Monorail beams

[halltd]

I always wondered about that "ghost platform" as well. On my last several trips, the only thing I could surmise was that it acts as a roof for the "hot dog"/tram loading station below. So, while it's horribly over-sized on the top for people, it actually is properly sized to shield the patrons below from the weather. That's the best I could come up with, though.

 

[kgaf99]

I always wondered about that "ghost platform" as well. On my last several trips, the only thing I could surmise was that it acts as a roof for the "hot dog"/tram loading station below. So, while it's horribly over-sized on the top for people, it actually is properly sized to shield the patrons below from the weather. That's the best I could come up with, though.

That part makes sense about shielding people from the blazing sun. But what's with the long walkway under a roof just to exit? Why not a shorter exit.

I do like the other post where they were going to use the exit as the entrance and vise versa.

 

[Mouse_Trap]

On paper, monorails look crappy. Buses look good. I even have to side with buses on this. If a bus breaks down then you just drive around it (sending out another bus to take care of the situation, of course). If a monorail breaks down - now the line is stuck because they have to coordinate getting that train off of the line so that passage can continue.

But surely that's only because they had the forsight to build multiple lanes on the road. If the road was built just one land wide then you would still have problems.

The solution surely is to make the track at least dualled. At the point of design, I doubt it would even cost that much more. I would presume that the majority of the cost is in sinking the footings for the beams, and that the beams themselves are not actually 'that' expensive.

 

[halltd]

For the price of MyMagic+, they could have gotten a lot of miles of monorail track.

I can't even count the number of times I've been to Disney it's so many, but the monorails always seem the most efficient to me. They show up quickly, and they're almost always constantly moving while I'm on it. Again, I've been there a LOT and I've never been stuck on a monorail. The buses on the other hand could take 45 minutes to arrive, and even after they arrive, they're driving horribly slow and starting and stopping a ton during the trip. Unless I'm falling asleep, I'm always internally angered by being on the bus because it's so inefficient. Granted they're cheaper to implement and possibly operate, but it's hard for me to believe that the buses are actually more efficient at moving people around. If those people weren't on buses, they'd be in a hotel, park, or shopping district spending money...they'd probably be happier too.

 

[Goofyernmost]

For the price of MyMagic+, they could have gotten a lot of miles of monorail track.

I can't even count the number of times I've been to Disney it's so many, but the monorails always seem the most efficient to me. They show up quickly, and they're almost always constantly moving while I'm on it. Again, I've been there a LOT and I've never been stuck on a monorail. The buses on the other hand could take 45 minutes to arrive, and even after they arrive, they're driving horribly slow and starting and stopping a ton during the trip. Unless I'm falling asleep, I'm always internally angered by being on the bus because it's so inefficient. Granted they're cheaper to implement and possibly operate, but it's hard for me to believe that the buses are actually more efficient at moving people around. If those people weren't on buses, they'd be in a hotel, park, or shopping district spending money...they'd probably be happier too.

I'd guess that you have never had the occasion to buy a Monorail Train. I hear they can be quite pricy. The rails are only one part of it. You can buy a truck load of buses for the cost of one Monorail Train. Your bus problems could be solved by having a car available, I know... I've done it! The Monorails are showing up quickly because they only run in a short loop. Spread them out across the property and I promise you, you will be waiting a long time.

 

[Tom]

Someone might have to correct me but I seem to recall an item that when they built it, it kind of got designed backward from plan. The original intention was to have the long area as the entrance, hence the more gradual slope of the ramps and the current entrance would be the exit, which is why it was shorter and steeper.

It was a cover for the tram area, as someone said. But I believe it was also there to serve as a preview/lookout platform for guests to take a peek at Epcot while they were still building it. I could be dead wrong on this part, but I've read it, or was told it, by someone long ago.

 

[kgaf99]

It was a cover for the tram area, as someone said. But I believe it was also there to serve as a preview/lookout platform for guests to take a peek at Epcot while they were still building it. I could be dead wrong on this part, but I've read it, or was told it, by someone long ago.

i believe you're right bc i found this in an article

"Lots of WDW visitors wished that they could be in President Nixon's shoes and explore Epcot Center months before this theme park officially opened to the public. But the best they could do was enjoy a monorail ride through the then-still-active construction site and visit the temporary visitor's center that had been set up in Epcot Center's Monorail station."

