More families of autistic kids sue Disney parks

[GhostHost1000]

No you can't because those children who are genuinely autistic can no longer visit Disney, period! I do not have a child or a relative who is autistic but the genuinely autistic need instant and unlimited access; it is just they way these kids are programmed. By Disney kowtowing to the GAC abusers by granting them the DAS and eliminating the GAC, they discriminated against the genuinely disabled who need instant and unlimited access.

Who decides which children of any kind "need instant access"? That is where the gray area lies

 

[Aqueeta]

Who decides which children of any kind "need instant access"? That is where the gray area lies

Believe me, it will be less of a gray area than how they determine who receives a DAS now. Have you ever seen a genuinely autistic person? You can spot them a mile away.

 

[ABQ]

Believe me, it will be less of a gray area than how they determine who receives a DAS now. Have you ever seen a genuinely autistic person? You can spot them a mile away.

I thought I had. Knowing you weren't asking me. But you keep using the term "genuine" to, I believe, refer to how acute their case may be. There are so many levels of acuity in autism. Perhaps one warrants more attention than the other and that is where this gets gray. If I'm correct, ADA regulations are in place to grant everyone the same level of access as the next person. In this current case, the committee seems to be faulting Disney for doing that, providing a blanket access system. No one answer will suffice, I guess.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Who decides which children of any kind "need instant access"? That is where the gray area lies

I don't think anyone needs instant access....

 

[Andrew C]

What type of power does this commission have? Is their ruling just a recommendation for it to go to the courts, or do they hold the same power as a court ruling would?

 

[jaklgreen]

I don't think anyone needs instant access....

Gonna have to say that I agree with you on this. This is a society, which means you are not the only person on the planet. EVERYONE, special needs or not, needs to learn to fit into society. And yes, if you read my previous posts you know we have an autistic child in our family. And we feel that we would not be helping that child in the long run by making the world revolve around her.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Gonna have to say that I agree with you on this. This is a society, which means you are not the only person on the planet. EVERYONE, special needs or not, needs to learn to fit into society. And yes, if you read my previous posts you know we have an autistic child in our family. And we feel that we would not be helping that child in the long run by making the world revolve around her.

Moreover, I can't see any medical issue that would cause Disney to have to go beyond the accommodations that they already give.

I feel for you and I realize the amount of patience that your situation requires.

They system isn't perfect but its fair, moreso then it used to be.

 

[jaklgreen]

What type of power does this commission have? Is their ruling just a recommendation for it to go to the courts, or do they hold the same power as a court ruling would?

From what I read, they can try to have you voluntarily do what they want you to do. If you do not they can cut off federal funding. Then the only other thing is if you are "non compliant" is turn you over to the department of Justice. Which would probably then go to a court. Which it already has. So, I can't see that it would do anything since a judge has already ruled on it.

 

[jaklgreen]

Moreover, I can't see any medical issue that would cause Disney to have to go beyond the accommodations that they already give.

I feel for you and I realize the amount of patience that your situation requires.

They system isn't perfect but its fair, moreso then it used to be.

Thank you. But that is life, is it not? We all have some kind of issues in our lives. You learn to deal with them. Wouldn't we all love to have perfect lives with all of the money that we want and no illness or injuries. When someone creates this Utopia, please sign me up. Our family has been through a lot and we know that no one owes us anything. If something prevents us from going somewhere or having something, then we move on. We do not feel like it is our "right" to go to WDW. Either it is financially impossible or we can not handle it due to a disability, oh well, that is life. You find something else to fulfill your life. And be very glad for what you have! We never went to WDW as a child. My parents were immigrants and worked their butts off. We grew up just fine. I know we all want to go but if you can't, find something else for you children to be excited about.

 

[wdwfan22]

I don't think anyone needs instant access....

I agree 100%!! If you do need instant access then you probably shouldn't be in a theme park as it is.

 

[note2001]

I agree 100%!! If you do need instant access then you probably shouldn't be in a theme park as it is.

We have a Winner!
Why is it so hard for some families to accept that one or more individuals in their group just do not belong in a theme park?
People with allergies don't hang out at perfume counters in Macy's.
Asthmatics don't go near smoking areas.
People with skin cancer avoid the sun.
Many people will avoid the items that they themselves or a family member cannot tolerate.

