My Issue With Themed Lands Built Around Franchises

[righttrack]

As for the lands vs attraction gravitas, only certain things rise to the level of "lands". I'd argue Star Wars does mostly based on the success they have had with Star Wars in the parks. Look at Star Wars Weekends as an example of that. I think it's SWW that led us here more than the rebirth of the franchise. Harry Potter in Universal pushed them in this direction as well. As for Avatar, it's the biggest movie, no doubt. I question it's value as a "land" vs a few attractions. It's a hedge on future results rather than present ones. It's an investment that they didn't want to let slip through their fingers. James Cameron is likely an excellent creative partner as well with proven track record. It comes down to transitions. With the "studios" theme, they could effectively put disjointed things together because it's all "Hollywood". When you take the "studios" theme away like in California Adventure or even likely how they will rebrand the studios park in FL, then you're stuck with a disjointed park and doing the transitions between attractions gets harder and harder. The lands concept kind of fixes that. More than one ride/attraction = land vs attraction alone I guess, even if it is a mini-land. It kind of looks like a mess without that. I give them credit for trying to do a better job at this than Universal.

 

[Dave B]

I disagree. It has to be in the fries as I hate ketchup but will still steal McDonald's fries from my own children.

Oh but the fries use to be SO much better, but still good now

 

[Master Yoda]

Oh but the fries use to be SO much better, but still good now

That they were. Making them vegetarian was not a positive move.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Avatar/ Pandora is NOT a franchise...what if the next few movies flop?

It won’t even matter if any new movies are released. The attractions speak for themselves and don’t need any tie in to a movie. FoB has proven to be an awesome ride all on its own and no one cares if there is a movie behind it. It just doesn’t matter.

 

[HansGruber]

It won’t even matter if any new movies are released. The attractions speak for themselves and don’t need any tie in to a movie. FoB has proven to be an awesome ride all on its own and no one cares if there is a movie behind it. It just doesn’t matter.

I don't disagree, but why waste money on the branding of the land then?

 

[HansGruber]

Because people need to come. Obviously, they've done market studies, surveys, etc. Why is this so difficult to understand?

<sigh>

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I don't disagree, but why waste money on the branding of the land then?

There was no way that James Cameron was going to let it be built without some branding. I don’t believe it is a waste of money at all.

 

[HansGruber]

There was no way that James Cameron was going to let it be built without some branding. I don’t believe it is a waste of money at all.

Why have ANY Avatar branding then? Just build a generic land with individually-branded rides. You even stated:

The attractions speak for themselves and don’t need any tie in to a movie.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

The horse's carcass has pretty much rotted to nothing, but people are still whacking away. This part of the forum should be called "General B****ing and Moaning About Every Minor Detail That People Don't Like About WDW That Breaks Down Into Petty Arguing And Personal Attacks".

Ah yes what we need is more "what's your favorite snack at the World" posts.
I bet you think the Dining Plan was created to save you money too and improve the quality of your dining experience?

 

[Club Cooloholic]

YOU think the approach is creatively stifling, you may have simple outgrown disney. That's not Disney's fault. . Many, many others do not. that's where the introspective exploration comes in.
Not sure the Mcdonalds analogy is appropriate. No one in the right mind believes Mcdonalds is a "quality" product. It's tasty, priced cheaply and quick. No one has ever said Mcky D's burgers were the best burger, although I swear they must put crack in the fry grease because I am addicted to them.

And while popular does not exclusively mean quality, there usually is an "element" of expertise to them.

Paint by numbers is your bag...ok no blank canvas for you.

 

[winstongator]

YOU think the approach is creatively stifling, you may have simple outgrown disney. That's not Disney's fault. . Many, many others do not. that's where the introspective exploration comes in.
Not sure the Mcdonalds analogy is appropriate. No one in the right mind believes Mcdonalds is a "quality" product. It's tasty, priced cheaply and quick. No one has ever said Mcky D's burgers were the best burger, although I swear they must put crack in the fry grease because I am addicted to them.

And while popular does not exclusively mean quality, there usually is an "element" of expertise to them.

malcolm gladwell has a podcast episode on why McD fries just aren’t what they used to be.

http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/19-mcdonalds-broke-my-heart

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I have said it from the beginning...all that matters long term is the quality of the attractions. Build good attractions and the people will come regardless of the IP.

Animal kingdom was opened horribly underbuilt and remained so for 18 years...

