My thoughts on "Song of the South"

[216bruce]

The film isn't outwardly hateful or demeaning in its portrayal of African Americans and race. It does, however, enforce a number of stereotypes that have been proven untrue and defeating to a number of people. The film is largely out-of-date in how it portrays the Uncle Remus character, and I really don't see how it can be considered anything but racist.

It's a fascinating study on a film that simply is stuck in a less-informed and ignorant time.

I'll gladly give you "inaccurate", "out of date" and even begrudgingly admit that it fosters stereotypes by letting them exist. 'Racist' implies that there was an intent to in some way harm, belittle or prove superiority over a person or a particular racial group due to their race. This film doesn't do that. Is it accurate? No. Is it racist? Also no.
If we go by a film's accuracy in portrayal of race then pretty much any film that features a portrayal of Native Americans, African Americans, Mexicans, etc. made up until very, very recently is then 'racist'. That paints with a very broad brush. So, "Zorro' is also racist? "Davey Crockett"? Both are inaccurate in their portray of racial or ethnic groups and both are still widely available on home video and still on television (I watch Zorro on many mornings).
I really don't want to argue, but the use of 'racist' is a pretty strong accusation and used very loosely these days. In doing so we really water it down and when something is truly racist, the word and it's connotation loses significance.
Have a good day.

 

[Tony Perkis]

I'll gladly give you "inaccurate", "out of date" and even begrudgingly admit that it fosters stereotypes by letting them exist. 'Racist' implies that there was an intent to in some way harm, belittle or prove superiority over a person or a particular racial group due to their race. This film doesn't do that. Is it accurate? No. Is it racist? Also no.
If we go by a film's accuracy in portrayal of race then pretty much any film that features a portrayal of Native Americans, African Americans, Mexicans, etc. made up until very, very recently is then 'racist'. That paints with a very broad brush. So, "Zorro' is also racist? "Davey Crockett"? Both are inaccurate in their portray of racial or ethnic groups and both are still widely available on home video and still on television (I watch Zorro on many mornings).
I really don't want to argue, but the use of 'racist' is a pretty strong accusation and used very loosely these days. In doing so we really water it down and when something is truly racist, the word and it's connotation loses significance.
Have a good day.

Just like nearly everything ever, the meaning and scope of the term "racism" now reaches beyond the definition of simply being hateful, directly mean-spirited, and discriminatory in nature. Blanket stereotyping, playing on clichés, and enforcing actions and behaviors that are not consistent with the culture as a whole can cause damage, as well. When a film portrays these behaviors and actions the way "Song of the South" does, it creates negative connotations that viewers can take at face value and make judgments on, all stemming from the filmmakers' ignorance.

Your current viewpoint of the word and the kind of harm that seemingly "harmless" stereotyping can cause to a group of people, just like the film itself, is out of date.

By the way, I hate to tell you this, but "gay" no longer means simply "happy".

 

[Californian Elitist]

I'll gladly give you "inaccurate", "out of date" and even begrudgingly admit that it fosters stereotypes by letting them exist. 'Racist' implies that there was an intent to in some way harm, belittle or prove superiority over a person or a particular racial group due to their race. This film doesn't do that. Is it accurate? No. Is it racist? Also no.
If we go by a film's accuracy in portrayal of race then pretty much any film that features a portrayal of Native Americans, African Americans, Mexicans, etc. made up until very, very recently is then 'racist'. That paints with a very broad brush. So, "Zorro' is also racist? "Davey Crockett"? Both are inaccurate in their portray of racial or ethnic groups and both are still widely available on home video and still on television (I watch Zorro on many mornings).
I really don't want to argue, but the use of 'racist' is a pretty strong accusation and used very loosely these days. In doing so we really water it down and when something is truly racist, the word and it's connotation loses significance.
Have a good day.

Would you consider the "Coal Black" short racist?

 

[216bruce]

Just like nearly everything ever, the meaning and scope of the term "racism" now reaches beyond the definition of simply being hateful, directly mean-spirited, and discriminatory in nature. Blanket stereotyping, playing on clichés, and enforcing actions and behaviors that are not consistent with the culture as a whole can cause damage, as well. When a film portrays these behaviors and actions the way "Song of the South" does, it creates negative connotations that viewers can take at face value and make judgments on, all stemming from the filmmakers' ignorance.

