Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway - Disneyland

[Chi84]

Let's not pretend Disney's doing this because they care about people with mobility issues. They're doing this to try and get you to spend an extra $15.

Charity this is not.

Doesn’t matter why they’re doing it. Only matters that it’s an option.

 

[el_super]

I kinda figure it will drop once ToonTown is fully open and has the space / capacity to absorb crowds.

I don't know if they will have stroller parking for a 60+ minute MMRR wait and a 60+ minute RRCS wait.

Thats alot of strollers.

 

[No Name]

"The people who want it most" is a horrible way to decide who gets to ride it.

This isn't Survivor.

And ops doesn't want that mess.

That’s a fine opinion but it doesn’t make your comment before any less factually incorrect.

 

[flynnibus]

The flaw in this argument is that the VQ discriminates against those who would've waited for the ride.

The flaw in this argument is that the 'those who would've waited' can not be serviced effectively INDEPENDENTLY of trying to service the population as a whole.

This argument boils down to "well *I* would have preferred to wait" --where there are huge masses of OTHER guests that prefer NOT spending hours in line. And when the company looks at the WHOLE and not ONE person or a subset, they decided that providing a better experience for MOST people was a better choice than providing the experience that a FEW wanted.

All preferences must co-exist together and one population don't get to operate in isolation. It really looks like spoiled brat whining when people refuse to look beyond their personal preferences and consider they are trying to work out a model that serves more than just them individually.

 

[flynnibus]

Paying $120+ to ride Disneyland's newest attraction and then not getting to ride it isn't exactly low stakes for many Americans.

..and a gamble they took everytime they entered the gates for all time. Yet somehow... people survived, and Disneyland thrived. Or is this is the new soft population that if they don't get what they want, they melt down?

 

[el_super]

Lack of of communication that there are bathrooms in line and reasonable accommodation to allow people to be escorted out and back in if need be.

For Flight of Passage specifically, the bathrooms were added AFTER this turned out to be a problem.

But that leads to an interesting hypothetical. If Disney is expected to staff ushers in a queue to escort people to restrooms, or commit building space to restrooms mid-queue, wouldn't it just make more economical sense to not have a queue that long in the first place? That would also mean more floor space for show elements instead of bathrooms and more CMs actually doing guest services rather than just keeping the peace.

 

[flynnibus]

Some people don't know standby is unavailable. They just hear a new ride is at Disneyland, decide to go see it, and then are unable to ride it. How is that something you can defend? Do you really expect the average American to spend hours planning their Disneyland trip trying to understand the needless confusing worlds of G+, VQ, and LL?

Is this 2004 and people making the argument how on earth are people supposed to just show up and KNOW Fastpass was open to everyone? The old "the dumbest person maybe disenfranchised so the whole system needs to go argument"?

 

[celluloid]

For Flight of Passage specifically, the bathrooms were added AFTER this turned out to be a problem.

But that leads to an interesting hypothetical. If Disney is expected to staff ushers in a queue to escort people to restrooms, or commit building space to restrooms mid-queue, wouldn't it just make more economical sense to not have a queue that long in the first place? That would also mean more floor space for show elements instead of bathrooms and more CMs actually doing guest services rather than just keeping the peace.

Again you ignore the facts.
Someone urinating in line was not a common problem. You act like you keep referencing one story like there were many people that happened all of the time.

There is nothing that interesting about your hypothetical.
Somehow other theme parks do it without stories of people urinating everywhere more than Disney.
It is a silly case for VQ. It is for Disney to make money.
Some people could not wait a twenty min line without having to pee. Causation of a few(and seemingly one because people wait in long lines all the time without this being that large of an issue. It is not correlation.


Your hypothetical on staffing js paritcularly out of touch with how theme parks operate. It takes far more CMs to be at an entrance to check VQs and handle those situations than having a couple CMs help queue efficiency and needs. Your economical factors are way off. Not to mention all the guest service.time wasted on the issues with it.

 

[Consumer]

Is this 2004 and people making the argument how on earth are people supposed to just show up and KNOW Fastpass was open to everyone? The old "the dumbest person maybe disenfranchised so the whole system needs to go argument"?

Fastpass doesn't prevent guests without fastpass from being unable to ride an attraction.

..and a gamble they took everytime they entered the gates for all time.

You mean with breakdowns? Something that Disney can't control? Because Disney can control VQ and are deliberately denying access to paying customers.

 

[el_super]

Again you ignore the facts.

It was common enough that Disney has to spend money building bathrooms in their queue line.

There is nothing that interesting about your hypothetical.
Somehow other theme parks do it without stories of people urinating everywhere more than Disney.

There are no parks in the world as busy as Disney parks.

It is a silly case for VQ. It is for Disney to make money.

No. If that were true all of the lines would have VQ and they would never go away.

Some people could not wait a twenty min line without having to pee. Causation of a few(and seemingly one because people wait in long lines all the time without this being that large of an issue. It is not correlation.

Detached from reality at this point. Disney saw what happened with Flight of Passage and they said "no more." Now we have VQs. What happened, happened. Nothing is going to change that.

 

[celluloid]

It was common enough that Disney has to spend money building bathrooms in their queue line.


There are no parks in the world as busy as Disney parks.

Again. The first part is the one ride where bathrooms were installed. Do you know why this does not happen often elsewhere, for longer lines?