I don’t think it’s about the rides or the land...regardless of the quality

 

[eliza61nyc]

Paint by numbers is your bag...ok no blank canvas for you.

lol, hey you get no argument from me. I am definitely not artistic in any shape, form or fashion BUT i'm also not one to pretend that I am the preeminent authority on theme park design. Again I ask, why do you get to decide what is good and what is not good.
That's what I don't get. was there a survey that I missed?

How are all you folks so specialized in what is ride quality? It's like a world or Robin Leaches for Disneyworld

Now I have not been to TSL yet. I'll be there in late August so I'll reserve my opinion to I'm actually there.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

lol, hey you get no argument from me. I am definitely not artistic in any shape, form or fashion BUT i'm also not one to pretend that I am the preeminent authority on theme park design. Again I ask, why do you get to decide what is good and what is not good.
That's what I don't get. was there a survey that I missed?

How are all you folks so specialized in what is ride quality? It's like a world or Robin Leaches for Disneyworld

Now I have not been to TSL yet. I'll be there in late August so I'll reserve my opinion to I'm actually there.

I gave an opinion, obviously I have no say at all in how anything is done. And really you didn't need to explain your lack of creativity.

 

[Raineman]

Ah yes what we need is more "what's your favorite snack at the World" posts.
I bet you think the Dining Plan was created to save you money too and improve the quality of your dining experience?

See, the thing is that I think healthy debate is good-but there are way too many people on here that don’t know how to do that. This forum is a microcosm of society in 2018, in that too many people think that a differing opinion than their own is a personal attack on them, and will react like a spoiled 5 year old that doesn’t get what they want. Add to that the fact that there are a number of posters on here who decry EVERYTHING that Disney does with respect to their theme parks, even complaining about attractions/shows/lands that are not complete or ones that they have not yet experienced. I would hate to see how miserable some people are on here in their day to day lives if something as unimportant in the grand scheme of things as a theme park makes them react so negatively.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I gave an opinion, obviously I have no say at all in how anything is done. And really you didn't need to explain your lack of creativity.

lol, Yes you did a long with the veiled insult about my artistry. or was that crack about paint by numbers posing as wit.
Well aren't you just precious.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Why have ANY Avatar branding then? Just build a generic land with individually-branded rides. You even stated:

Quite obviously, Disney management liked the idea. They could not build a banshee ride without permission.

As far as my other statement, you know that I meant that it doesn’t matter if new movies are released or even whether they are successful as the land will continue to do well on its own.

 

[Raineman]

You had me until your last line - which seems, to me, to be an attack. I'm sure most are too oblivious to be miserable. I'm rather miserable and I have good and bad things to say but I'll never say to someone, "I feel sorry for you for feeling that way." Good god, get off the cross, Madonna needs a new crucifix necklace.

Maybe I didn't phrase that last line the best way, but the gist of what I was trying to say was that we are all dealing with negative aspects of our lives-some more than others-and there is so much hate and anger and negativity in politics, in entertainment, in the press, that it would be nice if this forum could be a sort of sanctuary from that. If this was a forum discussing politics or social issues, you would expect to see that kind of thing, but discussions about a theme park should not lead to some of the crap we see on here. I myself am dealing with some things in my personal life that are not pleasant, but I make an effort to not let that creep into my posts here. I will admit, I've seen numerous posts on here that have "triggered" me somewhat (I really don't want to use that word, but it fits), so I try to not respond at all, or wait until I can respond without being negative while still getting my point across.

 

[HansGruber]

Quite obviously, Disney management liked the idea. They could not build a banshee ride without permission.

As far as my other statement, you know that I meant that it doesn’t matter if new movies are released or even whether they are successful as the land will continue to do well on its own.

But you're glossing over the fact that theming/ branding is appealing to a certain portion of visitors.
It doesn't need to be a "banshee" ride. FoP, the ride itself, can be ported over many other brands.

The execution of Pandora (the land) will draw interest. However, Avatar, the franchise (if I can even call it that), is weak.
Disney could have gotten more interest if they picked a better franchise. However, if the sequels fare well, perhaps the franchise will take off.
Definitely a risk being taken by Disney.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Definitely a risk being taken by Disney.

And that’s where we differ. If the ride was only so-so, I would tend to agree with you. Considering that the ride has a 120 minute wait time, the longest of any attraction right now, speaks to the fact there is very little risk of this area not being popular in the very long term.