Your current viewpoint of the word and the kind of harm that seemingly "harmless" stereotyping can cause to a group of people, just like the film itself, is out of date.

By the way, I hate to tell you this, but "gay" no longer means simply "happy".

No need to get snarky and judgmental with the last two sentences. Those are personal insults to me, someone you have never met and don't know at all...but if you insist on going that route...The film "Heavyweights" unfairly portrays overweight kids as buffoons and objects of ridicule even though they are the heroes of that movie (which I enjoyed immensely) and the goal of that movie is not just to entertain but to teach a lesson (same as in SOTS). As a former overweight kid, I took a lot of 'harmless' kidding about my weight as a boy, but I realize that the stereotypes of people portrayed in film and TV are not always intended as mean or anything like that. Sometimes they just exist and people can take them as they see fit. Picking a judgmental bully like Tony Perkis as your avatar seems appropriate. By the way, I have very close family members who are gay and am quite aware of the term. I assume (maybe incorrectly, and if so I apologize) that you figured I didn't know the term 'gay' or that word meaning can change over time because I am older (looked at my profile? I don't know). If so, then you are also stereotyping since you don't know me.

Finally, I was just presenting an opinion, one I considered a fair alternative to snap judgements on the film. It wasn't intended at you at all. I suggest you read "Who's Afraid of Song of the South" by noted Disney historian Jim Korkis. You may learn something about the history of the film and the lengths that Disney went to (there's that 'intent' thing again) to try to be fair in his portrayal of blacks. So, before you make convenient judgements on people and films get your facts straight. Otherwise, you are stereotyping and pre-judging. Don't bother responding, I've had enough ignorance and insults for the day. Once again, have a nice day.
Snark over.

 

[216bruce]

Would you consider the "Coal Black" short racist?

It's wildly inaccurate, embarrassingly so. Same as a lot of WWII era cartoons are in their portrayal of Japanese, Jews and even Germans. As I've never looked into the creation of it or the intent of it's creators, I can't say if it's the product of racist thought as I can't look into the souls of others. I am embarrassed watching it and it makes me uncomfortable to do so. I don't get that feeling from SOTS, which I have read a lot about and is, in my opinion, much gentler and much less offensive in it's portrayal of blacks in the Reconstruction era South.

 

[Californian Elitist]

It's wildly inaccurate, embarrassingly so. Same as a lot of WWII era cartoons are in their portrayal of Japanese, Jews and even Germans. As I've never looked into the creation of it or the intent of it's creators, I can't say if it's the product of racist thought as I can't look into the souls of others. I am embarrassed watching it and it makes me uncomfortable to do so. I don't get that feeling from SOTS, which I have read a lot about and is, in my opinion, much gentler and much less offensive in it's portrayal of blacks in the Reconstruction era South.

Interesting. Well, as stated already, racism has come to mean a lot more than just hatred of another race, feeling superior to another race, etc. Racism can mean insensitivity towards another race, cultural appropriation, playing into stereotypes of another race, inaccurate representation of a race, and so on. The "Coal Black" short is racist. So is Song of the South. Now, as a Black, I will admit watching shorts like "Coal Black" vs. watching Song of the South don't compare, as I'm greatly more offended by the shorts. In saying that, the depiction of African Americans in Song of the South doesn't please me either. Portraying Blacks as happy-go-lucky, eager and happy to please their White masters/associates, without a care in the world about their position in mid 19th century Southern America is offensive and insensitive. Disney is responsible for multiple racist scenes in some of their films.

In saying all of this, I don't believe Song of the South should be banned from video release, but Disney will most likely never undo that.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Finally, I was just presenting an opinion, one I considered a fair alternative to snap judgements on the film. It wasn't intended at you at all. I suggest you read "Who's Afraid of Song of the South" by noted Disney historian Jim Korkis. You may learn something about the history of the film and the lengths that Disney went to (there's that 'intent' thing again) to try to be fair in his portrayal of blacks. So, before you make convenient judgements on people and films get your facts straight. Otherwise, you are stereotyping and pre-judging. Don't bother responding, I've had enough ignorance and insults for the day. Once again, have a nice day.
Snark over.

