Monorail Rumor late 90's

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by MrPromey
… I’d like to say that it was sort of refreshing to get someone from the ‘other camp’ that had more than just “monorails are more ‘magical’” or “monorails are better” to head up their argument with. Usually, people wanting monorails come into this without much thought and then come up with plans for how a monorail system could work that rivals the schematics of a microprocessor in terms of complexity.

I couldn't agree more here. Monorails aren't the ultimate solution to anyone’s transportation problem. Technologically, they have come a long way. (Having Passing sidings for a monorail is technologically possible now.) The important thing to remember is that there are different modes of transportation for each traffic flow problem encountered.

One example is moving guests from anywhere to a resort. By far the easiest solution for this is busses for both flexibility and maintenance/breakdown issues.

Moving from park to park is a good candidate for a fixed system like a monorail/light rail, so long as you can minimize the wait between trains to something in the 10 to 12 min range because that’s about all the average person can stand to wait without getting stressed. However, the expense of the system would outweigh its benefits unless Disney were to start keeping all the parks open from 8 am to midnight most of the year. In this manner, utilization would be higher than what the current operating hours would allow. A scenario I don’t see happening even in the more distant future.

On transporting guests and or cast members to the Property, any system that doesn’t have to cross vehicular traffic too much makes sense. This allows for light rail or even a steam or diesel passenger train for that matter. The only difficulty I see here is how do we mix commuters and vacationers with luggage on a train and make it comfortable for all and keep it on schedule. That’s the only reason I feel a separate dedicated line or train from the Airport to I-Drive and Disney would make sense. (Ignoring Disney's political stance on the I-Drive part intentionally here because everything the Mouse wants doesn't always make sense for the area.)

High-speed rail isn’t going to be very fast if it has to stop every 10 miles or so. If it were up to me, I wouldn't have the system originate at the airport only to make its first stops at attractions and theme parks. That just isn't a very efficient and cost-effective use of the system. The idea of having passenger rail connecting Florida's major cities is a wonderful idea but who is it being built to serve. Business class travelers are still going to take a plane even if their trip is as short as Miami to Orlando. Tourists aren’t going to hang out at the airport waiting on the next train to depart a couple of hours after their plane arrived when they could be at Disney 30 minutes to an hour later by taxi or bus. It will serve international tourists though that fly into Orlando but are actually vacationing at one of the coastal areas not served by their airline or splitting their vacation between Orlando and another Florida destination. I could go on about the possibility of flawed logic in the studies for this system but I am sure it will all come out in the news after it’s built anyway.

I could keep going on here but you get my point. I would also like to add, as you did, it’s nice to see someone not waving a monorail flag over their head as they enter the discussion. LOL, I might still be in the transportation industry, if there were more folks out there willing to look at things vs. just throwing more money at an increasingly complicated problem without having the "big picture" in mind.

 

[Invero]

Quite an interesting discussion going on. I have to admit, I really haven't been following the high speed rail issue here in Florida as much as I should be...

Going back to the whole Monorail from Airport to Disney... here's my question... Where would the monorail drop off? We have 21 resorts (Including future resorts), plus Shades of Green and Hotel Plaza Blvd... one would still have to transfer, and take a bus or something to thier resort. In my mind, that takes away from the whole "convenience factor."

As for parade exits, and rain... Disney does put up extra transportation for the demand. Extra staffing for the MK monorail comes over at 2:30... the 2nd Ferry goes up at 3pm... and extra buses are added to the Flex when the 3:00 drivers come in.

The 4th MK monorail goes up usually around 6ish... 3rd Ferry typically goes up just before the first parade exit. AK Floater buses usually come over just before the first exit, and Stolport buses come up as needed during the parade and/or park exits.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by Fantasia Boi

As for parade exits, and rain... Disney does put up extra transportation for the demand. Extra staffing for the MK monorail comes over at 2:30... the 2nd Ferry goes up at 3pm... and extra buses are added to the Flex when the 3:00 drivers come in.

