Need Advice Buying DVC Direct

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In what way?

The only thing I can think of is whether you can book a night using points from two different contracts. You might need to transfer points between the contracts to be able to book using both sets of points. But that is allowed.

That’s what I’m unsure about? I just wanted to make sure you can use resell points for the 11 month bookings...I thought they had threatened to take that away?

...it would be something they would do when they overprice their own product - which they have.

I have also heard that they are rejecting ROFR on resells a lot more now...which is wrong if true

 

[nickys]

That’s what I’m unsure about? I just wanted to make sure you can use resell points for the 11 month bookings...I thought they had threatened to take that away?

...it would be something they would do when they overprice their own product - which they have.

I have also heard that they are rejecting ROFR on resells a lot more now...which is wrong if true

They cannot stop resale owners booking at 11 months at existing resorts.

What does rejecting ROFR on resells mean. Either Disney takes the ROFR or the resale purchase passes ROFR. Neither of which is rejecting anything. They are free to take any contract they like. If they have a demand for points at the sold out resorts they take contracts under ROFR, that’s how they get the points. It isn’t wrong, it’s how it works.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They cannot stop resale owners booking at 11 months at existing resorts.

What does rejecting ROFR on resells mean. Either Disney takes the ROFR or the resale purchase passes ROFR. Neither of which is rejecting anything. They are free to take any contract they like. If they have a demand for points at the sold out resorts they take contracts under ROFR, that’s how they get the points. It isn’t wrong, it’s how it works.

A tend if more ROFR could mean they are moving to squeeze the resale market to drive back to their hyper priced direct sales.

I’ve heard of two people get blocked from buying resale recently and resell “market” price...I think it was Saratoga at around $100 and Dakl at $115.

Somewhat unrelated...but interesting to watch. If they're blocking resells...could mean more restrictions are coming.

 

[nickys]

A tend if more ROFR could mean they are moving to squeeze the resale market to drive back to their hyper priced direct sales.

I’ve heard of two people get blocked from buying resale recently and resell “market” price...I think it was Saratoga at around $100 and Dakl at $115.

Somewhat unrelated...but interesting to watch. If they're blocking resells...could mean more restrictions are coming.

ROFR is how they get points.

They stopped taking anything on ROFR during the closure and for a month or so after, as the CMs were on furlough. When they started again they were taking a lot of Saratoga points - which makes complete sense because when a lot of people buy direct they want the cheapest option.

So yes, they are taking a lot of Saratoga points in ROFR. That does not make it wrong. And I see no connection to restrictions either, it’s just to build up a bank of SSR points because that’s what people are wanting to buy. Once they have what they feel they need in reserve, they’ll go back to just taking what they need to fulfil waitlist demand.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

ROFR is how they get points.

They stopped taking anything on ROFR during the closure and for a month or so after, as the CMs were on furlough. When they started again they were taking a lot of Saratoga points - which makes complete sense because when a lot of people buy direct they want the cheapest option.

So yes, they are taking a lot of Saratoga points in ROFR. That does not make it wrong. And I see no connection to restrictions either, it’s just to build up a bank of SSR points because that’s what people are wanting to buy. Once they have what they feel they need in reserve, they’ll go back to just taking what they need to fulfil waitlist demand.

You’re agreeing with me...your just taking their side. It’s ok...difference of opinion. They really shouldn’t take things on ROFR if the prices are legitimate.

Selling Saratoga to people who somehow can’t figure out they’re being overcharged for used contract just doesn’t sit well with me. But then again...I tend to be a “realist”. I don’t assume anyone else agrees with me.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

You’re agreeing with me...your just taking their side. It’s ok...difference of opinion. They really shouldn’t take things on ROFR if the prices are legitimate.

Selling Saratoga to people who somehow can’t figure out they’re being overcharged for used contract just doesn’t sit well with me. But then again...I tend to be a “realist”. I don’t assume anyone else agrees with me.

So to the seller, what do they care if the contract they are selling goes to Disney via ROFR, or to someone else? They are getting the price that they are asking for, and there are plenty of other SSR contracts available for other buyers. Oh, and we have bought all of our points at SSR direct, so that we can split them up among our 2 kids sometime in the future, and they don't have to worry about any restrictions.

I will say, though, that our next purchase will be via resale, probably at BWV, to ensure we can get in at 11 months for F&W or Christmas every year. Yes, we know it expires in 2042, but I'll be in my 80's by that time, and doubtful we'll be making many trips there by then anyway, at it is probably our favorite resort now.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So to the seller, what do they care if the contract they are selling goes to Disney via ROFR, or to someone else? They are getting the price that they are asking for, and there are plenty of other SSR contracts available for other buyers. Oh, and we have bought all of our points at SSR direct, so that we can split them up among our 2 kids sometime in the future, and they don't have to worry about any restrictions.

