News Mickey’s Copyright Adventure: Early Disney Creation Will Soon Be Public Property

orky8

Well-Known Member
But why should a company like comcast or OLC have any right to profit off of another person or company’s creation? Especially if that person or company is still able, willing, and actively producing content with that creation. Why shouldnt those companies create their own content?

This isn’t like a drug, or useful invention. Nobody needs access to Mickey Mouse.
The real question is why should a company like Disney have the right to preclude others from reimaginning IP created nearly a century ago? You have to look as who is doing the forcing and whether they should be allowed to exert that force. The laws are preventing other creatives from being able to see what they could do with the IP. Why is Disney entitled this monopoly is the question?

My opinion on this has changed, as 10 years ago I would have been horrified by the idea of any company but Disney to be trusted with this iconic material. But seeing as Disney now puts Goofy in the Simpsons and Mickey animation is on par with Ren and Stimpy, I don’t see why Comcast and others shouldn’t also be allowed to provide us with their spin on what Mickey could be. Who/What is “The Walt Disney Company” anyway relative to the man who created the copyrighted material nearly 100 years ago? If The Walt Disney Company is nothing more than a collection of IP to market and sell, as current management treats it, then I suppose I support more reasonable limits of the length of the copyright.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
The real question is why should a company like Disney have the right to preclude others from reimaginning IP created nearly a century ago? You have to look as who is doing the forcing and whether they should be allowed to exert that force. The laws are preventing other creatives from being able to see what they could do with the IP. Why is Disney entitled this monopoly is the question?

My opinion on this has changed, as 10 years ago I would have been horrified by the idea of any company but Disney to be trusted with this iconic material. But seeing as Disney now puts Goofy in the Simpsons and Mickey animation is on par with Ren and Stimpy, I don’t see why Comcast and others shouldn’t also be allowed to provide us with their spin on what Mickey could be. Who/What is “The Walt Disney Company” anyway relative to the man who created the copyrighted material nearly 100 years ago? If The Walt Disney Company is nothing more than a collection of IP to market and sell, as current management treats it, then I suppose I support more reasonable limits of the length of the copyright.
The laws don’t prevent other creatives from being creative. They are free to come up with their own ideas and their own stories and characters.

A company like Disney… or any other copyright holder that still actively uses their intellectual property should have the right to use it exclusively because they created and or own it. They literally and legally have the rights. I don’t personally feel IP should enter the
Public domain unless the copyright holder/creator stops distributing it or creating content with it.

I get that many of use aren’t happy with the current management of the Walt Disney Company… and I understand that many of you are not happy with how the company is currently utilizing some of its IP. I don’t think opening it up to free reign is the answer
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
I don't think other people should be able to profit off someone's creation. Even if they've been dead for a million years. The copyright should carry over to the person's heirs.
Every high school in the world should be paying royalties to SOMEONE when they do a production of Romeo and Juliette, right?

Someone should do a DNA test to figure out who the living relatives of Homer are and figure out how to cut royalty checks for all those copies of the Odyssey out there and the creators of any modern reference to any of the characters, creatures, or individual stories from within it should be paying out royalties, too, right?

And of course, Disney should be paying someone for Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Pinocchio, The Little Mermaid, Chicken Little ( 🤣) Aladdin, Treasure Planet (based on the Disney movie Treasure Island, based on a Book by someone else),Jungle Book, Peter Pan, Lion King, Robin Hood, Alice in Wonderland, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, Hunchback, Hercules, Pocahontas, Tangled, Princess and the Frog, Frozen (which they themselves made clear borrows heavily from the Ice Queen), etc.*, also, right?

Or maybe, if copyright worked the way you'd like it to, a lot of those beloved Disney classics (along with a whole bunch of other stuff) would never have been made and 4/5 of what you associate with Disney today would never have existed. 👍


*I'm sure I forgot some
 
Last edited:

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
The laws don’t prevent other creatives from being creative. They are free to come up with their own ideas and their own stories and characters.

A company like Disney… or any other copyright holder that still actively uses their intellectual property should have the right to use it exclusively because they created and or own it. They literally and legally have the rights. I don’t personally feel IP should enter the
Public domain unless the copyright holder/creator stops distributing it or creating content with it.

Except they literally and legally are about to not and the only thing that has changed is that the multiple times Disney has gotten congress to extend protections pretty much just for them is about to end.

I get that many of use aren’t happy with the current management of the Walt Disney Company… and I understand that many of you are not happy with how the company is currently utilizing some of its IP. I don’t think opening it up to free reign is the answer
It's not like anyone is doing anything to punish Disney, here.

Their copyright expiring isn't about hurting Disney.

Prior to Disney (the company) lobbying like crazy, copyrights expired far sooner than they do, now.

The Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act from 1998, which is often referred to as the Mickey Mouse Extension Act since it was almost exclusively done to delay the inevitable regarding one character owned by one corporate entity, is often cited as an example of corporate abuse of lobbying power.

It's not getting extended again because at this point, nobody in Washington can legitimately pretend they aren't doing it to promote the interests of a single corporation over the interests of the American public.

It's important to understand this isn't just about Mickey. It was done for Mickey but the drag net effect of these extensions has harmed the public interest for decades by preventing all sorts of other creative works from being released into public domain, as well - ones that could have gone on to be used in more culturally relevant new creative works than an old animated short likely ever will and for creative works created after 1978, the effects of this will be even more detrimental.
 
Last edited:

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
... But as long as the creator/owner is still actively producing content/distributing a specific work then I don’t believe someone else should have a right to profit off someone else’s idea.

A company like Disney… or any other copyright holder that still actively uses their intellectual property should have the right to use it exclusively because they created and or own it. They literally and legally have the rights. I don’t personally feel IP should enter the
Public domain unless the copyright holder/creator stops distributing it or creating content with it...

Okay, so here is a question: What if the owner isn't the creator, isn't a company the creator started or worked for and has nothing but a financial relationship to the original property?

Say, Start Wars.

Disney didn't create it and didn't make it what it is in the popular zeitgeist but they did pay a big sack of cash for it and started pumping out their own derivative work that has shown, overall, to be less popular than what their (Disney's) stuff was based on.

Does that give them the exclusive right to be the only people on earth that can ever do anything with it going forward until the end of time because even though they had no connection to the original content at all, they paid a bunch of cash to take George Lucas' rights?

If so, what if they decide to sell in another 20 years because the property isn't worth as much to them anymore or they fall under hard times and need some quick cash?

What if in 20 years they go into bankruptcy, get bought out by a competitor and are sliced up?

Lets say in either scenario, a private equity firm buys up Star Wars and all they do is license the IP out for merchandise and keep pumping out new editions of the existing nine movies and associated Disney+ shows, never creating a unique or new show, movie, or story ever again related to anything Star Wars and effectively preventing anyone else from doing it, either.

... But they are still producing new original merch every year (is that content in your personal definition or does the artwork on a mug, created by an artist with it's own copyright not count?) and are still re-releasing new copies of all the movies and shows for sale in new mediums, which, based on what you've said, is enough by itself to justify them keeping it.

Is that still cool?

How about in 100 years?

What if 500 years from now, the United States of America doesn't even exist anymore but the license for Star Wars is still being bought and sold by people populating Mars and it still costs $20 (adjusted up for 500 years of inflation) for someone to "own" a copy of New Hope with nobody being able to use it as the basis for anything new like everyone does today with stories that old?

What you're proposing suggests that the only stuff that should ever fall into public domain at any point forward is going to be the stuff that was either too obscure or too crappy to matter in society enough for anyone to bother trying to hold onto.

The stuff from the past would have to be accepted as public domain simply because people couldn't predict up until the late 1900's that someone would be making money off their works well after their own names as the original creators had been forgotten by most, in the form of corporate entities that never had anything to do with them at all.

... but imagine where things would be today if that weren't the case prior to the idea of corporate copyright ownership.
 
Last edited:

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
But again… why do people need to be able to use someone else’s story or characters and create their own versions? Why can’t they create their own original stories and characters? If we want creativity to flourish we shouldn’t encourage copying.

I get that Disney has used stories in the public domain before. And I think if a character or story is not being actively used or promoted by its creator or owner then there should be a process of them entering public domain. If for no other reason than protect it from falling into obscurity and irrelevance. But as long as the creator/owner is still actively producing content/distributing a specific work then I don’t believe someone else should have a right to profit off someone else’s idea.
You say "Disney has used stories in the public domain before". [emphasis mine]

You do realize you're talking about the majority of their animated features when you say that, right?

Take a look at this page on Disney Animation Studio's website and see if you can spot the ones they didn't crib from existing stories, characters or ideas.

You say "before" like it's something from the distant past.

Disney's been pretty open about the origins of Frozen, the story of Rapunzel isn't new or original, Moana takes heavily from stuff Disney didn't come up with - so much so they've been accused of appropriation for it.

Lets not even get started on them attempting to trademark day of the dead, something that's existed for more than a century before Walt was born that they actually tried to take out of public domain. No, seriously.

It's safe to say they're still very much benefiting from the public domain, today in the here and now, not just from the money continuing to be generated from their classic works in everything from Disney+ and theme park t-shirt but also new movies and shows they're continuing to put out.

Why can't Disney just come up with something original that's a hit?

To quote you "Why does Disney do people need to be able to use someone else’s story or characters and create their own versions?"

