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Mickey Mouse Monopoly [WARNING: LONG READ]

khelinski

New Member
Original Poster
Reader's note: I am going to be truthful and honest with hardly any bias. I grew up with Disney, been to the parks many times, and even worked at EPCOT for a year. What I am about to say is both factual (look it up), and an observation from my own perceptive. I am leaning towards both sides, and while I will debate the 'against', I won't rule out 'the truth'. Debate – argue – defend – agree – disagree. This is a controversial 'take it, leave it' critique of 'Mickey Mouse Monopoly', as well as a little bit of insight on the side.

'Mickey Mouse Monopoly'. You can google it, youtube it – it isn't too hard to find. It's an anti-Disney documentary that appears to be created for educational purposes, that goes in some (but not complete) details regarding the shortcomings of Walter Elias Disney's 'magical' empire. The 52-minute, 2001 doc goes in the same formula used in later films 'Fahrenheit 9/11' and 'This Film is Not Yet Rated', arguments – both strong and weak, against the topic at hand. In this case, Disney is the main focus. What this doc doesn't do, which 'Jesus Camp' does so flawlessly, is to turn the camera on and just observe, instead of giving commentary. By not giving bias commentary, it leaves the viewer with their own questions/ideas/and thoughts, rather than filling the minds with jargon. Now, I admire '9/11' and 'Rated' but understand its bias slant. The whole idea is to enlighten, provide information, and give both sides a chance to state their case. That's something you learn from journalism 101. Film doesn't always follow those same ethics.

On the other hand, we seen the 'Disney' side giving their own slant on its own existence, somewhat blinded by the very nature it sometimes stumbles on. So this doc does have some merit. And its arguments can't go unnoticed.

The doc starts from the getgo, a powerful empire that controls most of our mass media/pop culture/and everything else in between. While it does not suggest, it is very certain – the Disney Company is as much powerful, but wealthier than America's very own government. I think, and this is just my opinion, that the Disney Company is actually much larger and powerful than Big Brother.

Think of any movie/TV show that is un-Disney related yet has a Disney references somewhere down the line. It is in our culture. And it's hard to think of the world without Disney, and the many fruits Disney has planted for us.

The doc than slightly touches (but strangely not fully) upon Disney's pride over its characters. We hear it all the time. The little guy (say, a nursery) wants to use Disney's characters by painting (or drawing) characters on a wall. Disney steps in, and says, 'can't do that, or we'll sue'. What the doc doesn't cover (which I am deeply surprised), is how Disney 'lifted" ideas from folk/beloved short stories/and fairy tales – makes it their own. Okay. Sometimes they acknowledge it (in the Walt days, he respected those he 'lifted' from – though, there is some new controversy over who actually came up with the name, 'Mickey Mouse'). But during the day's post-Walt's death, Disney got sloppy in that department.

'The Lion King', Disney's biggest blockbuster of all time, is actually a complete knock off of 'Kimba, the White Lion'. Some argue that is not true. But if you look at some frame-by-frame comparison's, spot-on match. And going even deeper, look at the history behind 'Kimba, the White Lion' and Disney – you soon realize that there was going to be a movie adaptation of the beloved Japanese TV show, but that deal soon got shaky (not sure why). And Disney ended up using the show as a major influence, anyhow (without proper credit). Certainly wouldn't be the last time Disney 'lifts' from others. However, what movie studio hasn't done this?!?! Should I even mention 'Lord of the Rings' in space (aka 'Star Wars'?!?!)

What the doc does end up covering, which is a good portion of its arguments, is the sexist/raciest argument we have heard before against Disney. I also can't rule this out. If anyone has ever seen 'Song of the South', you know there is some truth behind this. And my only defense is somewhat weak, but fairly true.

It's hard to do a film, or even have a conversation – and not have the concept of stereotype race in your mind. We, as humans, like to categorize everything. That's why animals have their own groups and names. That's why we organize EVERYTHING. We get confused, and we want order. And that's why race exists. Plus, and the utmost truth – we can't see beyond skin color. Black, white, and everything in-between – we (as a whole) will never look pass skin color. So making a film, TV show is hard to do, because you are stepping into a sensitive subject. 'There aren't that many – and when there, they are stereotype.'

