Movie Studio Tariffs

[brideck]

That depends on how you define the “entertainment industry.” Legacy media conglomerates are having a tough time (WBD, Paramount). Tech companies dabbling in entertainment as a way to disrupt another industry? They’re doing fine; Netflix is more the latter than the former. Disney and Comcast are more the former than the latter (though with Comcast it’s murkier given their broadband business).

For sure, there are winners and losers when you look at individual companies, but there seems to be more visual entertainment produced today overall than at any time in (at least) recent history, so more people are employed in the creation of that stuff than before. Just not specifically in LA.

So I guess I'm just equating health of industry to number of jobs, regardless of location.

 

[TP2000]

So much for location shoots I guess then, no more movies set in other parts of the world actually being filmed in those parts of the world under your plan.

I would think you could carve out a scenario where outdoor location shoots were exempt, but studio work was not exempt.

I can't think of why a Hollywood film crew has to fly to England to shoot a dining room scene in a London soundstage, when that same dining room scene could be filmed in one of the empty soundstages in Burbank or Studio City, can you?

Also we didn't need a threat of tariffs to be levied for states to try to fight for movie productions to be filmed in the US. Many states, California too, have enacted or have plans to increase the tax credits for productions filmed in their states. 28 of the 50 states have tax credits enacted or plans to with many such as California having legislation currently in process to increase them. BTW, this is the same type of tax credit that the UK has which you seem to question.

You don't have to remind me what a mess California is. I moved out of state because of it. And everything is cheaper outside of California, from taxes to groceries to gas to haircuts. I think it's healthy for Georgia to compete against California for the movie business, just as I think it's healthy for Texas to compete against California for the computer business, or South Carolina to compete against Michigan for the car business.

The 50 individual state laboratories for democracy and their free market economies have worked wonders for our nation's development.

The difference is that those are all American workers. I value them more than British workers or Japanese workers, and I think us Americans should support our fellow Americans. So long as the product they are selling is world-class though. I am not advocating for lowering standards just to keep Americans employed in make-work programs.

 

[TP2000]

Just wanted to point out - you’ve long decried Pixar with its bougie Californian overpaid employees and praised the offshore animation (and budgeting) of Illumination.

I don't actually know what Illumination is, outside of the context of Epcot's water shows. I assume it's a cartoon studio? And I assume, if one were to do a Search, I once made a comparison to a cartoon from Illumination that did well at the box office but was budgeted far below that summer's offering from Pixar or Walt Disney Animation?

I just did a search myself of any time I used the word "Illumination" on this website, and it's all Epcot references from 15 years ago. My God, I've spent a lot of time on this site.

That said, I have long (well, at least for a few years) decried Pixar with its expensively wasteful and duplicitous Emeryville studio who seems to be pumping out more and more animation that is hardly different than the style of stuff being pumped out now by WDAS in Burbank. Looking at Strange World or Wish, how is that computer generated animation different than Pixar stylistically or thematically now? Or, why couldn't computer animators working for the WDAS cost center numbers have done Elemental?

In the 1990's and 2000's, there was a clear difference between Pixar and WDAS. But now? They're almost indistinguishable, especially in this Post-Lassetter age. Why not merge both studios together in Burbank and sell the Emeryville lot to a homeless shelter developer?

It would seem you’ve done a 180 on your free market opinion. This won’t improve film budgets, which has been something you’ve otherwise long been an advocate of.

Nothing wrong with changing your stance, but just want to say I was ironically on this other side of the argument the whole time, as a non-American.

Not quite. I love the idea of Georgia competing against California for business. It keeps both states sharper.

I just spent a couple weeks in San Diego. The place is a dump now. And the homeless meth zombies are now invading La Jolla! That was unthinkable just a decade ago. And Los Angeles is even worse than San Diego, financially and socially. The California dream is long gone, and its sliding into an abyss of societal decay and misery.

The Hollywood entertainment industry has collapsed in on itself, very few people in LA can find work in that industry, and the entire company town is dying. Whatever our government can do to restore that industry that America literally invented itself would be a good thing, in my opinion.

A tariff on a Hollywood studio movie that could have been filmed in a Burbank soundstage, but instead was made on a soundstage in Europe or Australia or Canada, might be a darn good way to not just stop the bleeding, but regain lost jobs and industry in the USA.

Especially in LA, which has become an economic disaster the past few years. And it's getting worse there.

Struggling Entertainment Workers Are Fleeing Hollywood — but Some Employers Balk at Showbiz Backgrounds

As major companies cut costs and production continues to lag, professionals who have already achieved success in entertainment are applying for jobs in project management, marketing and even at Whole Foods.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

L.A. city budget shortfall grows to nearly $1 billion, with layoffs 'nearly inevitable'

Faced with a nearly $1-billion budget shortfall, the Los Angeles City Council met behind closed doors to take a fresh look at its salary agreements with labor unions.

www.latimes.com

 

[Agent H]

I don't actually know what Illumination is, outside of the context of Epcot's water shows. I assume it's a cartoon studio? And I assume, if one were to do a Search, I once made a comparison to a cartoon from Illumination that did well at the box office but was budgeted far below that summer's offering from Pixar or Walt Disney Animation?

