Mickey vs Mario as pop culture icons?

[ChrisFL]

Random thoughts about the relative ability for anyone in the world to recognize characters, I believe Mickey Mouse has usually been the most recognizable in surveys but I bet Mario is close.

What's interesting to me is that for a long time, outside of the theme parks, Mickey didn't really have a lot of media on his own. There was the recent Mickey Mouse shorts and the kids show but in the 80's, 90's...not much? (or I entirely missed it). Mickey does get a lot of built-in credit for being the face of Disney as a whole and on tons of marketing material and just the logo itself.

Mario on the other hand didn't have any theme park presence until recently but has been featured in dozens of video games since the early 1980's (featured first in Donkey Kong), cartoons, live action (wishing I could ignore the 90's Super Mario movie but it is there). He's also become a cultural icon outside of just the games themselves, but I think due to the sheer volume of how many Mario games have been sold (hundreds of millions) and it reaches a wide demographic....or wide for those probably under 50 years old.

Mickey probably has far greater reach in popularity for people who grew up before the 1980's.

It's just something interesting to think about for me since Mario is now joining the theme park realm and also had a very successful movie recently. I think Mario is still extremely popular and Mickey is maintaining his popularity.

 

[JohnD]

Random thoughts about the relative ability for anyone in the world to recognize characters, I believe Mickey Mouse has usually been the most recognizable in surveys but I bet Mario is close.

What's interesting to me is that for a long time, outside of the theme parks, Mickey didn't really have a lot of media on his own. There was the recent Mickey Mouse shorts and the kids show but in the 80's, 90's...not much? (or I entirely missed it). Mickey does get a lot of built-in credit for being the face of Disney as a whole and on tons of marketing material and just the logo itself.

Mario on the other hand didn't have any theme park presence until recently but has been featured in dozens of video games since the early 1980's (featured first in Donkey Kong), cartoons, live action (wishing I could ignore the 90's Super Mario movie but it is there). He's also become a cultural icon outside of just the games themselves, but I think due to the sheer volume of how many Mario games have been sold (hundreds of millions) and it reaches a wide demographic....or wide for those probably under 50 years old.

Mickey probably has far greater reach in popularity for people who grew up before the 1980's.

It's just something interesting to think about for me since Mario is now joining the theme park realm and also had a very successful movie recently. I think Mario is still extremely popular and Mickey is maintaining his popularity.

I wonder which is more famous in Japan: Mickey or Mario. When the Japanese company Namco developed Donkey Kong, who knew they would pick an Italian character to go up against an ape?

 

[JIMINYCR]

I dont think MIckey's giving up the spot anytime soon. Yes Mario's got video game presence but Mickey's video game presence is there too. Disney + features both old and new versions of Mickey cartoons. Think of all the merch Mickey is featured in in grocery stores and retail stores. Then add in all the Disney parks world wide that keep attracting old and new guests that drives his popularity ever higher. Theres a never ending flow of new Mickey fans each year as families go Disney.
Yes Mario has popularity but Mickey is the reigning king and will never give up the thone as long as Disney brand exists to keep him relevant.

 

[Kamikaze]

I wonder which is more famous in Japan: Mickey or Mario. When the Japanese company Namco developed Donkey Kong, who knew they would pick an Italian character to go up against an ape?

What? Namco had nothing to do with Donkey Kong. I've never even seen anyone suggest that they did.

The story is that Shigeru Miyamoto (who has only ever worked for Nintendo) wanted to do a game based on Popeye.
Bluto was the bad guy, and Olive Oyl was the damsel. They couldn't get the rights. So he genericized it.

Mario (originally called Jumpman in the game you posted the screenshot of) was based on the landlord of the warehouse in Redmond, WA that Nintendo of America rented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Segale

To answer your question: Mario is more popular in Japan than Mickey. Easy way to know this is because of Duffy. Why do you think Disney/OLC put tons of marketing into Duffy & Friends there? Because Duffy is more popular than Mickey, although that seems to be changing a bit more towards Mickey in the last few years.

 

[flynnibus]

today many may recognize mario… but far more have had some connection with something mickey/disney

 

[Robbiem]

Mickey is more universal. The three circle design is instantly recognisable like the Nike tick or coke ribbon.