Your second part is not true for all. Universal has parks with higher attendance than a Disney Park just this past year.
Park popularity is also not always a correlation to wait time for attractions. So that point is irrelevant.
Even if you refuse to believe that one. Somehow other theme parks ha e longer lines where people are not urinating,
And MMRR is nowhere near that demand, Tron will not be either.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

There are no parks in the world as busy as Disney parks.

Universal

 

[flynnibus]

Again you ignore the facts.
Someone urinating in line was not a common problem.

But people needing restrooms was… just because people were not peeing on the wall doesn’t disprove that

 

[flynnibus]

Fastpass doesn't prevent guests without fastpass from being unable to ride an attraction.

Different argument. You pointed out a knowledge requirement to fully experience the park. A common requirement for many things… dining, crowd management, etc.

You mean with breakdowns? Something that Disney can't control? Because Disney can control VQ and are deliberately denying access to paying customers.

Again - immaterial. Your grievance was the outcome… not the cause

 

[flynnibus]

Again. The first part is the one ride where bathrooms were installed. Do you know why this does not happen often elsewhere, for longer lines?

What ride at disney since Fop had 3hr waits consistently?

None… why? Because disney changed it so people no longer had to do that.

Funny how that works!

 

[celluloid]

What ride at disney since Fop had 3hr waits consistently?

None… why? Because disney changed it so people no longer had to do that.

Funny how that works!

Why limit to Disney? Ignores the facts.
Psst...it could also be because many have better capacity. Flight of Passage in particular is not often top tier.

Why does Guardians still have it?

Also, no evidence, in fact evidence to the contrary, that three hours waits woud not happen consistently. People here want to think every ride is FoP or Rise.

But what did happen was the waits everywhere else went up...because that is how it works.

Money scheme. And that is ok if you like the benefit from it. But it is why it exists.

All that has been pointed. out most recently from a couple ifmyou is that Disney builds bad capacity attractions to other major parks these days.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

How about the people who are older or lack the physical capacity to wait in 4-hour lines? People here don’t care, but Disney does. The lines will never be all standby. There will always be ways to ride without waiting in them.

Isn’t that what DAS is for? The ADA compliant program the park has had in place for years now. If not then let’s go to all VQs.

I don't know if they will have stroller parking for a 60+ minute MMRR wait and a 60+ minute RRCS wait.

Thats alot of strollers.

Isn’t that part of the reason they cleared all the space in front of Roger by removing the fountain and creating the turf area?

Detached from reality at this point. Disney saw what happened with Flight of Passage and they said "no more." Now we have VQs. What happened, happened. Nothing is going to change that.

Serious question: wasn’t the VQ borne out of the fact that RoTR was so unreliable and low capacity in its initial opening mode that they didn’t want crowds queueing up and then not riding the attraction? Hence the VQ was borne out of necessity to filter guests into back up groups and not overflow the queue in the early months of operations?

As I understood it the VQ was originally a way to “soft open” what was a ride that was technically not ready for prime time and not operationally meeting it’s key capacity metrics by creating an artificial cap. Compare this to the problem with todays VQs is most of these newer attractions (EPCOT’s Rat or GoTG:CR and MMRR at DL) have either opened elsewhere and/or have decent operational capacities that should be ready for prime time.

The only reason to create “scarce capacity” is if you’re purposely reserving a pool of paid ILL reservations. This is also different from free-to-use Fastpass or even flat rate Maxpass which did not not create the same perverse financial incentive to establish scarce capacity and give the appearance of the preponderance of inflated demand.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Serious question: wasn’t the VQ borne out of the fact that RoTR was so unreliable and low capacity in its initial opening mode that they didn’t want crowds queueing up and then not riding the attraction? Hence the VQ was borne out of necessity to filter guests into back up groups and not overflow the queue in the early months of operations?

That was my understanding- Rise wasn’t actually ready in Florida but they were told “open it anyways” - during Christmas break.

They knew the ride would be breaking down regularly so the VQ was the option they chose. It made sense at the time and while not totally fair, it wasn’t used as a cash grab.

 

[flynnibus]

Why limit to Disney? Ignores the facts.

Why limit it to Disney? Because it was the Disney attraction the comment and retort were about - not theme parks in general.

Why does Guardians still have it?

Because EPCOT is still woefully unbalanced and lacking of rides is my guess. It also provides a reliable experience for guests once the mad-rush lottery phase is over. But an attraction like guardians which don't have the reliability woes I hope will shed it sooner rather than later.

Also, no evidence, in fact evidence to the contrary, that three hours waits woud not happen consistently. People here want to think every ride is FoP or Rise.

That is immaterial to what you countered - so really it doesn't matter. The example was given, and you said the problem didn't exist. Yet, did Disney add virtual queues? No, they spent money to build a waystation. So think about that... virtual queues came later and then the need for more restrooms elsewhere went away because Disney has minimized the situation by having alternate queuing.

 

[flynnibus]

Serious question: wasn’t the VQ borne out of the fact that RoTR was so unreliable and low capacity in its initial opening mode that they didn’t want crowds queueing up and then not riding the attraction? Hence the VQ was borne out of necessity to filter guests into back up groups and not overflow the queue in the early months of operations?

It's a huge benefit of the system.. and one reason ops would like it. But I think its still second tier to the point that avoiding the overhead and customer sat issues of managing huge lines is the primary reason.

All the angst about being a conspiracy to sell Lightning Lanes... well guess what.. Disney would still be selling lightning lanes without VQ too, so it's not like this is an either or situation. Does it create more opportunity for LL sales for the people that missed out? Sure, but don't confuse happy side effects with primary objective.