I just did a search myself of any time I used the word "Illumination" on this website, and it's all Epcot references from 15 years ago. So fill me in.

They are the animation studio responsible for pumping out what feels like 20 despicable me movies. I think they’re pretty inarguably the lowest quality animation studio in Hollywood as of now.

 

[TP2000]

They are the animation studio responsible for pumping out what feels like 20 despicable me movies. I think they’re pretty inarguably the lowest quality animation studio in Hollywood as of now.

Okay, thank you. That helps. I honestly had no idea.

And I'm sure some of their titles have been used in box office discussions in the past few years in this forum, in the context of Burbank's bombs like Strange World or Wish or what have you.

 

[Agent H]

Okay, thank you. That helps. I honestly had no idea.

But I'm sure some of their titles have been used in box office discussions in the past few years in this forum, in the context of Burbank's bombs like Strange World or Wish or what have you.

If I recall correctly there’s posts in the wish thread comparing it to migration in terms of box office. As for strange world they released the second minions movie closer to lightyear then strange world.

 

[lazyboy97o]

“I don’t know who does what, but I’m sure it’s bad” is quite a take.

 

[TP2000]

If I recall correctly there’s posts in the wish thread comparing it to migration in terms of box office. As for strange world they released the second minions movie closer to lightyear then strange world.

Ah, Lightyear! How easily I forget the various mega-budget bombs the past few years, this time from Emeryville.

I pulled those three together for comparison and a memory refresher. No wonder I was droning on about merging Disney's two animation studios together under one Burbank roof in 2022. Just look at that box office! Oof! Although, according to The Numbers that Minions sequel was a Universal Studios picture. So I guess Uni may have distributed it for "Illumination"?

 

[Agent H]

Ah, Lightyear! How easily I forget the various mega-budget bombs the past few years, this time from Emeryville.

I pulled those three together for comparison and a memory refresher. No wonder I was droning on about merging Disney's two animation studios together under one Burbank roof in 2022. Just look at that box office! Oof! Although, according to The Numbers that Minions sequel was a Universal Studios picture. So I guess Uni may have distributed it for "Illumination"?

View attachment 857450

Illumination is owned by universal.

 

[TP2000]

Illumination is owned by universal.

Got it. Likely much the same way Pixar is owned by Disney.

I just don't ever remember us using that company name "Illumination" in discussions here back during all those bombs of 2022-2024. I do remember attributing some of the box office hits of that era to Universal Studios though. It was a rough few years for Burbank, that's for sure.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, they might be now.

The USA economy is service, not manufacturing, focused.

There might be a downside to this plan, just saying.

Well…that’s why we’re in the twilight zone…because when you “export” a service…you pay the fee for that service…you don’t then slap a tax out of thin air on top of it. This entire idea is archaic, disproven, and abandoned by most with a 4th grade education or above

The US is not being “ripped off”…nor has it been since the Boston tea party.

We have sold $36 trillion (big number) of our collective debt to mostly friends and allies around the world and basically let it be known they must hold it.

Not exactly the tactics of the “victim”

 

[Agent H]

Got it. Likely much the same way Pixar is owned by Disney.

I just don't ever remember us using that company name "Illumination" in discussions here back during all those bombs of 2022-2024. I do remember attributing some of the box office hits of that era to Universal Studios though. It was a rough few years for Burbank, that's for sure.

It kinda is and it kinda isn’t at the same time. If I remember correctly illumination was founded by universal around the late 2000s to detect cgi work for the movie hop. And once the first despicable me movie was released they never looked back.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Got it. Likely much the same way Pixar is owned by Disney.

I just don't ever remember us using that company name "Illumination" in discussions here back during all those bombs of 2022-2024. I do remember attributing some of the box office hits of that era to Universal Studios though. It was a rough few years for Burbank, that's for sure.

Illumination is the rebranded Comcast animation wing, right?

Didn’t they buy dreamworks prior to that?

 

[Agent H]

Illumination is the rebranded Comcast animation wing, right?

Didn’t they buy dreamworks prior to that?

illumination wasn’t rebranded as far I’m aware And universal bought dreamworks in 2016.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

illumination wasn’t rebranded as far I’m aware And universal bought dreamworks in 2016.

The head of fox animation left it, founded illumination, entered into a deal with uni, and then they bought dreamworks and integrated the two

Good research dive for me.

I tell you what….illumination has scored a ton of hits. Not as much as the two big names…but in a short time a solid #3

 

[Disney Irish]

I would think you could carve out a scenario where outdoor location shoots were exempt, but studio work was not exempt.

I can't think of why a Hollywood film crew has to fly to England to shoot a dining room scene in a London soundstage, when that same dining room scene could be filmed in one of the empty soundstages in Burbank or Studio City, can you?