It's a good question since more than 75% of their "creative" animated theatrical output may never have happened if they hadn't had access to public domain stories and characters.

Nearly all of their biggest money-makers are what you'd call unoriginal.

Certainly none of the older stuff largely attributed with building them into the studio that they became, powerful enough to convince sponsors to help them open a theme park in California during Walt's Lifetime was "original".

Do you think Disney would have amounted to anything more than a company that made animated shorts that appeared before the movies people were paying money to go see in theaters if not for Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs?

Why didn't Walt use the Fab Four for his first full length animated feature?

Why does Disney have a history of coming up with so little of their own good content that's new and entirely original?

Heck, even Mickey Mouse started off in his first shorts behaving like a copy of Oswald the Luck Rabbit developed by Walt but owned by Universal which was kind of a copy of Julius the Cat from Disney's Alice comedies which could easily be considered a direct knockoff of Pat Sullivan's Felix the Cat.

Seriously, this was the original Felix the Cat and this was Disney's Julius the Cat once he became a feature character and the similarities weren't just in that they were drawn nearly identically.

In fact, it was someone at Universal who came up with the idea of a rabbit as a character that would eventually become Oswald (not Walt) because they felt that Julius, who started life as a sidekick character to a real little girl before becoming his own thing, was too close to other animated shorts being produced (cough, cough, Felix).

So if we're being totally honest, we could really say it was all started by a Cat rather than a Mouse - someone else's cat.

To be clear, I'm not saying I have any problem with them doing any of this morally or legally.

Disney has done things in terms of coming up with their "original" content more-or-less (sometimes a whole lot more more and sometimes less) the way just about every creative person or company has since dating back to before Roman and even Greek times.

They've certainly put enough of a mark on the characters and stories they've retold to make their versions uniquely Disney and that is the whole idea behind what's supposed to happen with content in the public domain in terms of sparking creativity.

Disney gave us Tinkerbell as a fully fleshed character (and tied to Disney almost as much as Mickey, appearing before every modern Disney movie) with a complete personality and a physical body because they were allowed to use the story of Peter Pan from a play where she was never depicted as anything more than an "unremarkable fairy" represented by a speck of light and incapable of holding more than one emotion at a time due to her size.

With all I've typed - and I'm sorry, I know it's a lot - I'm just saying that in an honest discussion where people are voicing their concerns for Disney, it needs to be acknowledged just how much of the Disney empire was built on other people's stories, characters, and ideas - how much Disney - both the man and the corporate entity - grew and profited off the creative works of other people who did not enjoy even a fraction of the protections that Disney will continue to maintain today, even after the earliest versions of Mickey finally slip into public domain.

I know it probably seems like it but I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm just trying to make sure you fully grasp and understand the implications on the kinds of things you're suggesting because it really is a lot bigger than a nearly 100 year old version of Mickey Mouse that can still only be used in the most limited of ways and could always be used in the ways you (and I) would likely find most offensive under the protections of parody and non-commercial work* despite Disney still trying to unsuccessfully sue.



*Removed this link because I thought better of it due to the subject being NSFW but it was to a piece of art by Keith Haring called "Untitled (Mickey Mouse)" from 1983 which Disney absolutely would not have approved that sold for over $200k which you're free to try looking up, if you like. He did several with Mickey as his subject but you'll know you've found the right one because it features three Mickey Mouses you probably wouldn't want your child or grandmother to see... and I'll leave it at that. Anyway, all this was and is totally allowable under existing copyright law regardless of the copyright status of Mickey - as it should be.
 
Last edited:

Joel

Well-Known Member
It's well past time for Disney to pay it forward when it comes to the public domain. No one involved in the production of Steamboat Willie is still producing Mickey content (or still alive, for that matter). TWDC as it exists today may as well be Comcast for as much as it has in common with Walt's little animation studio. Why anyone would argue for perpetual corporate infringement over what for the vast majority of human history were regarded as the natural rights of society (the right to share, to create derivative works, etc.) is beyond me.

Perpetual copyright only incentivizes rent-seeking, not creativity.
 
Last edited:

Coaster Lover

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
For a company that was built on making animated movies based on the written works of other authors that have fallen out of copywrite protection, they sure are putting up a big fuss about other content creators who may want to create content out of Disney's works that (should be) falling out of copywrite protection.

Snow White, Cinderella, Pinocchio (both the timeless version and the terrible version), Beauty and the Beast, Little Mermaid, Robin Hood, Christmas Carol (ALL of the versions), and many many more... none would be possible without Copywrite Protection eventually expiring.
 

ppete1975

Well-Known Member
So here is my fear, if its in the public domain then can anyone use Mickey for what they want? Look at the winnie the pooh horror movie thats coming out,
Look at what Jim Hensons own son did with Hensonish puppets in the Happytime Murders (with the henson name all over it).