What I think is interesting is now Bugs Bunny has faded away. When I was growing ip in the 70s/80s he was at least as popular as Mickey, Tom and Jerry probably the same

 

[wdwfan4ver]

I wonder which is more famous in Japan: Mickey or Mario. When the Japanese company Namco developed Donkey Kong, who knew they would pick an Italian character to go up against an ape?

Namco didn't create Donkey Kong at all and didn't release the game. Namco's most famous video game before the 90s was Pac-man and 2nd being Galaga. I did not say Ms. Pac-man because Namco didn't create Ms. Pac-man and ms. pac-man originally was released by Midway.

Pac-man was very famous in pop culture during the first half of the 80s, but Pac-man's popularity took a dive and Mario is the most famous video game character out there.

 

[flynnibus]

What I think is interesting is now Bugs Bunny has faded away. When I was growing ip in the 70s/80s he was at least as popular as Mickey, Tom and Jerry probably the same

Mismanaged. Lack of new content and the growing concerns over sensitivity about the kind of humor depicted in those cartoons. Too much stuff that is no longer politically correct or considered suitable for kids.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Mismanaged. Lack of new content and the growing concerns over sensitivity about the kind of humor depicted in those cartoons. Too much stuff that is no longer politically correct or considered suitable for kids.

I think it's arguable now that Mario is more relevant than Mickey or Bugs Bunny.

Essentially, Disney and Warner Bros, stopped investing in their character line and now it's largely a lot of "has been" stuff. Yes, you being Disney fans may love good ole' Mickey Mouse. Others may recognize him. They want to play with Mario, however. Mario, for the most part, is what they grew up with. Nintendo has kept Mario relevant over the last almost 4 decades.

I think two main things have negatively impacted both Bugs and Mickey:
1) The let the Executives decide what goes into cartoons and they like to play it safe and dumb it down for kids to where it isn't enjoyable / not the same fun as the old stuff. This has been going on since the late 1960s. You can see a distinct difference in fun and quality (especially in the Warner Bros cartoons) starting around 1965 or so. The cartoons had to be "safe" - and they were... and they were boring.

If they (both Disney and WB) had just let their creative teams do their jobs both would have had more memorable classic cartoons over the last 50 years.

2) They simply stopped investing in their characters/cartoons. Again, around 1965 or so there was a distinct change in direction and also, as these cartoons weren't doing as well as the past, they let those animation teams kind of die off / got rid of them. You can see this problem right now with the lack of 2D animation talent that Disney has - they got rid of them.

You have a few bright spots such as: Mickey's Christmas Carol and Runaway Brain (both of which were Disney's answer to Mickey not being as relevant) but, if you look, largely, at how Mickey was placed to the public, he was there for preschoolers on Disney Jr... Not being funny.. Not having adventures, but explaining the basics to kids and he kind of earned that reputation now.

Early on Mickey was a rascal. Then he developed into an "everyman" with just normal life adventures.

Even the newest Mickey cartoons, where the art style was drastically different, really didn't make him more relevant. I think it turned off a number of people ("That's not MY Mickey Mouse") and it was off-the-shelf storytelling (like Looney Tunes had become since 1965).

Before 1965 Looney Tunes was vaudeville. It was funny. A cartoon was only long enough that it needed to be and the artists were allowed to be bold and put adult jokes into it. Somewhere around 1965/1970 they started making cartoons for kids and the story had to fit into a particular time slot and funny stuff was more what would appeal to a 6yo kid rather than something that would appeal across the board (show them bright flashing colors and they'll giggle and watch).

Perhaps best put: It was like the difference between an artist saying:
"Wouldn't it be funny if we had Bugs and Daffy go through the Jack and the Beanstalk tale with Elmer as the giant but he's kinda dumb..."
and
"What's the story for this week? What lesson can we teach the kids who are watching?"

...They weren't starting off with, "Wouldn't it be funny..." but just trying to fill a time slot with some contrived story.

 

[LittleBuford]

Show a picture of Mario to a 90-year-old in some remote village and I bet they wouldn’t know who he is. Do the same with a picture of Mickey and they would instantly recognise him.

Mickey is a truly global icon.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

It depends on the generation your talking about. Mario is not well know to the aging baby boomers.

Video games started in the 70s and Mario made his debut in 1981 as Jumpman.

Mickey Mouse's popularity already peaked and is in the decline although I think Mickey Mouse is more popular than Mario.

 

[LittleBuford]

It depends on the generation your talking about. Mario is not well know to the aging baby boomers.

Video games started in the 70s and Mario made his debut in 1981 as Jumpman.