Except its a slippery slope once you start making exceptions.

For example you have a movie like the upcoming Mission Impossible movie coming out at the end of May where almost the entire film is outdoor location shots. So it that exempt because it doesn't need indoor locations for a majority of its filming? And so doesn't it make more sense then for a movie like that to have any indoor location shots being done in one of the various countries where the outdoor shots are being done in order to save on production costs?

And if that is the line, outdoor location shots vs indoor sound stage shots, you're going to have more and more movies being shot primarily outdoors in order to get around any potential "tariff" once the film needs to be distributed in the US.

And this doesn't even bring up the large television production machine that is up in Toronto and other Canadian locations where a large portion of the US TV shows are filmed. Are those all exempt because they aren't large budget movies?

See its why this becomes a slippery slope, and how businesses can work around many of these potential unneeded "tariffs". And those that can't just pass on any "tariff" costs to the consumer (because its just a tax which is always ultimately paid by the US consumer in these situations), and we're worse off for it because everything becomes exorbitantly more expensive.

You don't have to remind me what a mess California is. I moved out of state because of it. And everything is cheaper outside of California, from taxes to groceries to gas to haircuts. I think it's healthy for Georgia to compete against California for the movie business, just as I think it's healthy for Texas to compete against California for the computer business, or South Carolina to compete against Michigan for the car business.

The 50 individual state laboratories for democracy and their free market economies have worked wonders for our nation's development.

The difference is that those are all American workers. I value them more than British workers or Japanese workers, and I think us Americans should support our fellow Americans. So long as the product they are selling is world-class though. I am not advocating for lowering standards just to keep Americans employed in make-work programs.

So that means you're not really for free market. Because free market is not limited to just the imaginary borders of the continental US.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

This is a move that will diminish good will and could impact the film industry negatively.

In recent years a lot of movies have gone out of their way to incorporate Chinese actors and locations, because the Chinese market is important to movie studios bottom line. It's one example of playing nice and supporting each other.

It's the height of arrogance to think actions that will harm people in other countries won't have consequences. There seems to be expectation that shifting all movie production domestically won't subsequently decrease demand elsewhere. We're not going to share in the making of movies whatsoever, but you're still going to buy our product. Sure.

If this was happening in a vacuum, and was just seen as supporting local industry, it might go over okay. As it is, it's just one more thing in a list of ways other countries are being alienated right now.

Tourism is down. Demand for USA manufactured goods is down. Will demand for media follow suit?

Shoring up domestic production isn't necessarily a bad thing, but this will be seen as punitive.

 

[Disney Irish]

This is a move that will diminish good will and could impact the film industry negatively.

In recent years a lot of movies have gone out of their way to incorporate Chinese actors and locations, because the Chinese market is important to movie studios bottom line. It's one example of playing nice and supporting each other.

It's the height of arrogance to think actions that will harm people in other countries won't have consequences. There seems to be expectation that shifting all movie production domestically won't subsequently decrease demand elsewhere. We're not going to share in the making of movies whatsoever, but you're still going to buy our product. Sure.

If this was happening in a vacuum, and was just seen as supporting local industry, it might go over okay. As it is, it's just one more thing in a list of ways other countries are being alienated right now.

Tourism is down. Demand for USA manufactured goods is down. Will demand for media follow suit?

Shoring up domestic production isn't necessarily a bad thing, but this will be seen as punitive.

Not to mention that China already limits US movies from coming in because of other non-movie factors. This is just going to severely limit or completely eliminate further US movies being shown in that country. Not to mention others that will also retaliate in kind for having US movie productions bring ripped out from under them.

The global economy is important to the US movie industry, if all limit the US movies being shown in their countries you'll have a whole lot of studios upset and pounding on the doors of DC because they can no longer get access to the global box office.

This is a dangerous game being played with real peoples lives.

 

[Dranth]

Well…that’s why we’re in the twilight zone…because when you “export” a service…you pay the fee for that service…you don’t then slap a tax out of thin air on top of it. This entire idea is archaic, disproven, and abandoned by most with a 4th grade education or above

The US is not being “ripped off”…nor has it been since the Boston tea party.

We have sold $36 trillion (big number) of our collective debt to mostly friends and allies around the world and basically let it be known they must hold it.

Not exactly the tactics of the “victim”

100%

The US has been setting the rules for financial markets (and more) and basically running the show since the late 1940s and benefiting from it immensely. I don't think a lot of people understand just how much better the US does than the entire rest of the world in good financial times AND in bad.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

100%

The US has been setting the rules for financial markets (and more) and basically running the show since the late 1940s and benefiting from it immensely. I don't think a lot of people understand just how much better the US does than the entire rest of the world in good financial times AND in bad.

I worked with a guy in an international business program (at a certain entertainment complex) from Spain in the 2001/2002 timeframe who very non-Chalantly said one day “America gets a cold…we always get the flu”

Very wise statement