While Disney has been under fire for many years about this, what bothers me is it seems it's JUST Disney (in which, the doc suggests). Mind you, Hollywood in general, has always been stereotyping race – LONG before Walt got his start in showbiz. So this argument, although, it can't be disputed, is lousy since ALL fingers should be pointed. Hollywood has always glamorized things. Men have to be manly. Women have to be feminine, and sexy. Race is organized by groups. And stereotyping goes as cliché goes. Anyone that knows history, pop culture, and film – knows this all too well.

To be fair, Disney IS finally going to make a film about a black princess ['The Princess and the Frog'] – due next year. It's progress (and seeing how things are going in the political world), it's progress that has happened a little later than it should have, but progress is happening nonetheless.

The same goes with 'the perfect male' and 'the perfect female' debate. Once upon a time, we lived in a 'man's world'. Then civil liberties kicked in. That has improved greatly over the years. Many changes have taken place. Yet there will always be the clash between the sexes. I don't think this doc covers much upon that, but does briefly touch upon 'perfect male'/'perfect female' [prince/princess]. Stop! Don't blame Disney. Blame our own pop culture that thrives on ______ appeal, beauty on the outside, and weight loss. Disney is far from being blamed about this. Yes, it should have taught kids better (it finally has with 'Lilo & Stitch'). Then again, it is fairly tale by its definition. And as a shallow country we are – we live in our own fairly tale world. But that's getting into a whole other discussion right there.

The next argument is the message toward kids about misinterpreted history and values. 'Pocahontas' was a big focus here. I also can't argue that. Besides some cute songs and really classy animation, 'Pocahontas' is a horrible display of American history. However, is it meant to be a history lesson to kids? Should they be seeing 'The New World' instead in school? How about 'Dances With Wolves'? Unfortunately, no film that shows the true brutality between Natives and 'white man' exists in Hollywood. That would actually suggest that America, the proud, was founded under sin: our own version of the Holocaust if you will.

When I was in elementary – it was said that Natives were here first. Europeans came along. And many years later, Europeans multiple – while Natives decreased. No explanation on how or why. Just that. Soon after, the American Revolution up to Civil War was covered.

You want to point fingers toward this weak argument, how about looking at our own schools bias attempts to not acknowledge a FACT. This part of the doc made me sick to my stomach, since it suggests its Disney's fault kids isn't being taught the proper history.

Next up – commercialism. True. Very true. This documentary, again, was released in 2001. Before 'High School Musical' and 'Hannah Montana'. Those two names alone, is the very definition of commercialism. And it is VERY SICK. So much, that I am even seeing 'Hannah Montana' bottle water and 'High School Musical' Eggos. Do we really need that?

If you think of it though – give me any big movie/TV show/music band, etc-etc, and not see commercialism. Disney is a huge empire that controls part of the mass media (fact), which pushes things down peoples throats (true), and is the only company that has high success on its merchandise (false). 'The Beatles'. 'Star Wars'. 'Spiderman'. 'American Idol'. '______ and the City'. Coca-Cola. Christmas. Religion *gasp, won't go there!* The list goes on and on.

To give you a prime example – two movies that came out this year: 'The Dark Knight' and 'Tropic Thunder'. In 'Tropic Thunder', there is a scene where we see a studio head discuss about what 'could' happen if a star of a movie died tragically. Success? Failure? How surreal is that, as I can't be certain, but I am sure a similar discussion was made with Warner Brothers execs after the tragic loss of Heath Ledger. And since the success of the film, what have we seen? The studio milking EVERYTHING they could gain from that movie. It's no secret; a lot of the success came from the death. And it's no secret, while 'exploiting' is a very strong word – commercialism can't be ruled out here. And if you debate me on this – just look at the marketing behind 'The Crow' years ago, for a good eye-opener. In truth, the studios milk all their fortune for more fortune. And in truth, we eat it all up. We wrap it up with this belief, 'it's what they would want'. But I am sure both Heath Ledger and Brandon Lee wouldn't want the complete over-the-top exploitation that has occurred from their deaths (and is still going strong). It's that sad illusion of art versus business. And if anything could describe the legacy of Disney, it's art AND business.