Mickey Mouse's popularity already peaked and is in the decline although I think Mickey Mouse is more popular than Mario.

Being popular and iconic aren’t the same thing. I don’t drink Coke, but the Coca-Cola logo is still one I instantly recognise.

 

[flynnibus]

I think it's arguable now that Mario is more relevant than Mickey or Bugs Bunny.

Well, as you mentioned mickey kinda went dormant for long periods… yet here he are nearly 60yrs later asking ‘who is more relevant?’ - so clearly Mickey has overcome periods of being a figure more than his own content originator.

To the rest of your post and the style of content… it’s because the format changed as TV changed the theater model… lawsuits and changes to the theatre model killed shorts… reducing budgets for animation… and later the moral regulation and standards cartoon studios applied in the 60s and 70s to avoid even further scrutiny.

It didn’t make sense to our generation at the time… but most of what we knew of WB and Disney cartoons was already decades old and just repackaged… even tho we all knew bugs/daffy/etc from every Saturday morning…

Mario is fresher and probably more significant to younger generations now than a Bugs bunny simply because its really been basically 30yrs since Saturday morning cartoons were significant. New content for cable replaced that mindshare for people under the age of 35.

But there are still a ton of people older than that

 

[networkpro]

IMHO one of the things that has changed is how children engage with characters. Which media ? Well the public broadcast linear networks have few if any animated offerings, comic books for children almost non existent, so that leaves video games and online content for home consumption.

 

[Minthorne]

Most popular? It’sa me! Mickio!

 

[MickeyMomo]

I agree with others that Mickey's popularity is on the decline. When was the last time he was featured in a theatrical release? To my knowledge, (and quick wikipedia check) it's The Three Musketeers (2004), which I have a dusty old VHS copy of somewhere. He's been kind of pushed away from being a fully realized and loveable character to instead being seen as either: 1) Merchandise or 2) Evil Corporate Mascot. He simply isn't around in most people's daily lives enough unless you or someone you live with are Disney fans and choose to seek out that older content. Most streaming numbers on Disney+ are for Bluey, Marvel shows, and Grey's Anatomy. (source)

Meanwhile, The Super Mario Bros Movie was just in theaters and it broke Frozen II's box-office record, has steady releases on the best selling video game console of the generation with overwhelming critical acclaim, new theme park presence in Japan and California with Orlando on the way, and so much more... I just visited Japan recently and Mario was everywhere. I think that all of this gives kids more opportunities to create a bond with Mario instead of Mickey, who might as well just be some design on a T-shirt.

 

[flynnibus]

IMHO one of the things that has changed is how children engage with characters. Which media ? Well the public broadcast linear networks have few if any animated offerings, comic books for children almost non existent, so that leaves video games and online content for home consumption.

Cable (Cartoon Network, disney, etc) replaced broadcast cartoons. Fcc changes in the 90s basically killed cartoons on broadcast and everything moved to dedicated networks.

Then as computers got into more homes they eventually got in the hands of youngsters by the 2000s… and in the last 15yrs its been the apple devices/tablets.

And of course now its video streaming….

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Top 25 Highest Grossing IP’s

I saw this today and thought it was worthy of a topic! The images are of the highest grossing IP’s of all time, and it breaks down the revenue. Honestly surprised how much of Pokémon is merchandise:

www.elitefourum.com

 

[jloucks]

Top 25 Highest Grossing IP’s

I saw this today and thought it was worthy of a topic! The images are of the highest grossing IP’s of all time, and it breaks down the revenue. Honestly surprised how much of Pokémon is merchandise:

www.elitefourum.com

I have such a hard time believing that Pokemon beats Star Wars and Harry Potter. Shoot, almost combined.

Hello Kitty, I am not as surprised. It was a big deal in Europe when I was growing up. Never caught on big in the U.S. Maybe that is the deal with Pokemon too. Maybe big deal in Asia?

 

[Andrew25]

I have such a hard time believing that Pokemon beats Star Wars and Harry Potter. Shoot, almost combined.

Hello Kitty, I am not as surprised. It was a big deal in Europe when I was growing up. Never caught on big in the U.S. Maybe that is the deal with Pokemon too. Maybe big deal in Asia?

Go to a kids' section at Target/Walmart and see just how much merch Pokemon pushes...

There's an entire generation now, becoming parents now too, that grew up primarily on video games and Pokemon was at the forefront for some of them.