A theme park is for fun. It's not a school, it's not a courtroom. It's not a necessity of life.

 

[arko]

That is not true at all about autistic kids. My niece is autistic and when she was younger she was non verbal, non responsive with a short temper, etc. My sister did some research and actually worked with her and changed her diet(which helped tremendously) and pretty much treated her like a normal child. She did not let her get violent and have temper tantrums. She taught her right from wrong. They have gone to WDW and not used the DAS or GAC, they make her wait. She does just fine. She is now 8 and is in a normal school setting and does what every other child does. She will come up to us and have conversations. She does still have bad days, just like anyone else but for the most part she has a typical life. So with the work put in they can be "reprogrammed" to use your term. Seeing the amazing change in her shows that with some work and patience, a lot of these children can be taught to wait in line or not go into fits. If I had not seen personally what can be done to help these children then maybe I too would feel like you. I know people call her a joke, and she is a bit of a whack job. But Jenny Mccarthy has helped her child too. She did the same by putting in the time and helping him to change. To just allow instant gratification like these people want may help them in the moment but not in the long run. And as the judge pointed out, how do they get there? How do they wait in line at the airport, or at the store, or wait for a bus? This is just plain ridiculous.

There is an old term that applies here, you mileage may vary. Not all kids with autism will respond as well as your niece regardless of how hard some parents try. Every child is different and not all children with autism will have the same outcome. It does not mean there will be no improvement it just means that improvement will vary and the strategies for each will be different.
The outcome of this case was fairly obvious because the plaintiff was given all sorts of tools and chose not to use any of them, and displayed actions that ran counter to the claim that the GAC was the only option.

 

[Rutt]

Thank you. But that is life, is it not? We all have some kind of issues in our lives. You learn to deal with them. Wouldn't we all love to have perfect lives with all of the money that we want and no illness or injuries. When someone creates this Utopia, please sign me up. Our family has been through a lot and we know that no one owes us anything. If something prevents us from going somewhere or having something, then we move on. We do not feel like it is our "right" to go to WDW. Either it is financially impossible or we can not handle it due to a disability, oh well, that is life. You find something else to fulfill your life. And be very glad for what you have! We never went to WDW as a child. My parents were immigrants and worked their butts off. We grew up just fine. I know we all want to go but if you can't, find something else for you children to be excited about.

Agreed.
As the father of an Autistic child (and apparently high functioning myself according to the specialist), we have had to learn that he does not always see things the way we do or respond the way we would expect someone to. HOWEVER, we have also worked very hard to make him understand that the world does not begin and end with him, that his actions affect the world beyond himself and that if he wishes to participate in society, he needs to learn to adapt just as we do. We've been lucky in that our son has responded to these challenges. While not always easy (read never), he has taken big steps with modest adjustments from everyone around him. He has come to understand that in places like Disney (his favourite place in the world I might add), he needs to wait like everyone else. He understands that if it's too much for him he doesn't have to wait, but that there are consequences to making that decision (no ride being one of them). He understands that his family may still go and enjoy themselves without him.
Does he still have meltdowns? You bet. Are they every day? Not anymore.
Is this typical? I doubt it, but I also fully believe that he will be better prepared for the real world than many of those who have been diagnosed to this point.

 

[arko]

We have a Winner!
Why is it so hard for some families to accept that one or more individuals in their group just do not belong in a theme park?
People with allergies don't hang out at perfume counters in Macy's.
Asthmatics don't go near smoking areas.
People with skin cancer avoid the sun.
Many people will avoid the items that they themselves or a family member cannot tolerate.

A theme park is for fun. It's not a school, it's not a courtroom. It's not a necessity of life.

It's not a question of belonging in a theme park, its is how far do ADA accomodations have to go before they meet the threshold of being burden to WDW. Both the GAC and the DAS fall below this threshold, but provide different levels of accomodation, in both theory and practice. The only question before the courts is whether the DAS is considered a reasonable accomodation or not vs the previous system which provided much more accomodation. The case that was decided was fairly weak because it was based on one days visit and the plaintiff did not even use the system. It will be interesting to see if any of the cases have instances where the family tried to use the system as designed and things did not work out, if the judge rules in favor of WDW in one of those cases then its pretty much guaranteed the rest will all go down the same way.