The 4th MK monorail goes up usually around 6ish... 3rd Ferry typically goes up just before the first parade exit. AK Floater buses usually come over just before the first exit, and Stolport buses come up as needed during the parade and/or park exits.

Note: I know these post have gotten a bit lengthy and reading through them all at once could get confusing.

Its nice to know there have been a few changes in regards to the afternoon parade exits for bus transportation. As far as Ferries and Monorails go for Magic Kingdom, except for those park hopping, these two modes of transportation serve more day guests while the focus of this thread has mostly been on resort guests.

As for the later park exits, after Spectro and Fantasy in the Sky, I hope I didn't miselad anyone to beleive Disney did nothing to alleviate the extra Demand. As mentioned before, one of the reasons the spectacles are scheduled the way they are is an effort to help smooth demand for transportation. As Fantasia mentioned, and I alluded to previously, Disney does add a significant amount of busses (and other transportation) for the park closings.

The real point I was trying to make is that if there is a big Thunder Storm and demand suddenly increases outside of the times we have mentioned, there really aren't any contingency plans for bus transportation to beef up quickly. The scheduling does not allow for that much extra equipment nor are there a lot of extra drivers available. One also has to consider that a large Thunderstorm would effect (usually, not always) all of the parks thus further stretching the limited resources.

My observations of thunderstorms though is that most guest dont leave all at once but instead find places to wait it out. If the rain becomes persisitent then guests will pack it in for the day and start to head back to their resorts. This usually takes the form of a steady stream and not a huge rush. Therefore, it doesnt warrant additional bus capacity. The exception to this would be the closing of Typhoon or Blizzard for weather related reasons. In that case Disney trys very hard to make sure the guests leave those parks as quickly as possible both for Safety and guest satisfaction reasons.

 

[MrPromey]

Originally posted by Fantasia Boi
Quite an interesting discussion going on. I have to admit, I really haven't been following the high speed rail issue here in Florida as much as I should be...

Going back to the whole Monorail from Airport to Disney... here's my question... Where would the monorail drop off? We have 21 resorts (Including future resorts), plus Shades of Green and Hotel Plaza Blvd... one would still have to transfer, and take a bus or something to thier resort. In my mind, that takes away from the whole "convenience factor."

As for parade exits, and rain... Disney does put up extra transportation for the demand. Extra staffing for the MK monorail comes over at 2:30... the 2nd Ferry goes up at 3pm... and extra buses are added to the Flex when the 3:00 drivers come in.

The 4th MK monorail goes up usually around 6ish... 3rd Ferry typically goes up just before the first parade exit. AK Floater buses usually come over just before the first exit, and Stolport buses come up as needed during the parade and/or park exits.

But with that 4th monorail, they sort of hit the wall and while I am not a cast member, I am a guest who has been stuck waiting for a monorail or ferry in one of these events and I can say from experience that catching one of the busses or smaller boats to resorts is a lot easier...

I still think that a monorail like what is currently in use on property would be a bad idea for something connected to the airport. It seems to me that a light rail (elevated or not) or a much smaller monorail system that could run with more cars would make more sense... In any event, I think this kind of thing would be viewed as more of an extension to Airport Transportation sort of making WDW a satellite terminal. With only one track going back and forth, getting to where you have to go once on property wouldn't be all that confusing I don't think... though this would have to be done in a newly developed location... Perhaps it could dump them off near Downtown Disney so they have some place to "$pend" time while they wait for their rooms if they get there too early or some other such thing...

One of the problems I see with this is still the luggage. Currently it isn't really Disney's responsibility to figure out how guests are going to get to their property. Obviously if a light rail makes it possible for people to get from the airport to say... Universal, it will be something that Disney has to address to remain competitive...

The part that to me makes things more complicated is how to move guests around with luggage once they get on property. Some people like me tend to pack light and wouldn't have a problem but there are members of my family who tend to pack a lot more than they can carry or move by themselves at once for any reasonable distance... If they did use busses once on property there would be the issue of the luggage... Of course, they could have it sent directly to their room which would be mucho convenient for the guest but would add a lot of work on the back end for Disney.... I don't know...


