Mickey vs Mario as pop culture icons?

[jloucks]

Cable (Cartoon Network, disney, etc) replaced broadcast cartoons. Fcc changes in the 90s basically killed cartoons on broadcast and everything moved to dedicated networks.

Then as computers got into more homes they eventually got in the hands of youngsters by the 2000s… and in the last 15yrs its been the apple devices/tablets.

And of course now its video streaming….

To go off on a tangent, a lot of those niche channels then abandoned their namesake focus and did rando other things.

History channel used to be about history w' great documentaries. Now its Pawn Stars and Ancient Aliens
Discovery Channel is just as bad. Used to be an amazing STEM channel.
MTV is a shell of what it was. Now it is just 24/7 reality TV. ...but I do have a guilty pleasure with Ridiculousness
Animal Planet is drifting, but still tolerable.

Cartoon Network stayed true tho for the most part.

 

[jloucks]

Being popular and iconic aren’t the same thing. I don’t drink Coke, but the Coca-Cola logo is still one I instantly recognise.

That is a good point. I would however argue that Coke is both popular and iconic.

 

[LittleBuford]

That is a good point. I would however argue that Coke is both popular and iconic.

So is Mickey Mouse!

 

[Doberge]

Top 25 Highest Grossing IP’s

I saw this today and thought it was worthy of a topic! The images are of the highest grossing IP’s of all time, and it breaks down the revenue. Honestly surprised how much of Pokémon is merchandise:

www.elitefourum.com

A couple of things.

I could not tell you the difference between manga and anime. I've never even heard of Anpanman, and given the size that's shameful.

Disney Princess film revenue is such a small portion of total revenue because of merch. I think it shows how even when Disney might not make as much money on a film, or even loses money, that Disney never really loses money introducing a new IP. Popular films snowball profits downstream so poorly received films don't leave the profit Disney wants, but the bigger Disney company is never really going to "lose" money despite Studio losses.

I wouldn't have guesses that Cars has made more than Toy Story.

Combined Cars + Toy Story isnt far off Disney Princesses. I wonder if individual things like Frozen are lumped into Disney Princess or considered separate?

 

[jloucks]

A couple of things.

I could not tell you the difference between manga and anime.

It is just like it sounds... Anime is an animated cartoon you watch on a screen. Manga is a comic book.

 

[JohnD]

What? Namco had nothing to do with Donkey Kong. I've never even seen anyone suggest that they did.

The story is that Shigeru Miyamoto (who has only ever worked for Nintendo) wanted to do a game based on Popeye.
Bluto was the bad guy, and Olive Oyl was the damsel. They couldn't get the rights. So he genericized it.

Mario (originally called Jumpman in the game you posted the screenshot of) was based on the landlord of the warehouse in Redmond, WA that Nintendo of America rented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Segale

To answer your question: Mario is more popular in Japan than Mickey. Easy way to know this is because of Duffy. Why do you think Disney/OLC put tons of marketing into Duffy & Friends there? Because Duffy is more popular than Mickey, although that seems to be changing a bit more towards Mickey in the last few years.

You corrected me on Namco. Fine. It doesn't change my point that Donkey Kong was created in Japan and they picked Mario, an Italian, as their character to same the damsel in distress against the barrel thrown by Donkey Kong.

 

[JIMINYCR]

Mickey has never declined or fallen out of fashion and never will. The brand is too well cemented into our culture and day to day lives. Young kids are still growing up with Mickey and connecting with Mickey as they grow into adults.
Tell me where Mario merch is found in retail stores, grocery stores, and shops that carry kids clothing and toys. Wheres the Mario books, play sets, figurines, Mickey school supplies, hallmark cards, hallmark ornaments, representation in multiple Lego sets, Mickey jewelry, and hundreds of other things carrying Mickeys likeness.
Grocery stores carry Mickey ice cream bars, Mickey ice cream sandwiches, Mickey Goldfish, Mickey cookies, Mickey juice bottles, Mickey diapers and much more. Nope... no Mario found anywhere there.
Mickey likeness and brand can be found everywhere you search for him.
Mario will NEVER reach the heights Mickey has risen to and will NEVER become more popular or have the representation in our world that Mickey has.