I will say, though, that our next purchase will be via resale, probably at BWV, to ensure we can get in at 11 months for F&W or Christmas every year. Yes, we know it expires in 2042, but I'll be in my 80's by that time, and doubtful we'll be making many trips there by then anyway, at it is probably our favorite resort now.

I think it depends on what price ddc is paying for it?

I’ve never heard the details of a direct to Disney dump? (They do love defaults though...it’s like repoing a new car)

As long as they give a good price...not sure I would care?
But if they give you $50 a point and then turn it around and sell it used to a lemming “direct” (30% used for double the price) for $142...then that’s a little crass (not that they’d care about that)

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I think it depends on what price ddc is paying for it?

I’ve never heard the details of a direct to Disney dump? (They do love defaults though...it’s like repoing a new car)

As long as they give a good price...not sure I would care?
But if they give you $50 a point and then turn it around and sell it used to a lemming “direct” (30% used for double the price) for $142...then that’s a little crass (not that they’d care about that)

I was under the impression that if Disney does exercise the ROFR, that they have to pay the advertised price, or at least negotiate with the seller. I do not believe they can dictate a price, as if they did, you can bet the sellers would be screaming loud and clear about it all over social media.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I was under the impression that if Disney does exercise the ROFR, that they have to pay the advertised price, or at least negotiate with the seller. I do not believe they can dictate a price, as if they did, you can bet the sellers would be screaming loud and clear about it all over social media.

It’s honestly something I’ve never heard anything about? That’s “rare”

But your right...people would scream.

I think Disney takes a lot of points on credit defaults. I know it happened with ALOT More contracts years ago than the “membership” would like to believe.

 

[nickys]

I was under the impression that if Disney does exercise the ROFR, that they have to pay the advertised price, or at least negotiate with the seller. I do not believe they can dictate a price, as if they did, you can bet the sellers would be screaming loud and clear about it all over social media.

Yes this ^^^^^

It makes no odds to the seller. If a contract is taken in ROFR the seller gets their asking price. The broker gets their commission. The only person losing out is the person who hoped to buy.

And of course the owner may get more than what they were offered by the buyer, in fact right now I’d put money on that being the case. Many would-be buyers are making low ball offers at the moment.

@Sirwalterraleigh , I have to say your (lack of) knowledge of how DVC works seems to be based purely on your disdain for them at the moment, and it isn’t helpful to anyone.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I was under the impression that if Disney does exercise the ROFR, that they have to pay the advertised price, or at least negotiate with the seller. I do not believe they can dictate a price, as if they did, you can bet the sellers would be screaming loud and clear about it all over social media.

You're correct, the ROFR means DVC has the right to match the sale price and buy the contract back at that price. If I agree to sell my AKL contract for $120/point then DVC can either match that $120/point or let the sale go through. They can't exercise their ROFR to block the private sale and then turn around and only offer me $115/point. So for the seller, there's no difference. They get the same amount of money no matter what. The ones who lose out are the people looking to buy resale, since DVC can match any price (and, unless it's too close to their current direct sale price, there's really no reason for them not to do so during normal economic times) and I believe they have 30 days to decide, so a buyer can think they found a contract and then lose it on Day 30 and have to start their search all over again.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

It’s honestly something I’ve never heard anything about? That’s “rare”

But your right...people would scream.

I think Disney takes a lot of points on credit defaults. I know it happened with ALOT More contracts years ago than the “membership” would like to believe.

Well, for example, Disney sold 6,512 points at SSR just last month. While there are points from defaults, I would say that the majority came from ROFR. They also sold 8,459 at OKW in September, so people are buying direct.

 

[nickys]

You’re agreeing with me...your just taking their side. It’s ok...difference of opinion. They really shouldn’t take things on ROFR if the prices are legitimate.

Selling Saratoga to people who somehow can’t figure out they’re being overcharged for used contract just doesn’t sit well with me. But then again...I tend to be a “realist”. I don’t assume anyone else agrees with me.

No, believe me I am most definitely not agreeing with you.

DVC know there are people wanting to buy at the sold out resorts and also want to buy direct. Maybe to get perks and to match what they already have bought resale. Why on earth would DVC pass up that opportunity?

And ROFR is how they get those points to sell. Why should DVC “really not take things on ROFR if the prices are legitimate”? They get nothing for that sale if it goes through, legitimate price or not.

Now clearly if there are 10 SSR contracts for sale today and DVC want to acquire 500 points, then they will take the lowest priced contracts. But if all those contracts are at a similar price they will take the ones they want.