 

[flynnibus]

This doesn't sound good.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollyw...disney-world-discriminated-autistic-children/

This is a finding by a state commission related to the Florida state law on discrimination (Florida Civil Rights Act of 1992) and not the Federal ADA law.

The Florida statue is complete blanket bull$%^#% that pretty much only states:
760.08 Discrimination in places of public accommodation.—All persons are entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, national origin, sex, pregnancy, handicap, familial status, or religion.

But this finding is basically toothless... it does not call for Disney to face a hearing, instead suggests the plantiff request one.. where things would be scrutinized/defended again.. and the state AG isn't bringing suit.

This commission does have the power to bring Disney before an administrative hearing which has the power to declare behaviors discrimintory and issue rulings that say they must be stopped... but this hasn't gotten to this point.

Given the absurd open ended nature of the FL law.. I would expect it to be challenged in court if it got that far.

 

[flynnibus]

Civil rights commission ruling is a bit more problematic than a standard lawsuit I would think and are two different things.

Not really.. the delta is one is a state administrative action.. possibly backed up by a lawsuit filed by the state AG.. and the other is a lawsuit in federal court.

 

[flynnibus]

Does the ADA require that every specific disability receive a tailored accommodation? I could see this as being problematic.

This letter is not about the ADA - it's about the Florida state law on discrimination.. which is absurdly open ended.

 

[flynnibus]

Long and the short here, the Florida Civil Rights commission has way of enforcing anything.

That being said, there's a difference between reasonable accommodations and people abusing the system. The courts ruled correctly IMO and this should have no bearing.

Incorrect - this commission is measuring things based on the Florida law, not the Federal ADA laws. And the commission has the power to call the parties to an administrative hearing.

(4) In the event that the commission determines that there is reasonable cause to believe that a discriminatory practice has occurred in violation of the Florida Civil Rights Act of 1992, the aggrieved person may either:
(a) Bring a civil action against the person named in the complaint in any court of competent jurisdiction; or
(b) Request an administrative hearing under ss. 120.569 and 120.57.
The election by the aggrieved person of filing a civil action or requesting an administrative hearing under this subsection is the exclusive procedure available to the aggrieved person pursuant to this act.

(5) In any civil action brought under this section, the court may issue an order prohibiting the discriminatory practice and providing affirmative relief from the effects of the practice, including back pay. The court may also award compensatory damages, including, but not limited to, damages for mental anguish, loss of dignity, and any other intangible injuries, and punitive damages

The individual can file suit, the state AG can file suit, or they can call for an admin hearing which has the ability to issue orders.

The letter in itself doesn't do much except let the other processes take place..

 

[flynnibus]

What type of power does this commission have? Is their ruling just a recommendation for it to go to the courts, or do they hold the same power as a court ruling would?

Check out the section titled
760.11 Administrative and civil remedies; construction

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0760/0760.html

Basically lawsuits and administrative hearings are both possible ways to get resolution under this state law.

 

[jaklgreen]

There is an old term that applies here, you mileage may vary. Not all kids with autism will respond as well as your niece regardless of how hard some parents try. Every child is different and not all children with autism will have the same outcome. It does not mean there will be no improvement it just means that improvement will vary and the strategies for each will be different.
The outcome of this case was fairly obvious because the plaintiff was given all sorts of tools and chose not to use any of them, and displayed actions that ran counter to the claim that the GAC was the only option.

This is true. All kids are different. But I am sure there are some parents out there that take the diagnosis and use that as an excuse for the child's poor behavior without trying to correct it. I believe that woman had made a statement that her kids needs to get on the ride NOW, and she would not be responsible if he became violent and started hitting others. This reeks of a person who is using her child's disability as an excuse. There is so much unknown about autism. I think more education and more ways to help these children is needed. It is a non stop job that you never get a break from and most days its 1 step forward and 3 steps back. We are fortunate that my niece was able to learn after years of working with her. I wish that for all autistic kids. So that they can have a life of their own as the grow older. I do want to say again that diet made a huge difference. It was almost instant the day my sister changed her diet you could tell a huge difference. I have read a study where they know that autistic kids' stomachs handle food different. They are very much "you are what you eat".