 

[MickeyMomo]

Mickey has never declined or fallen out of fashion and never will. The brand is too well cemented into our culture and day to day lives. Young kids are still growing up with Mickey and connecting with Mickey as they grow into adults.
Tell me where Mario merch is found in retail stores, grocery stores, and shops that carry kids clothing and toys. Wheres the Mario books, play sets, figurines, Mickey school supplies, hallmark cards, hallmark ornaments, representation in multiple Lego sets, Mickey jewelry, and hundreds of other things carrying Mickeys likeness.
Grocery stores carry Mickey ice cream bars, Mickey ice cream sandwiches, Mickey Goldfish, Mickey cookies, Mickey juice bottles, Mickey diapers and much more. Nope... no Mario found anywhere there.
Mickey likeness and brand can be found everywhere you search for him.
Mario will NEVER reach the heights Mickey has risen to and will NEVER become more popular or have the representation in our world that Mickey has.

I agree that Mickey will never go away, but I would say that he is becoming much less loved by the general public, and certainly by children. (My previous post in this thread is awaiting moderator approval)

Mario does indeed have all of those things. Which I have found everywhere from Amazon to Walmart, at least here in Florida, and especially in stores like GameStop or independent "nerd culture" stores.
- Mario Time! Activity Book from Barnes & Noble
- Mario Playset with 5 characters and Princess Peach's Castle at GameStop
- Mario Figure from Nintendo, Movie Mario Figure at Walmart
- Mario School Supplies Bundle from Amazon
- Father's Day Mario Card, Valentine's Day Card, Multiple Ornament sets with Mario, Luigi, and Toad and even wrapping paper all from Hallmark
- An entire Mario Lego Line, with an electronic Mario figure that reacts to codes on the set in unique ways
- Mario Charm Bracelet from Amazon
- Mario Cereal, Gummies, Japan has lots of unique Mario snacks too from various providers, including Walmart
-And last but not least, there are Mario daipers. (I don't think these are official, but surely having knockoff diapers is a sign of some notability!)

In my estimation, Mario has certainly either met, or exceeded Mickey's popularity with people my age (20s) and younger.

 

[Kamikaze]

You corrected me on Namco. Fine. It doesn't change my point that Donkey Kong was created in Japan and they picked Mario, an Italian, as their character to same the damsel in distress against the barrel thrown by Donkey Kong.

The Nintendo of America employees chose Mario. Did you not read my post?

 

[Dead2009]

Mismanaged. Lack of new content and the growing concerns over sensitivity about the kind of humor depicted in those cartoons. Too much stuff that is no longer politically correct or considered suitable for kids.

They literally put out 5 seasons of the Looney Tunes stuff the last 2 years or so. Came out with Space Jam 2. Those characters have never been politically correct but kids still watched.

 

[Dead2009]

Mickey has never declined or fallen out of fashion and never will. The brand is too well cemented into our culture and day to day lives. Young kids are still growing up with Mickey and connecting with Mickey as they grow into adults.
Tell me where Mario merch is found in retail stores, grocery stores, and shops that carry kids clothing and toys. Wheres the Mario books, play sets, figurines, Mickey school supplies, hallmark cards, hallmark ornaments, representation in multiple Lego sets, Mickey jewelry, and hundreds of other things carrying Mickeys likeness.
Grocery stores carry Mickey ice cream bars, Mickey ice cream sandwiches, Mickey Goldfish, Mickey cookies, Mickey juice bottles, Mickey diapers and much more. Nope... no Mario found anywhere there.
Mickey likeness and brand can be found everywhere you search for him.
Mario will NEVER reach the heights Mickey has risen to and will NEVER become more popular or have the representation in our world that Mickey has.

This is incorrect. WHen you think of Nintendo, you dont think of Zelda or Samus right away, you think of Mario.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

No.

 

[UNCgolf]

I have such a hard time believing that Pokemon beats Star Wars and Harry Potter. Shoot, almost combined.

Hello Kitty, I am not as surprised. It was a big deal in Europe when I was growing up. Never caught on big in the U.S. Maybe that is the deal with Pokemon too. Maybe big deal in Asia?

I'm not sure how useful this actually is as a measure of general popularity. For one, it's combining a bunch of disparate sources -- video game sales, box office results, and merchandise sales are wildly different measures with different factors at play.