 

[kgaf99]

either way i still hate that long platform exit bc it takes me a whole 60 seconds longer to enter my favorite park. EVERY SECOND COUNTS!!! doesn't disney know this?? LOL oh the humanity!!!!

 

[kgaf99]

then there is this that i found as well and it makes sense i guess.

"Big platform is there to disperse crowd flow.

When it was designed it was assumed most if not all guests would disembark and head to the ticket windows. They didn't want a tidal wave of guests hitting the windows all at once so decided to spread them out by making them walk further and naturally manage themselves."

 

[kgaf99]

Then there is the expansion discussion which makes sense as well.....

found this info...

"The monorail expansion did NOT use the Transportation and Ticket Center (TTC) as a home-base, or a hub, for the monorail activity. That surprised me at first, given the TTC’s name. Instead, it used the existing Epcot station as a hub for future add-ons. That’s when I remembered: the Epcot station is already built to handle expansion. Haven’t you ever wondered why the walk to the exit ramp is so long? It’s because another “terminal” is supposed to go here."

"You people are standing in the future terminal!"

"The plan as written called for the monorail expansion to leave Epcot and circle off to the right (east), so as to swing by Port Orleans / Old Key West as a first stop. I can’t recall if Downtown Disney was on the route, but it might have been. The beam would then head back, stopping at Pop Century (and Disney’s Hollywood Studios? I can’t remember) before finally making its way to DAK. It could easily also stop at a future park near ESPN Wild World of Sports."

 

[sjhym333]

The reason the EPCOT station looks like it does is because the original plan included a second station that was supposed to go to the Disney Village and Hotel plaza from EPCOT Center. When EPCOT Center was built the bases of the pylons were sunk in the ground to make it easier when the expansion happened. Some of those pylon bases were removed during the Mission Space construction. The Disney Village beam would have traveled out and in of EPCOT between Horizons and World of Motion and between Horizons and Energy. The current station was built to have a connecting mirror image second station with the exit ramp also dumping onto that long platform. If you look at the current EPCOT monorail station on the load side you can see that the station looks flat from the ground. That is where the 2 stations would have connected, sharing the current handicapped elevator. Back in the 80's I saw several versions of the Disney Village Monorail plans. My recollection is the monorail loop wasn't built because Disney asked and expected the hotel plaza hotels to put money into the monorail expansion but they refused.

 

[kgaf99]

ok. that makes sense. didnt know about those plans

 

[Goofyernmost]

either way i still hate that long platform exit bc it takes me a whole 60 seconds longer to enter my favorite park. EVERY SECOND COUNTS!!! doesn't disney know this?? LOL oh the humanity!!!!

Start out a minute sooner. See easy fix.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Then there is the expansion discussion which makes sense as well.....

found this info...

"The monorail expansion did NOT use the Transportation and Ticket Center (TTC) as a home-base, or a hub, for the monorail activity. That surprised me at first, given the TTC’s name. Instead, it used the existing Epcot station as a hub for future add-ons. That’s when I remembered: the Epcot station is already built to handle expansion. Haven’t you ever wondered why the walk to the exit ramp is so long? It’s because another “terminal” is supposed to go here."

"You people are standing in the future terminal!"

"The plan as written called for the monorail expansion to leave Epcot and circle off to the right (east), so as to swing by Port Orleans / Old Key West as a first stop. I can’t recall if Downtown Disney was on the route, but it might have been. The beam would then head back, stopping at Pop Century (and Disney’s Hollywood Studios? I can’t remember) before finally making its way to DAK. It could easily also stop at a future park near ESPN Wild World of Sports."

Either I'm missing something or that doesn't make sense.

If there were a monorail beam right next to this platform, which I'm disputing it is, then where does the beam go. If it goes straight down the platform, unless it's the end of the line, then it's going to plow right into the giant Epcot concrete station. If this was meant to go East it, towards DTD, then it'd make more sense for this to be built on the other side. It looks like a platform. I just don't think it really is one. I think it's just an over hang for the trams.

If you put a monorail beam next to it, I don't think it'd be high enough from the ground as in you could probably stand under it and touch the bottom of the beam (not that they couldn't fence it off, of course). It also wouldn't be low enough for the clearance ahead to make it under the platform and that'd be a pretty good dive for it to make.