What I am surprised this documentary doesn't cover, is the sweatshops Disney has all over the world. However, seeing how this was made by an Hong Kong filmmaker, I can sense that's a sensitive subject. And in case you want to boycott Disney for this tiny little micro issue, I suggest boycotting Wall-Mart as well. And while you are at it, go around your house and look for anything that has MADE IN CHINA on it. If so, have a bon-fire in your backyard and start burning it all for the cause. I know you won't, so no need to go further here…this is a subject that will never be resolved (sad, but true).

What I am also surprised, is this doc doesn't cover the many flaws to Disney's parks. The non-deaths that NEVER happens at 'the happiest place on Earth'. The non-deaths of the animals that never were killed on Disney grounds. The cast members that always are appreciated with lay-offs, decreased hours, lousy pay, crappy benefits, and always spit on by superiors. I witnessed a lot of this while I was employed by the mouse. As I was seeing this, I utterly resented the mouse, but seemed to forget that this is happening EVERYWHERE. For one thing, deaths happen everywhere. Even at Disney. And it is bad press to report death tolls at the park you want people to visit.

In local news, it's very common to see Ford/GM/ect-ect, lay off a lot of people because of horrible automobile sells. I love the excuses they make. 'It's because Americans buy foreign cars'. They tend to ignore the fact that these American pioneers, once ruled the streets with their fantastic cars, has made crappy cheap cars that breaks down often within the last decade or so.

Going back to the Disney parks, it's amazing how pricey the parks are, as well as the goodies that one buys in the parks. Of course, we all hear about 'magical moments'. But we rarely hear about those accounts of families getting into heated arguments during quitting-time after spending so much money on their children. And yes, this much is true. As a matter of fact, I learned that a lot of families either max out their cards (which isn't a Disney thing – it's an American thing). While others save a Disney's vacations worth for a few years, not doing ANYTHING during those few years, and have enough saved up just to afford that one week paradise through 'happy land'.

Clearly, I've seen the ugly side of Disney. And that did change the outlook I once had for those wondrous 'magical' parks. It's all an illusion, much like the films these parks inspire from. But what this doc misses, as well as my outlook as I was seeing these bad sides of Disney – that's the point, an illusion.

I quote Steven Spielberg…

''Once I could make films, I found I could 'create' a great day or a great week just by creating a story; I could synthesize my life. It's just the same reason writers get started, so that they can improve the world or fix it. I found I could do anything or live anywhere via my imagination, through film."

If you look at Walter Elias Disney's life, you start seeing how every key piece fits (then). Maybe he was a raciest. Maybe he was a little sexist. But remember now, he was born in a different time. Look at Alfred Hitchcock movies. Hardly any black people in his films. They all presented women as sexy-type. Yet, do you see much argument against him?

My point is this: Disney has always been under fire for many things, but clearly – the things that actually mattered go unnoticed (and unspoken). While silly little arguments are made, that hasn't been thought real clearly. Point fingers at ALL THINGS. I would rather have a child absorb a Disney movie, than turn on the news. Disney isn't to blame on mass media, but mass media itself.

If one argument can be made against Disney that has and hasn't been mentioned – I say why spend so much money on unnecessary sequels to classic films that don't need sequels in the first place? I mean, seriously – do we really need 'Fox and the Hound 2'? 'Cinderella 2' (or '3')? 'Bambi 2'? Walt Disney must really be proud of the geniuses creating these 'magical' masterpieces.