For the time and environment, Walt Disney and co. may have felt that they were going above and beyond to accurately and fairly portray African Americans. Time, however, doesn't allow them to be shielded from racism claims just because of the ignorance of the culture. The film has aged incredibly poorly because of how it portrays that culture. If there was a bit of irony and subtext to those particular characters (a la Django Unchained, Blazing Saddles), then you could make the argument that the film isn't racist. But that it wasn't the intention, so Song of the South is racist.

It's not mean-spirited, hateful, and discriminatory like films such as Birth of a Nation is, but Song of the South is actually blissfully and naively unaware of the racial stereotyping it's portraying. Maybe that's due to being a product of the times, but despite Walt Disney's best efforts, the film is stuck in a less informed, more naive time.

The film shouldn't be banned, as it's a good example of a film that was the product of its own time and is a part of history. Erasing history is deceitful and very wrong; I don't have to agree with the subject matter to identify that.

 

[Bairstow]

Speaking of uncomfortable Disney cartoons...
Go to 2:30 if you're impatient.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Speaking of uncomfortable Disney cartoons...
Go to 2:30 if you're impatient.

Don't forget these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=59&v=NDO-PMiA3ZI

 

[prberk]

You all won't believe what I saw today when I happened to read YESTERDAY's "Weekend" section from my local newspaper, the Richmond Times-Dispatch. I highlighted the fact that it was yesterday because of what it said was set to happen yesterday ("today" in the article). Can't believe I missed it.

But here is the article, which in its entirety also fits this thread, unfortunately in many respects:

http://www.richmond.com/entertainme...cle_3c53befb-b2e5-59a1-ac16-71963ce680c2.html

Southern Film Festival balances traditions and stereotypes
By KATHERINE CALOS Richmond Times-Dispatch | Posted: Wednesday, September 9, 2015 10:30 pm

The tension between Southern musical traditions and Southern stereotypes will underlie this year’s Southern Film Festival today through Saturday at several venues near Virginia Commonwealth University.
Live gospel and bluegrass will mix with classic films on the theme of “Screening Southern Music: Exploring Musical Traditions & Stereotypes in Popular Film.”
“Sometimes stereotypes emerge out of traditions,” said festival organizer Emilie Raymond, “but a stereotype is usually an extreme caricature of a tradition and oftentimes they are negative. They will somehow twist the tradition into something that’s beyond the control of the people who had established that tradition in the first place, and twist it in a way that maybe they don’t approve of. It happens a lot in popular culture and especially in songs.”
“Song of the South,” Walt Disney’s controversial 1946 live action-animated film, leads off the festival at 6 p.m. today at The Depot, 814 W. Broad St. Kathy Merlock Jackson, former president of the American Culture Association and professor at Virginia Wesleyan College, will include film clips with her talk, “You Can’t Run Away from Trouble,” named after an Uncle Remus phrase in the film. The full film hasn’t been shown by Disney in 25 years.
On Friday, the 1919 silent movie “Heart o’ the Hills,” starring Mary Pickford, will be shown at the Leslie Cheek Theater at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts at 6:30 p.m., accompanied by music from The Hot Seats. Admission is free with VCU ID and $8 for others.
Saturday begins with the 1958 film “King Creole,” starring Elvis Presley, at 10 a.m. at Sticky Rice, 2232 W. Main St. Admission costs $8 and includes a breakfast buffet.
That afternoon, the Grace Street Theater, 934 W. Grace St., will have free showings of “Porgy and Bess” at 2 and “We Shall Overcome” at 5. Raymond, who’s an associate history professor at VCU, will introduce the first film, and Christopher Brooks, VCU anthropology professor, will lead a talk-back. After the Harry Belafonte documentary on the sources of the civil rights anthem, the VCU Black Awakening Choir will perform.
The festival is presented by VCU, Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, and co-sponsored by the Art Deco Society of Virginia and Virginia Opera.