 

[kgaf99]

Start out a minute sooner. See easy fix.

good point. didnt think of that one. lol

 

[kgaf99]

Either I'm missing something or that doesn't make sense.

If there were a monorail beam right next to this platform, which I'm disputing it is, then where does the beam go. If it goes straight down the platform, unless it's the end of the line, then it's going to plow right into the giant Epcot concrete station. If this was meant to go East it, towards DTD, then it'd make more sense for this to be built on the other side. It looks like a platform. I just don't think it really is one. I think it's just an over hang for the trams.

If you put a monorail beam next to it, I don't think it'd be high enough from the ground as in you could probably stand under it and touch the bottom of the beam (not that they couldn't fence it off, of course). It also wouldn't be low enough for the clearance ahead to make it under the platform and that'd be a pretty good dive for it to make.

i thought of that too and i can't explain that. it would make more sense to put the monorail on the east side of the station. i think i'm leaning more to the fact that they just had extra concrete and decided to build this massive station and have everyone wonder why they have to walk so far. lol.

personally i think the platform is fine and it is useful for the trams. but what they should have done is had an mirror ramp structure on the exit side and kept the tram platform separate from the whole dang station.....lol

 

[halltd]

Either I'm missing something or that doesn't make sense.

If there were a monorail beam right next to this platform, which I'm disputing it is, then where does the beam go. If it goes straight down the platform, unless it's the end of the line, then it's going to plow right into the giant Epcot concrete station. If this was meant to go East it, towards DTD, then it'd make more sense for this to be built on the other side. It looks like a platform. I just don't think it really is one. I think it's just an over hang for the trams.

This is exactly right. It may LOOK like a platform for another station, but it's not feasibly possible to actually BE a station. That's like people saying the center black parts of the Dolphin and Swan were meant for the monorails to go through them. Yeah it sounds cool, but it's not reality.

 

[Fordlover]

As for replacing an entire section, it's my understanding that the beams are not only precast, but post-tensioned through up to 6 spans. This means that removing one section of beam would be extremely difficult without a lot of shoring, de-tensioning tendons, etc. There is very little chance of them needing to do something so drastic, however, barring a major disaster.

not likely. The beams may very well be Post Tension concrete, but they would be tensioned long before they were moved onsite @ Disney. Otherwise they would have crumbled to bits during transport as they would be unreinforced concrete until they are tensioned. Replacing one section of beam should be a relatively straight forward process with proper planning, albeit very expensive.

Interestingly however post tension was in it's infancy in the 50's, and didn't get very popular in home construction until the 80's. I wonder if DL's beams are PT. I'm certain DW's are.

 

[sjhym333]

The long exit platform wasn't meant to be another station but the dumping point for the expansion if a second station was built. So both stations would dump onto the current ramp. Originally the thought was EPCOT Center would be a second hub (like TTC) with a second monorail loop to the Disney Village and possibly beyond in future expansion. Remember this is way before the decisions that created the Studios and the AK. The planners were doing a lot of guessing at the time.

 

[RedDad]

not likely. The beams may very well be Post Tension concrete, but they would be tensioned long before they were moved onsite @ Disney. Otherwise they would have crumbled to bits during transport as they would be unreinforced concrete until they are tensioned. Replacing one section of beam should be a relatively straight forward process with proper planning, albeit very expensive.

Interestingly however post tension was in it's infancy in the 50's, and didn't get very popular in home construction until the 80's. I wonder if DL's beams are PT. I'm certain DW's are.

Post-tensioned beams are not "unreinforced until they are tensioned." The tensioning causes "pre-loading" of compressive forces in the beam section's tension zones, thus increasing the overall bending strength of the beam over a long span. But the tensioning cables are not a form of reinforcement, per se. In fact, the beam section would have had quite a bit of other standard reinforcement cast into it during manufacturing off site.

Post-tensioning tendons are passed thru hollow conduits that are cast into the beam section, so that they do not bond with the concrete, thus allowing the tendons to be tensioned after the beam is installed. These beams were both pre-stressed and post-tensioned after installation, and were hollow in cross section. Post-tensioning thru multiple spans is fairly common. Whether WDW's were done in such fashion - I can only quote other sources that claim this is the case: