Monorail Thoughts... Not sure where to post...

[Gullywhumper]

I'm sure the animals are at least smart enough to get away.

 

[morningstar]

Possibly they'll have a manual override, but it's hard to say.

It would seem crazy to me not to put an emergency stop in.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm sure the animals are at least smart enough to get away.

Look up some of the YouTube videos of Disney monorails stopped by animals on the beam way.

 

[Tom]

I'm sure the animals are at least smart enough to get away.

They are not.

 

[Tom]

It would seem crazy to me not to put an emergency stop in.

Absolutely they would.

 

[Tom]

If they used Orlando International Airport to get to WDW then they have used a fully automated train system. Most large airports, including Orlando, have fully automated people movers.

I don't doubt that WDW would/should keep 2 CM's at the stations to assist people with questions or extra needs, but to have staff handling doors, starting trains, and monitoring the track is not necessary with today's technology; technology that has been well tested in systems across the world. You would, of course, need to staff a central control though...

Also, the obstruction detection would probably be on the track itself, not the vehicles. Sensors on the track would monitor obstructions & would communicate with central control which would communicate with the on board computers to slow or stop the trains.

I discount the MCO trams as a way for the average Joe to become familiar with automated train systems. It's a very simple system that's slow in all of it's actions. It's nothing like riding a subway.

I just imagine someone taking forever to get their monster stroller on the monorail, and the doors wanting to close repeatedly like an impatient elevator. Or loading an ECV/wheelchair, which requires a CM to get the ramp out. The master control system will clear a train for dispatch - just like in every manually-dispatched ride - but it will still require a CM to press a dispatch button when everything is clear.

I suppose that could be done from the platform, including the closing of the doors, but I still think it's wise to have someone in the forward cab, given the long stretches of track between stations. Be it a fire, collision, animal or general power failure, having a CM in close proximity to the guests is critical, in my opinion.

 

[unkadug]

There will still be a CM in the cab.

With his finger on the dead-mans switch?

edit: Sorry if that came across as in poor taste, but that IS the name of the switch.

 

[Nextinline]

I discount the MCO trams as a way for the average Joe to become familiar with automated train systems. It's a very simple system that's slow in all of it's actions. It's nothing like riding a subway.

I just imagine someone taking forever to get their monster stroller on the monorail, and the doors wanting to close repeatedly like an impatient elevator. Or loading an ECV/wheelchair, which requires a CM to get the ramp out. The master control system will clear a train for dispatch - just like in every manually-dispatched ride - but it will still require a CM to press a dispatch button when everything is clear.

I suppose that could be done from the platform, including the closing of the doors, but I still think it's wise to have someone in the forward cab, given the long stretches of track between stations. Be it a fire, collision, animal or general power failure, having a CM in close proximity to the guests is critical, in my opinion.

It will be interesting to see how they move forward. I think that their aging infrastructure cause some of the problems that you mentioned. For instance, the monorail doors should line up with the platform so that the ramps are not needed. I think the Mark VI doors are at a different height than the Mark IV, but I'm not sure if that is the reason they don't line up properly. Also, the evacuation plan seems a little sketchy! Having people climb on top of the monorail seems very precarious compared to an emergency walkway along the track (which I know can be very expensive).

It would have been nice to see a new fleet of vehicles come with the automation so it could all be synced up into one coherent system. Now we have a piecemeal monorail with nothing planned beyond this automation.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It will be interesting to see how they move forward. I think that their aging infrastructure cause some of the problems that you mentioned. For instance, the monorail doors should line up with the platform so that the ramps are not needed. I think the Mark VI doors are at a different height than the Mark IV, but I'm not sure if that is the reason they don't line up properly. Also, the evacuation plan seems a little sketchy! Having people climb on top of the monorail seems very precarious compared to an emergency walkway along the track (which I know can be very expensive).