BTW, sorry I called you "Bish". It has been a while.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by Fantasia Boi

Going back to the whole Monorail from Airport to Disney... here's my question... Where would the monorail drop off? We have 21 resorts (Including future resorts), plus Shades of Green and Hotel Plaza Blvd... one would still have to transfer, and take a bus or something to thier resort. In my mind, that takes away from the whole "convenience factor."

I am wondering what the answer is to that question myself? It is definitely one that Transportation Planning must have answered. The reason being this is exactly what Disney is going to have to deal with when high-speed rail hits the property. In several of the articles about the high-speed rail route, Disney has said they will move all of their passengers that normally take motor coaches from the airport to WDW to the rail option as long as it bypasses I-Drive. And as it seemed form the numbers in the articles, this would be a fairly significant stream of passengers.

But like you said, then what? The guests are now at the new High-speed rail transportation hub on Disney property. What do you do next? Do you put them on busses? Light rail? Monorail? Where does all of the luggage go? Here are my thoughts....

The people board a bus going to their final destination. Reason being, I don’t believe the high-speed rail trains are going to run every 15 mins or so like a light rail or monorail dedicated to the airport route might. In stead it will probably be an hour or so between trains from the airport and headed to the airport. (Depending on total number of trains. It gets more frequent and more complicated as the whole high-speed system connecting all major cities is built.) This should allow Disney to use a small number of dedicated buses serving a couple of resorts each to move the people to and from the rail station all day long. Also by using busses they will be able to adjust for increased demand at certain train arrival times during the day and on peak arrival days like Fridays and Mondays.

As for luggage there are at least two ways to handle this, One is to have each guest handle their own luggage throughout the trip and utilize charter type coaches at Disney to store luggage underneath for the final leg. This however makes scheduling a complete shot in the dark as people/drivers have to unload luggage and all the delays inherent with that. This would definitely eliminate efficiency and convenience.

The second scenario would be routing luggage separately from the airport to the resorts. This could be handled in two ways.

1. Luggage trucks from the airport to the resorts. Once a guest retrieves their luggage from the airline, they simply take it over to the Disney luggage counter and drop it off. The luggage has already been ticketed to go to the appropriate destination because the identifiers came with your vacation pkg. from the travel agent. The truck or trucks then make stops at the resorts on property dropping off your luggage. The bell hop staff then makes sure it gets delivered to the appropriate room much as they do now at moderate and deluxe resorts.

2. Luggage placed in containers on a rail car. This scenario works pretty much the same as the previous one except the luggage goes on the same train as the guests in containers marked for each resort. Once the train arrives at Disney, the containers are offloaded onto trucks who then take them to their individual destinations for the bell staff to deliver.

To further address the idea of convenience, we also need to look at the magic factor.

There is nothing terribly convenient about boarding a Mears bus and making multiple stops on the way to your Disney Resort. From what I have gathered on these boards, those trips can sometimes take an hour to an hour and a half. Not to mention, you still have to be a lot more responsible for your luggage. There is also nothing particularly Magical about an over the road bus nor comfortable in my opinion.

To put folks on a train, with limited or no stops from the airport to WDW and minimize their luggage handling adds a whole lot of convenience and value to the transportation experience even with the transfer at the future Disney transportation Hub. Even if the train goes to I-drive first, the most you would have is one stop before Disney. If the stops/luggage/ passengers are handled correctly, the stops should be no more than a couple of minutes. To me this is more magical and convenient than a bus trip along the Bee line or the Greenway that could result in several stops and traffic related issues.

Boy, I did it again; another long post. I have given some serious thought to the transportation issues not just at Disney but for our country in general. I truly hope that someday, the politicians and other community leaders will devote some serious planning and development into a multi-mode transportation system that will alleviate many of the problems so prevalent on our roadways today. I loved driving on the roads at Disney because they were designed to handle way more than the traffic they see each day. Unfortunately, this is not the case in most metropolitan areas, Orlando included. And in many cities, To add more lanes to the highways means demolishing parts of the very cities they are trying to serve to create the necessary additional right-of-way..