There's also the concept of whales -- that's not going to skew results significantly on a chart like this where the overall numbers are as big as they are, but there are individual people who are spending tens of thousands of dollars on some of these things.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I wonder if individual things like Frozen are lumped into Disney Princess or considered separate?

Frozen was considered successful enough to be its own separate brand for licensing and merchandise.

Conceptually and thematically, it's Princess adjacent, but Anna and Elsa are not official Disney Princesses for this reason.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Well, as you mentioned mickey kinda went dormant for long periods… yet here he are nearly 60yrs later asking ‘who is more relevant?’ - so clearly Mickey has overcome periods of being a figure more than his own content originator.

I could bring up Betty Boop and I bet everyone reading this would know who she is (of course, there's always one... ). I don't think you'd get any argument that she's relevant today.

You're right about all of the TV regulations and the idiot stuff we had during the late 1970s and 1980s where you'd see Elmer pick up a gun and the next scene would be Daffy's bill spinning around his face. It was so dumb. You don't have to make everything safe. Kids are smart.

I'm having a hard time describing the story changes but the old (vaudeville) bits were more like, "Wouldn't it be funny if..." and they'd just have a bit, regardless of length, putting the characters into specific situations and doing a couple of gags and then wrapping it up. Those were golden.

Around 1965 or so there was a shift to tell more "relatable" stories, almost like a sitcom, where they characters were just living their normal lives and then something happens, they deal with it, and it wraps up at the end. These always felt super thin with regards to entertainment. Almost like some executive said, "I need a cartoon of Bugs just going about his day and then this happens..." Details are less important than primary colors flashing before kids' eyes so we can sell Sugaroos brand cereal.

It's nuanced but a very distinct difference.

 

[Brad Bishop]

That is a good point. I would however argue that Coke is both popular and iconic.

Coke is not as popular as it once was. I believe their main drink now is: water.

People have steered away from the colas because of the health aspects of it and people becoming fat. I think a lot of this has more to do with the sedentary lifestyle as kids used to drink Coke/Pepsi all the time in the 1970s and burn it off later that day (they'd also drink a 12oz bottle vs 32oz/44oz today).

Still, while Coke is something most people will recognize, I don't think it's as relevant as it was during the 1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s (those of us who survived the cola wars will remember).

 

[FutureCEO]

Mickey is more universal.

 

[NickMaio]

Random thoughts about the relative ability for anyone in the world to recognize characters, I believe Mickey Mouse has usually been the most recognizable in surveys but I bet Mario is close.

What's interesting to me is that for a long time, outside of the theme parks, Mickey didn't really have a lot of media on his own. There was the recent Mickey Mouse shorts and the kids show but in the 80's, 90's...not much? (or I entirely missed it). Mickey does get a lot of built-in credit for being the face of Disney as a whole and on tons of marketing material and just the logo itself.

Mario on the other hand didn't have any theme park presence until recently but has been featured in dozens of video games since the early 1980's (featured first in Donkey Kong), cartoons, live action (wishing I could ignore the 90's Super Mario movie but it is there). He's also become a cultural icon outside of just the games themselves, but I think due to the sheer volume of how many Mario games have been sold (hundreds of millions) and it reaches a wide demographic....or wide for those probably under 50 years old.

Mickey probably has far greater reach in popularity for people who grew up before the 1980's.

It's just something interesting to think about for me since Mario is now joining the theme park realm and also had a very successful movie recently. I think Mario is still extremely popular and Mickey is maintaining his popularity.

Younger Kids- teens - 20 something - Mario for the win.
Older 30's-40's-50's+ - Mickey

 

[Andrew25]

Younger Kids- teens - 20 something - Mario for the win.
Older 30's-40's-50's+ - Mickey

Bingo

People starting to raise their own families grew up with Nintendo as their main form of entertainment, and I'd imagine are passing on to their children their interest in them.

Universal made a heck of a deal with Nintendo that I'd imagine Disney wishes they could have landed

 

[ChrisFL]

Younger Kids- teens - 20 something - Mario for the win.
Older 30's-40's-50's+ - Mickey

I don't know I still think it skews older for Mickey...I'm 45 years old and grew up with Nintendo and Mario since I was around 7 years old. If I hadn't been local to WDW I probably would have much less Mickey Mouse related knowledge other than the mouse logo everywhere.