It would have been nice to see a new fleet of vehicles come with the automation so it could all be synced up into one coherent system. Now we have a piecemeal monorail with nothing planned beyond this automation.

Relative to the top of the beam way, the Mark VI doors are higher than the Mark IV doors, but the stations were adjusted. The problem preventing level entry is the design of Disney's Mark VI doors. The INNOVIA 200 (formerly the M-VI) now has a door that allows for level entry and can be seen in use on the Las Vegas Monorail. New trains would more than likely be INNOVIA 200s, which are not very much different from the current Mark VIs, thus offering little gains for such high costs.

 

[nace888]

I'm sure the animals are at least smart enough to get away.

Yeahhhh, take a look at this...

Look up some of the YouTube videos of Disney monorails stopped by animals on the beam way.

You mean like the above ones?? LOL! Don't forget Disneyland's issue a few years ago...

They are not.

Noooo, they aren't.

Absolutely they would.

Naturally, seems like common sense!

I discount the MCO trams as a way for the average Joe to become familiar with automated train systems. It's a very simple system that's slow in all of it's actions. It's nothing like riding a subway.

I just imagine someone taking forever to get their monster stroller on the monorail, and the doors wanting to close repeatedly like an impatient elevator. Or loading an ECV/wheelchair, which requires a CM to get the ramp out. The master control system will clear a train for dispatch - just like in every manually-dispatched ride - but it will still require a CM to press a dispatch button when everything is clear.

I suppose that could be done from the platform, including the closing of the doors, but I still think it's wise to have someone in the forward cab, given the long stretches of track between stations. Be it a fire, collision, animal or general power failure, having a CM in close proximity to the guests is critical, in my opinion.

To this day, some subways still have drivers, one of which received an award for stopping their train just short of a person who had fallen on the rails!! Seems almost logical to keep a CM for ANY issues!!

Relative to the top of the beam way, the Mark VI doors are higher than the Mark IV doors, but the stations were adjusted. The problem preventing level entry is the design of Disney's Mark VI doors. The INNOVIA 200 (formerly the M-VI) now has a door that allows for level entry and can be seen in use on the Las Vegas Monorail. New trains would more than likely be INNOVIA 200s, which are not very much different from the current Mark VIs, thus offering little gains for such high costs.

I coulda sworn that the Mark VI's floors were not level with the stations? The doors and floor line up I believe, but the platform and floors don't. I wanna say the floors are right above the beam...

 

[FettFan]

So I got to thinkin recently (bad I know) about the monorails, and stuff that happens to em. The more magical side, I suppose you could say... I remember a couple years ago when both Monorails Red and Gold came across some... forest friend issues on the beam. Gold practically exhausting a squirrel, and Red taunting an Egyptian Goose.. And it got me to thinking. With automation going into place, how do you think things will work out in the "beam lovers department" (yanno the animals XD) and the fact that something similar could happen in front of guests?

Boom.

Done.

 

[Nextinline]

Relative to the top of the beam way, the Mark VI doors are higher than the Mark IV doors, but the stations were adjusted. The problem preventing level entry is the design of Disney's Mark VI doors. The INNOVIA 200 (formerly the M-VI) now has a door that allows for level entry and can be seen in use on the Las Vegas Monorail. New trains would more than likely be INNOVIA 200s, which are not very much different from the current Mark VIs, thus offering little gains for such high costs.

I see what you are saying in that the door design prevents level entry.

Although the INNOVIA 200 is similar to the Mark VI in a lot of ways, the ability to have a completely integrated system seems like a good reason to purchase new vehicles.

 

[Nextinline]

For those of you who are monorail savvy, how close has WDW ever come to expanding the monorail? I know there are always rumors flying around, but has any evidence ever come from a reliable source before ultimately being decided against?

 

[MaryJaneP]

The fully automated tram at MCO, as nextinline mentions, is an example, discounted by others or not, of a system that does not have any personnel "operating" it.

As for wildlife, perhaps some version of a cowcatcher (squirrelcatcher, goosecatcher) could be fixed to the ends of the monorails. I know it does not solve the fall issue the wildlife may suffer from the great heights of the beam, or the wildlife possibly contacting the energized rail, but it does reduce the "pancake" issue and the lingering blood-tinged stain on the beam for guests to ponder over.

 

[nace888]

Boom.

Done.

Not that simple, I wouldn't think. While it's the same technology, birds and squirrels are much smaller, and those trains can't immediately stop like the car can. They may have an E-Stop, but they're much larger than a car, and in size and passenger capacity, I'd say they're about 5 bus loads... If it's able to be done for far distances, it might be possible.

The fully automated tram at MCO, as nextinline mentions, is an example, discounted by others or not, of a system that does not have any personnel "operating" it.

As for wildlife, perhaps some version of a cowcatcher (squirrelcatcher, goosecatcher) could be fixed to the ends of the monorails. I know it does not solve the fall issue the wildlife may suffer from the great heights of the beam, or the wildlife possibly contacting the energized rail, but it does reduce the "pancake" issue and the lingering blood-tinged stain on the beam for guests to ponder over.

Yes, but even then, I'd imagine a cast member would be there for safety. Guests can't just find a door release, and walk onto a walkway should there be a fire or any other evac. And I'd imagine that the CM's would be there should a computer crash DOES happen.

 

[Gullywhumper]

Yeahhhh, take a look at this...




You mean like the above ones?? LOL! Don't forget Disneyland's issue a few years ago...


Noooo, they aren't.


Naturally, seems like common sense!


To this day, some subways still have drivers, one of which received an award for stopping their train just short of a person who had fallen on the rails!! Seems almost logical to keep a CM for ANY issues!!


I coulda sworn that the Mark VI's floors were not level with the stations? The doors and floor line up I believe, but the platform and floors don't. I wanna say the floors are right above the beam...

I guess I was wrong!

 

[nace888]

I guess I was wrong!

The squirrel was TRYING to get away. The goose, not so much.
This one was at a zoo...

 

[nace888]

I guess I was wrong!

Can't forget about the ducks on the Disneyland beamway, that happens all the time! XD

 

[nace888]

Not tryin to spam, but got to thinkin... Should a train break down on the beam, that pretty much shuts out any estimation of moving trains... THEN, with automation in place, how would one be able to get the tractor from say Shop to Epcot beam? Just an example... Would they stop all trains, and then have to hope they can Merry-Go-Round the tractor down that way? Just some thoughts that crossed my mind... Or for instance, Train breaks down in the epcot station... There's One train behind, one ahead... How would the tractor get there? Odd little thoughts I was thinking of. Do you think they'll just keep Monorail Pilots altogether, and have them with a Manual Drive override for this sorta thing?

I mean sure, with Automation, new trains could auto-couple, but then, how's one gonna fit in the station? What are we gonna do, unload the broken down train in a station, and then move the working train in? :S

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not tryin to spam, but got to thinkin... Should a train break down on the beam, that pretty much shuts out any estimation of moving trains... THEN, with automation in place, how would one be able to get the tractor from say Shop to Epcot beam? Just an example... Would they stop all trains, and then have to hope they can Merry-Go-Round the tractor down that way? Just some thoughts that crossed my mind... Or for instance, Train breaks down in the epcot station... There's One train behind, one ahead... How would the tractor get there? Odd little thoughts I was thinking of. Do you think they'll just keep Monorail Pilots altogether, and have them with a Manual Drive override for this sorta thing?

I mean sure, with Automation, new trains could auto-couple, but then, how's one gonna fit in the station? What are we gonna do, unload the broken down train in a station, and then move the working train in? :S

There would still be a block system in place to maintain safe distances. The tractor would get to its destination in the same way it would now. Depending on the system trains could be moved remotely or manually.