In the end, Disney has its shortcomings. It's a powerful empire that does control a lot. Sometimes, maybe even what you think, say, and do. In hindsight, that sounds like a government to me. But some miss the point that it's how our culture works. The music you listen to. The movies you watch. The TV's you live by. It's what keeps our pop culture going. It is pop culture. It's the very nature of success. And it presents what we all want: entertainment.

Unless you've been living under a rock, some way/shape/form, you grew up with Disney (or of a Disney incarnation). Like it or not, it's part of our lives, and part of our society. Whether you want this documentary to change your outlook, all depends on how much context you believe in.

I applaud that this exists. It shows a different side of the coin, a side that sometimes gets ignored. But there are many coins that need to be looked upon at from both sides. Disney isn't the only cooperate American company that is corrupt. Why should we be so focused on Disney?

Think of all the memories you had with those beloved movies. Or going to the parks as a kid. Those are what Disney calls, 'magical moments'. Yes, an illusion it is. But that's the point. In an insane world we live in – nothing is wrong with a little 'magic'. And you know what – as much of the dark side I've seen working at Disney for the length of time I was there, I also witnessed the good side too. The look on a little child's face as they walk through 'happy land'. Disney had a vision. It may be misguided now – but to a child's perceptive, it's the one thing they can always count on.

Another argument could be made that Disney parks isn't truly 'the happiest place on Earth'. A family can save so much dough, just by taking the family to the beach – or camp for a weekend (or a week). True. Very true. In fact, I recommend that. But there is nothing wrong with going to the Disney parks at least once in a lifetime.

The whole essence of the Disney parks has always been the idea of a clean amusement park for the kids, as also for adults. The quality entertainment that's attached to these parks are what makes the whole package deal worthwhile. And yes, the sugarcoated fake approach of always smiling and being nice is a little overkill – but does attract business. I wish all types of business had the Disney approach (or, should I say, 'basics'). Yes. the price is a little crazy nowadays. But I doubt Uncle Walt would predict how the economy changed in time. That's why I think some people are crazy in going to these parks often. It should be once every five/ten years. Or, twice in a lifetime. Once, as a kid. And another time, with your kids. That is what makes those parks so special.

And as for the race/sexist card, that resides in our culture. The Disney movies are just a mirror perception of how race is looked upon. That is the very concept of stereotype. While I won't rule out the wrong in it – I also won't rule out how that is just how the world works. Yes, Disney should teach kids better. Luckily, that is where 'Sesame Street' comes in at. And certainly, without Disney and its impact on our culture – incarnations of Disney wouldn't exist.

I bet the filmmakers of this doc didn't think about that…

Anyhow - just curious if anyone sees or acknowledges the bad side - but still loves this humble company just the same (more like a bitter sweet love)?
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Such a long post, and no replies yet? :o


I just read it all. ;)

It's interesting. I am not so much into 'Disney is evil' theories. They reek of 'Conspircay Theory Light' to me.

Having said that, Disney is a major corporation, with a tremendous cultural impact. And as big corporations go, their motive is not altruistic. Disney makes decisions that I approve of, some that I don't, and some that I find cynical. But not sinister.

Ah, Disney is like McDonald's. To some, the evil face of capitalism. Bend on global domination or undermining our values or something. To others, just a large corporation with a great cultural impact, but rather less sinister than that.
 

raven

Well-Known Member
The problem I see with Disney is that it creates it's own negative publicity. Disney holds it'self on such high standards that it creates problems for itself. ALL companies have problems but most people see Disney as a sugar-coated reality...which is what Disney created anyway.

So everything has come full circle again, and again, and again, and for eternity. :(
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
There will always be nay-sayers and nothing is perfect.Disney is close to perfection but with that comes some negatives as well.


To be honest...was there really a point to this...?:shrug:

No offence,of course.:o
 

khelinski

New Member
Original Poster
There will always be nay-sayers and nothing is perfect.Disney is close to perfection but with that comes some negatives as well.


To be honest...was there really a point to this...?:shrug:

No offence,of course.:o

To be honest, did you even read the thread entirely? Or are you one of those blinded people that is so sure that Disney is pure, that you won't even acknowledges its own OBVIOUS flaws. Disney is far from 'close to perfection'. That's not nay-saying. That's FACT! :rolleyes:

The problem I see with Disney is that it creates it's own negative publicity. Disney holds it'self on such high standards that it creates problems for itself. ALL companies have problems but most people see Disney as a sugar-coated reality...which is what Disney created anyway.

So everything has come full circle again, and again, and again, and for eternity. :(

Very true. And I saw it with my own eyes. In fact, a lot of CPs joke about when a person is either injured or killed on Disney grounds, Disney goes out of their way to change the slant so a person died (or got injured) in the hospital instead of on Disney grounds (and this is very true, look up the records if you want solid proof).

But I do understand why Disney does throw everything under their rug. It is bad press. And Disney takes a lot of pride in their 'basic' values and great customer service.

The idea may be 'close to perfection'. But sometimes you kind of wonder if Mister Uncle Walt himself would be proud of what has come about over the years. And you also kind of wonder if those that is in-charge of this magical empire, has forgotten what Walt's intentions were. :shrug:
 

KeithVH

Well-Known Member
You know, except for some specific movie references, I could paste any other Fortune 500 name to replace Disney and YOUR arguments would still be applicable. It smacks of a little too much X-Files watching. It likes you WANT something to be wrong.

The problem is, your reasoning is specious. Because something "bad" can be found about some aspect of the activity related to a given company, it must follow that the whole company and all related to it must be evil. Considering some of the other references you make about documentaries, I'll make certain judgements about you. Because you reference them, you must think the same way those who made the documentaries. This is the same methodology you display. Ergo, your conclusions are so suspect that, besides a little bit of entertaining reading, it means little else. You pick a few known/common obvious issues that have been rehashed to death. Name me ANY entity in known history that doesn't have the same. Does that make ALL of them evil? I'm sure you feel the same about Jewish slave labor by Volkswagen (well documented) - have you posted a diatribe about VW on an automotive enthusiast site?

This is not to say you are absolutely wrong. Just that you've done a terrible job trying to convince me you're right. I would prefer to see more logic constructs that actually demonstrate key points rather than vague "it must be so" type of statements. Not "A might equal B and B is sorta the same as C so A must equal C". I 'd hate to have to defend a thesis based on this in front of committee.
 

khelinski

New Member
Original Poster
You know, except for some specific movie references, I could paste any other Fortune 500 name to replace Disney and YOUR arguments would still be applicable. It smacks of a little too much X-Files watching. It likes you WANT something to be wrong.

The problem is, your reasoning is specious. Because something "bad" can be found about some aspect of the activity related to a given company, it must follow that the whole company and all related to it must be evil. Considering some of the other references you make about documentaries, I'll make certain judgements about you. Because you reference them, you must think the same way those who made the documentaries. This is the same methodology you display. Ergo, your conclusions are so suspect that, besides a little bit of entertaining reading, it means little else. You pick a few known/common obvious issues that have been rehashed to death. Name me ANY entity in known history that doesn't have the same. Does that make ALL of them evil? I'm sure you feel the same about Jewish slave labor by Volkswagen (well documented) - have you posted a diatribe about VW on an automotive enthusiast site?

This is not to say you are absolutely wrong. Just that you've done a terrible job trying to convince me you're right. I would prefer to see more logic constructs that actually demonstrate key points rather than vague "it must be so" type of statements. Not "A might equal B and B is sorta the same as C so A must equal C". I 'd hate to have to defend a thesis based on this in front of committee.

KeithVanHagar!, you do realize that I no way/shape/form proclaimed Disney being EVIL. And I do defend Disney on a number of occasions. And I also wanted to point out while the documentary is very bias and in some regards, with weak arguments - I wanted to make the point that it does exist, and somewhat happy it exists.

I have to say though - I love your writing. And I thought I was the only one that inspires to throw in long-winded words and water-down adjectives (I am being serious, awesome writing man!)

Now, that's a critique! :D
 

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