And when DVC sells a contract it isn’t a “used contract”. It’s a direct purchase that comes with the right to certain benefits. And for smaller contracts it’s often better value to buy direct. In fact there really isn’t even anything that warrants a resale contract as a “used contract”. This isn’t selling a car, which has 80k miles on the clock and ripped leather seats. Buying SSR now gets you a brand spanking new refurbished room.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, for example, Disney sold 6,512 points at SSR just last month. While there are points from defaults, I would say that the majority came from ROFR. They also sold 8,459 at OKW in September, so people are buying direct.

That’s a lot of points at those prices...but I believe it. I will restate that NO ONE should buy now...for god’s sakes why??

No, believe me I am most definitely not agreeing with you.

DVC know there are people wanting to buy at the sold out resorts and also want to buy direct. Maybe to get perks and to match what they already have bought resale. Why on earth would DVC pass up that opportunity?

And ROFR is how they get those points to sell. Why should DVC “really not take things on ROFR if the prices are legitimate”? They get nothing for that sale if it goes through, legitimate price or not.

Now clearly if there are 10 SSR contracts for sale today and DVC want to acquire 500 points, then they will take the lowest priced contracts. But if all those contracts are at a similar price they will take the ones they want.

And when DVC sells a contract it isn’t a “used contract”. It’s a direct purchase that comes with the right to certain benefits. And for smaller contracts it’s often better value to buy direct. In fact there really isn’t even anything that warrants a resale contract as a “used contract”. This isn’t selling a car, which has 80k miles on the clock and ripped leather seats. Buying SSR now gets you a brand spanking new refurbished room.

Yeah...not gonna dive to deep into the weeds. I’m well aware of all the DVC “details”...with the exception of ROFR stuff I’ve been asking about here.

When the contract was registered...those points had a defined termination point. Give or take 48-52 ish years.

Just because they write a new one for 34 (Saratoga)...didn’t mean it’s “new”...it’s significantly reduced. Really no need as a consumer to be carried off on the shield for this one.
It also can lead people into believing their “value” is better than it is on places such as boards. Not everyone is a Disney nerd like you or I.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

@Sirwalterraleigh , I have to say your (lack of) knowledge of how DVC works seems to be based purely on your disdain for them at the moment, and it isn’t helpful to anyone.

And I have to say that you’re incorrect here. I respectfully leave it stated as that.

This is snit. I’ll pause the disdain (fair) if every single disagreement on opinion (that’s what this ROFR ultimately comes back to after the process is established...which I’m learning about today) didn’t come off as snit (Also fair). That’s unfortunate.

There’s really no “battle” going on here...don’t create one.

 

[havoc315]

Yes this ^^^^^

It makes no odds to the seller. If a contract is taken in ROFR the seller gets their asking price. The broker gets their commission. The only person losing out is the person who hoped to buy.

And of course the owner may get more than what they were offered by the buyer, in fact right now I’d put money on that being the case. Many would-be buyers are making low ball offers at the moment.

@Sirwalterraleigh , I have to say your (lack of) knowledge of how DVC works seems to be based purely on your disdain for them at the moment, and it isn’t helpful to anyone.

No, they don't get their "asking price." It's a right of refusal -- So they get the right to accept or refuse the price that was negotiated with the buyer.
So if they initially asked for $150 per point..
But then they accepted a low ball offer of $120 per point.... Then Disney has the right to refuse that $120 per point price.

So the owner/seller will get the same as they would have gotten from the buyer. Broker gets the same commission. But the buyer gets nothing. But the owner/seller won't get more than they would have gotten from the seller.

 

[nickys]

No, they don't get their "asking price." It's a right of refusal -- So they get the right to accept or refuse the price that was negotiated with the buyer.
So if they initially asked for $150 per point..
But then they accepted a low ball offer of $120 per point.... Then Disney has the right to refuse that $120 per point price.

So the owner/seller will get the same as they would have gotten from the buyer. Broker gets the same commission. But the buyer gets nothing. But the owner/seller won't get more than they would have gotten from the seller.

Ah, good point.

But DVC do have to match that actual offer price. What they cannot do is then pay an even lower amount, as was being suggested.

 

[havoc315]

Ah, good point.

But DVC do have to match that actual offer price. What they cannot do is then pay an even lower amount, as was being suggested.

Absolutely correct. Once the seller accepts an offer, they are guaranteed with getting that price either from the buyer or from Disney (absent something happening where the buyer defaults).

And Disney has a couple reasons to be active in the ROFR market:
1 -- they want to obtain points in "sold out" resorts so they can continue to sell "direct" contracts for those resorts.
2 -- They don't want re-sale prices getting too low which discourages direct purchases. (there may be a buyer who is willing to pay direct $170 over used $130 in order to get the direct perks, but if it became $170 vs $85, they would go re-sale).
3 -- Assuming there is adequate demand to sale at the direct price, that's easy profit for Disney, buying back at the discounted re-sale and just re-selling it as new.