Do we really need mickey out there to be made into any kind of movie?

Just a thought.
 

ohioguy

Well-Known Member
Current copyright law is the life of the author plus 70 years, meaning up to three generations of a family or corporate entity could financially benefit from any given copyrighted work. That's more than enough time to exhaust the earning potential of most creative output. Further use of the material, derived from the source, must mean that the creation lives beyond the normal scope of relevancy and has become so historically and/or culturally significant that the right of the public to access and use the material is greater than the rights of the creator. Think Romeo & Juliet; Huck Finn; Cinderella; and yes, Mickey Mouse.

Copyright is a Constitutionally-protected right and responsibility awarded to Congress, but only for a "limited time". The Supreme Court hinted that Congress was getting close to abusing its authority by constantly extending the copyright provision. It's American tradition that sometimes the greater good outweighs individual interest and monetary reward, and that includes copyright.
 
Last edited:

itsy bitsy spider

Well-Known Member
Every high school in the world should be paying royalties to SOMEONE when they do a production of Romeo and Juliette, right?

Someone should do a DNA test to figure out who the living relatives of Homer are and figure out how to cut royalty checks for all those copies of the Odyssey out there and the creators of any modern reference to any of the characters, creatures, or individual stories from within it should be paying out royalties, too, right?

And of course, Disney should be paying someone for Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Pinocchio, The Little Mermaid, Chicken Little ( 🤣) Aladdin, Treasure Planet (based on the Disney movie Treasure Island, based on a Book by someone else),Jungle Book, Peter Pan, Lion King, Robin Hood, Alice in Wonderland, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, Hunchback, Hercules, Pocahontas, Tangled, Princess and the Frog, Frozen (which they themselves made clear borrows heavily from the Ice Queen), etc.*, also, right?

Or maybe, if copyright worked the way you'd like it to, a lot of those beloved Disney classics (along with a whole bunch of other stuff) would never have been made and 4/5 of what you associate with Disney today would never have existed. 👍


*I'm sure I forgot some

Yep, if they are making a profit off it.

Unless it's a total variation on the book or movie (like Little Mermaid) that is different. They should be paying up. Uncreative people shouldn't be standing on the shoulders of giants. Just because they can't create anything of worth.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
This is how I see it too. Especially with how uncreative current Hollywood is; I don't want to see every animated film have Mickey in it or for there to be a million crappy Superman movies from every studio.

I do think individual works should become public domain though. As that article says, Disney has Steamboat on YouTube for free. Others should be able to distribute & show it without fear of being sued. I feel this way even more so for stuff that isn't a franchise like To Catch A Mockingbird.

What about Disney Plus, though? There, "Steamboat Wilie" is literally one of only two black-and-white Mickey shorts available, the other being "Ye Olden Days".
 

Sharon&Susan

Well-Known Member
What about Disney Plus, though? There, "Steamboat Wilie" is literally one of only two black-and-white Mickey shorts available, the other being "Ye Olden Days".
The reason Disney+ has so few black and white Mickey Mouse shorts is completely unrelated to copyright law. Most of the B&W Mickey shorts are stuck with old Standard Definition masters, while those two shorts have HD remasters on hand.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Historically, it's rare for a property entering the public domain to become *successfully* used by more than one artist/company. Once somebody makes the quintessential version, others have a rough time making another successful version. But they try.

Many non-Disney companies/artists have tried to make a competing version of Snow White, Cinderella, Alice, Peter Pan, etc... and fail. The Andy Serkis live action Jungle Book went nowhere trounced by Disney's own remake. Whole bunch of live action Tarzan movies flopped. Alice gets remade over and over, and it's Disney's version that remains in everyone's mind. Same with Peter Pan.

Disney even fails at this: Their non-sequel sequel to Wizard of Oz flopped, because MGMs is the standard.

Although Netflix's new Pinocchio is getting wide praise while Disney's live action failed. But, in the end, when people think of Pinocchio, it will be Disney's animated version that comes to mind.

Not that it can't happen, there's been tons of successful Sherlock Holmes properties (tho, Disney's animated version didn't do well).

No one's going to remember the Pooh horror movie. And I highly doubt anyone can make a Steamboat Willie non-sequel sequel into a profitable enterprise precisely because the quintessential version already exists, and Disney has been pumping out new Mickey Mouse content to let everyone know that they'll fail if they try.
 
Last edited:

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Yep, if they are making a profit off it.

Unless it's a total variation on the book or movie (like Little Mermaid) that is different. They should be paying up. Uncreative people shouldn't be standing on the shoulders of giants. Just because they can't create anything of worth.

Wait, so people are allowed to use it after all but just under terms that you've defined?

Let me guess, you'll be the arbitrator of what is and isn't considered a total variation, too, right?
 
Last edited:

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom