Monorail Envy

[Timon]

Expansion is different that new trains, but unfortunately the INNOVIA 300 monorails appear to be wider and taller than the Mark VI monorails.

Luckily they still make the INNOVIA 200 which I would guess is aimed at certain capcity sized systems probably in the 25K group while the 300 is in the 40K group.
Bombardier Photoshop 200 at the Poly:

Bombardier has one more change for a larger capacity train to compete with Hitachi and that's to raise the floor so all wheels and gear are under the train for an entirely flat floor. This would be one really big high capacity train.
Hitachi Large Monorail:

Hitachi Flat Floor:

 

[Tigger#1]

I just find it hard to believe that when you factor in the fuel costs, maintenance and insurance costs that the momorails wouldn't save money in the long run.

 

[maxairmike]

Something to also consider in the cost argument is the bonding authority of the Reedy Creek Improvement District. Even though they probably wouldn't attempt it because of the outrage from Orange/Osceola County (see the road bonding from the 90s), they could seek transportation bonds and grants if they really wanted to. That could offset direct costs to the company by quite a bit if they would choose to go that route. Disney has a lot of governmental powers via RCID to make things happen. That is how the 192 interchange got built, as well as the Osceola Parkway and other (hotly contested) road projects.

 

[BalooChicago]

Allegedly, it costs more to build these things in Florida because the ground is so swampy. Can't imagine building through an incredibly dense urban area is any more inexpensive, though.

Caissons are not terribly expensive. The building I'm currently working on has more than 75 that go down 55' (70' below the ground, 55 below the basement level). And that is "just" a 5 story, 160,000SF building.

 

[PyroKinesis]

Brazilians love WDW so much they decided to build thier own super fleet back home lol. Anyway I'm sure this has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that they're hosting the 2014 World Cup and the 2016 Olympics.

Rio is 219 miles from Sao Paulo. This has nothing to do with the Olympics.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Luckily they still make the INNOVIA 200 which I would guess is aimed at certain capcity sized systems probably in the 25K group while the 300 is in the 40K group.

The INNOVIA 200 is the old M-VI, based on the current Mark VIs that Bombardier built for Walt Disney World.

 

[Mickey_777]

Rio is 219 miles from Sao Paulo. This has nothing to do with the Olympics.

And the World Cup? Plus it's about image. While Rio is the host city, Brasil as a country will be under the microscope and they want the world to know they're not as "3rd world" as everyone assumes. The primary reason they're getting a fleet of high tech monorails is the need for this type of transport but looking good before the eyes of the world also factors into it.

 

[Epcot '92]

Rio is 219 miles from Sao Paulo. This has nothing to do with the Olympics.

There could be venues for some sports there... Like when they were in Atlanta:

To Orlando: 440mi

To Miami: 667mi

To RFK in DC: 639mi

 

[PyroKinesis]

There will be one stadium in Sao Paulo, and one event in the 2016 Olympics in Sao Paulo. I repeat, this is not for the Olympics, NOR is it for the World Cup.

 

[Gringrinngghost]

Built by Martin Marietta
Mark IV Monorail
Period of Service 1971 to 1991
Length:
5 cars: 171'
6 cars: 201'
Width: 8' 10”
Height: 11' 7” (7' above top of beam)
Weight (lbs): 5 cars empty: 92,000
5 cars gross: 122,600
6 cars empty: 108,500
6 cars gross: 145,100

Built by Bombardier Transportation
Mark VI Monorail
Period of Service 1989 to Present
Length: 203' 6" long (62m)
Width: (from outside) 8' 4.5" (2.55m)
Height: (Head Room: From Top of Floor to Bottom of Headliner) 6' 10.75" (2.1m)
Tall: (From Bottom of Skirt to Top of Shell) 10' 5.5"
Weight (lbs): 5 cars empty: 92,000
Passenger capacity: 20 seated passengers - per car
40 standing passengers - per car
360 people - total train

 

[Gringrinngghost]

in 1970 the cost per mile of beam was 1 Million Dollars. Count inflation it's now $5,835,592.78. So a 14 mile beam system cost 14 Million Dollars would cost now $81,698,298.92.

 

[unkadug]

in 1970 the cost per mile of beam was 1 Million Dollars. Count inflation it's now $5,835,592.78. So a 14 mile beam system cost 14 Million Dollars would cost now $81,698,298.92.

Sounds like a bargain to me....I'll take two just to be polite! :animwink:

 

[trr1]

in 1970 the cost per mile of beam was 1 Million Dollars. Count inflation it's now $5,835,592.78. So a 14 mile beam system cost 14 Million Dollars would cost now $81,698,298.92.

is that just for the track or was the stations included?

 

[MarkTwain]

in 1970 the cost per mile of beam was 1 Million Dollars. Count inflation it's now $5,835,592.78. So a 14 mile beam system cost 14 Million Dollars would cost now $81,698,298.92.

...Which is still less than the cost of Toy Story Midway Mania.

 

[Gringrinngghost]

is that just for the track or was the stations included?

Just the Track

 

[Admiral01]

in 1970 the cost per mile of beam was 1 Million Dollars. Count inflation it's now $5,835,592.78. So a 14 mile beam system cost 14 Million Dollars would cost now $81,698,298.92.

I've heard this $1M per mile in 1970 number thrown around a lot...but I've never seen it substantiated. So, I'm not sure how accurate that $1M is. If anyone has a reputable reference, I would appreciate it.

However, assuming it is accurate, that is just for the track and not for the rest of the system. Even at $82M in today dollars, the track is not that expensive, especially for the relatively small amount of real estate the footprint consumes on the ground.

 

[flavious27]

in 1970 the cost per mile of beam was 1 Million Dollars. Count inflation it's now $5,835,592.78. So a 14 mile beam system cost 14 Million Dollars would cost now $81,698,298.92.

I think we have all heard about the $1 million per mile price before, but I don't know if anyone has proven it with documents and or contracts. Regardless, similar projects at the time have a higher cost per mile. The morgantown prt system cost 62 million for a length of 5.2 miles, it opened in '74.

The total cost per mile for monorails (guideways, trains, and stations) is above $80 million for proposed projects in the US. For Disney, it would be a similar price. So even a 4 or 5 mile extension to dhs from epcot would cost 320 - 400 million.

 

[MDenham]

The total cost per mile for monorails (guideways, trains, and stations) is above $80 million for proposed projects in the US. For Disney, it would be a similar price. So even a 4 or 5 mile extension to dhs from epcot would cost 320 - 400 million.

If it's a rail-and-station-only expansion, no additional trains, it'd probably run somewhere around half to two-thirds of that. (If the $4400/foot figure I gave earlier is accurate in the US as well, it's as low as one-third of that, but, well, we're not Brazil despite all the tour groups, and labor and materials are more expensive here - somewhere between 50% and 100% more expensive, I suspect.)

That's still probably in the neighborhood of $200 million (give or take about 20%), though.

 

[s8film40]

Even automated systems have to be operated manually now and then. In the monorail photo, there's a panel above the fire extinguisher and one to the left. I'd presume one of them hides the manual controls.

Perhaps these monorails have to be driven manually out of the yard and then once they're on the track and they (and the overall system) see where they are they start operating in auto mode. The ride vehicles on Universe of Energy have manual control panels at the rear. When the ride goes 101, they have to be manually reset to their "home" position on one of the turntables before the system can start back up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLsqzkYVhbs

-Rob

I would assume they will operate these similar to the way they operate the Las Vegas ones. The Las Vegas monorails have manual controls like you are talking about and I'm sure these will too but it is very rarely used. Anytime the trains aren't in automatic operation they are driven remotely from the control center. The operators can use multiple cameras to watch the movements as they drive the train to where it needs to be then turn it over to the automated control.

 

[Timon]

For anyone interested, here's a shot of the Las Vegas INNOVIA 200 (formerly M-VI) manual control panel in the cab.

And more gizmos and whatchamacallits on the bulk head wall:

I think they were going for an industrial look here.