Math on DVC Resales

[correcaminos]

Fair enough.
But what was the difference in price per point between buying direct vs. resale?

For 95% (just a guess) of the world's population, money is a factor. For me, it's hard to gloss over this fact.
To each his/her own, I'm not trying to preach. Money is a fact of life.

I've done this a few times for resorts. The first time the price per point difference was hovering around $15 per point ($750 total for 50 points). Add in the rewards I got from my credit card ($300 - cannot do resale on credit card) and the $500 on average savings from closing costs - well it was a no brainer to me to go direct.

This last time the difference was more than that though. I specifically needed that resort after doing the math for the room type at a specific time of year, so there wasn't "oh just buy at SSR or OKW" because that fails to help. I gave in and fortunately did not break the budget. I paid more for this set, yet I rationalize it by knowing I got my original OKW contract for a steal. My average buy in per point is about $90 or so per point. So it's fine in the end for me. I had the cash for it and a limit on the cash I could spend (even though I charge it to the credit card to get the points) so I couldn't spend extra just to get more points in resale. I refuse to finance a non-necessity item like this.

I am under the assumption that direct prices are all the same regardless of resort. I can publicly see $182/point offered by Disney for CCV.
However, if I'm mistaken, I don't know how anyone can prove what the price-per-point is for each resort when purchasing directly from Disney.
Also, where are you getting the closing costs from? How is that calculated?

No, not all direct prices are the same. I believe all of these prices are current (quick google)
Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villas $182
Bay Lake Tower at Disney’s Contemporary Resort $191
Boulder Ridge Villas (VWL) $171
Copper Creek Villas & Cabins $182
Disney’s Animal Kingdom Villas $171
Disney’s Beach Club Villas $185
Disney’s BoardWalk Villas $171
Disney’s Hilton Head Island Resort $121
Disney’s Old Key West Resort $151
Disney’s Polynesian Villas & Bungalows $220
Disney’s Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa $151
Disney’s Vero Beach Resort $100
Villas at Disney’s Grand Californian Hotel $235
Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa $220

These are regularly discussed when calling a guide. I can confirm the price of quite a few of those.

Closing costs - resale will list the approximate costs. Disney will too but for financing only. If you do direct and do not finance, it is much lower. I can confirm that a small contract is $124-125 and has been the last few years. I can double check paperwork later to go back to 2015. I'm not sure how they are calculated for financing and resale though.

 

[DisneyFans4Life]

I found a Poly contract good for 48 years, 200 points at $163/point resale. That really isn't a bad deal at all.

 

[nickys]

That's EXACTLY what @nickys is saying:





I am under the assumption that direct prices are all the same regardless of resort. I can publicly see $182/point offered by Disney for CCV.
However, if I'm mistaken, I don't know how anyone can prove what the price-per-point is for each resort when purchasing directly from Disney.
Also, where are you getting the closing costs from? How is that calculated?

OK, I wasn’t including VB or HH. I was referring to WDW, perhaps I could have been more specific. I personally have looked at BCV and BLT. But you know there are other forms right, where lots of people do look and compare and ask questions. And members who have done it are incredibly helpful in answering, like @helenabear who I “know” from another forum.

The SS vs other resorts is one that we’ve already covered in the “buy where you don’t mind staying” discussion.

Disney publish their prices for each resort. You can phone a guide and get a complete list of prices for each resort, whether actively being sold. Ditto for closing costs, where you can get them from DVC and the resale brokers (although actually they will vary according to which title company the resale broker will use, and some offer more than one).

 

[dreamfinder]

You can't buy 50 years resale correct?

As pointed out, you get the same duration of the deed as any other deeds. You don't get to choose the length of validity on the deed, it's based on the property. The older resorts will have shorter duration deeds compared to the newer resorts, but the costs usually vary accordingly with older resorts costing less per point than newer resorts. The resale availability for brand new resorts is usually limited, but the deeds do occasionally pop up.

 

[HansGruber]

OK, I wasn’t including VB or HH. I was referring to WDW, perhaps I could have been more specific. I personally have looked at BCV and BLT.

I see BLT resale @ $160/pt. Direct price @ $191/pt
That's a $1,550 difference for 50 points.
I'll give you a $500 closing cost credit for a $1,050 difference.
I understand this is completely subjective, but $1,050 can be a substantial amount of money. It's roughly a 10-15% surcharge on the overall price.

BVC has a roughly $350 difference.
Again, subjective, but I could see more buyers foregoing this smaller amount of savings and going with Disney direct, out of pure convenience.

Disney publish their prices for each resort. You can phone a guide and get a complete list of prices for each resort, whether actively being sold. Ditto for closing costs, where you can get them from DVC and the resale brokers (although actually they will vary according to which title company the resale broker will use, and some offer more than one).

I'm not trying to split hairs here, but inquiring about prices via phone doesn't mean Disney publishes their prices. IMO, that's the exact opposite of publishing prices. Their direct prices for all resorts are hidden behind a facade where a sales representative first attempts to upsell you the newest resorts and then eventually acquiesces to other resorts. If Disney does publish their direct prices via website, then it's not easily discoverable via search engine. I'd be curious to know how many buyers/ potential buyers know about this.

 

[correcaminos]

I'm not trying to split hairs here, but inquiring about prices via phone doesn't mean Disney publishes their prices. IMO, that's the exact opposite of publishing prices. Their direct prices for all resorts are hidden behind a facade where a sales representative first attempts to upsell you the newest resorts and then eventually acquiesces to other resorts. If Disney does publish their direct prices via website, then it's not easily discoverable via search engine. I'd be curious to know how many buyers/ potential buyers know about this.

I hate to say it, but you are trying to split hairs. The reason why you get the lists is because the amounts are released for people to see. The list I gave, is what is sold. There is no magic or hiding or facade, or anything going on with direct prices. Pretty much end of story.

It is incredibly easy to google the prices to find them. I mean it took me all of two seconds. I know I sound a bit short with my reply, but I am failing to understand why you are trying to make this so complicated and why this is such a big deal for you to try to point out, when you are kind of off with how DVC selling direct seems to work.

OK, I wasn’t including VB or HH. I was referring to WDW, perhaps I could have been more specific. I personally have looked at BCV and BLT. But you know there are other forms right, where lots of people do look and compare and ask questions. And members who have done it are incredibly helpful in answering, like @helenabear who I “know” from another forum.

The SS vs other resorts is one that we’ve already covered in the “buy where you don’t mind staying” discussion.

Disney publish their prices for each resort. You can phone a guide and get a complete list of prices for each resort, whether actively being sold. Ditto for closing costs, where you can get them from DVC and the resale brokers (although actually they will vary according to which title company the resale broker will use, and some offer more than one).

There are a ton of great members out there that share their vast knowledge and do their best to help. I do wish I would see more her to help out those who aren't on the DVC only forums. Some of us have been doing this for a long time and just kind of enjoy it. In my case I'm 41 and am considering doing a little bit of a "snowbird" possibly in the future. I'm sort of hoping my OKW snafu works in my favor. I'd love more OKW later expiration points because it would be where I'd stay and they're cheap. I am not adding now, but considering in the future and need to see what happens with the house that will be bequeathed to my husband in the Tampa area. So I kind of keep watch on even resales.

 

[HansGruber]

I hate to say it, but you are trying to split hairs. The reason why you get the lists is because the amounts are released for people to see. The list I gave, is what is sold. There is no magic or hiding or facade, or anything going on with direct prices. Pretty much end of story.

It is incredibly easy to google the prices to find them. I mean it took me all of two seconds. I know I sound a bit short with my reply, but I am failing to understand why you are trying to make this so complicated and why this is such a big deal for you to try to point out, when you are kind of off with how DVC selling direct seems to work.

Show me a Disney sponsored website which lists the DVC direct price for all resorts.

Disney has no problem displaying the direct price for their newest resorts.
Why aren't they doing the same for the other resorts as well?

 

[Lensman]

I see BLT resale @ $160/pt. Direct price @ $191/pt
That's a $1,550 difference for 50 points.
I'll give you a $500 closing cost credit for a $1,050 difference.
I understand this is completely subjective, but $1,050 can be a substantial amount of money. It's roughly a 10-15% surcharge on the overall price.

I think I see those listings on one of the DVC resale sites. All the ones on the site I'm looking at are stripped and won't have points coming until 2019. This means that in the comparison against direct pricing you have to account for the value of the 2018 points that you'd get from buying direct. For that I like using the pricing of renting those points through a DVC point rental site. That's $17 a point. So on a 50 point contract that's $850, closing the difference to $200. Note that the listing price doesn't equate to the price the seller will accept, so I could see this contract sitting for a bit.

BVC has a roughly $350 difference.
Again, subjective, but I could see more buyers foregoing this smaller amount of savings and going with Disney direct, out of pure convenience.

Oddly enough, the Beach Club contract I see is loaded and has 50 points banked from 2017. That means that this resale contract has an $850 additional value over the direct contract, by my accounting. Add this to the $850 price difference but subtract the $500 additional closing costs and you get a net additional $1200 value in the resale contract. That makes this particular contract a pretty good deal.

There are some good deals out there on small addon contracts. It's just a matter of waiting for a good deal to come around.

I'm not trying to split hairs here, but inquiring about prices via phone doesn't mean Disney publishes their prices. IMO, that's the exact opposite of publishing prices. Their direct prices for all resorts are hidden behind a facade where a sales representative first attempts to upsell you the newest resorts and then eventually acquiesces to other resorts. If Disney does publish their direct prices via website, then it's not easily discoverable via search engine. I'd be curious to know how many buyers/ potential buyers know about this.

Show me a Disney sponsored website which lists the DVC direct price for all resorts.

Disney has no problem displaying the direct price for their newest resorts.
Why aren't they doing the same for the other resorts as well?

What's the importance of Disney publishing the prices of buying each resort direct?

It seems to me like we've strayed from the original topic are focusing too much on some abstract principles instead of actionable advice for the OP.

 

[correcaminos]

Show me a Disney sponsored website which lists the DVC direct price for all resorts.

Disney has no problem displaying the direct price for their newest resorts.
Why aren't they doing the same for the other resorts as well?

If you actually look at the site they tell you approximate prices for the current resorts. Why? If prices change they don't have it technically in writing. For the sold out resorts, you are often put on a waitlist for these. If on a waitlist and pricing changes you pay new pricing. Contrary to whatever you want to believe there is no voodoo going on. .

They also do not list pricing for non financed purchases, but I can guarantee they aren't being shady there either.

So please stop inventing issues with pricing when there are none. Also read the wording below. This is for new purchases. They want nothing set in stone on the site likely due to issues after increases. Also why guides do not put things in writing until the purchase is made.

" The above features are for informational purposes only and are designed to help estimate financing costs and monthly payments if you are considering financing the purchase of a Disney Vacation Club Membership with Disney Vacation Development, Inc., which may offer financing for qualified buyers. While this gives an idea of what has happened in the past, this could be different in the future. Any estimate derived from these features does not necessarily reflect the actual costs associated with purchasing and financing of a Membership and relies on assumptions and information provided by you. Such costs will be determined at the time of purchase. Rates, terms and payments will vary depending on actual credit history, required down payment and loan term. The above does not represent or constitute an actual offer to extend credit. In order to obtain financing, a formal Mortgage application is required and approval is not guaranteed. Financing by Disney Vacation Development, Inc. is subject to change or withdrawal without notice. Prices, terms and other figures change from time to time. Please consult with financial, tax and legal advisers for any advice relating to your purchase and financing decisions. You may revisit this page and update your estimate as often as you'd like."

 

[HansGruber]

Note that the listing price doesn't equate to the price the seller will accept, so I could see this contract sitting for a bit.

I highly dispute this fact. The seller is providing their own price.
Why would any reputable agent allow the seller to waste their time and buyers time?
If I offer your asking price, you accept. Otherwise, we're just wasting our collective time.

What's the importance of Disney publishing the prices of buying each resort direct?

It seems to me like we've strayed from the original topic are focusing too much on some abstract principles instead of actionable advice for the OP.

We've definitely gone off on a tangent...
My response is mainly to those implying it's common knowledge that:

1. Disney sells contracts for older resorts
2. Disney has different pricing for each resort.

I don't see how the common person would know this information because none of it is published on Disney's website.
You have to go digging much deeper either by reading forums or talking with DVC sales representatives.
Transparency is only made possible by 3rd parties and that's only if you know where to look on those 3rd party sites.

 

[HansGruber]

If you actually look at the site they tell you approximate prices for the current resorts. Why? If prices change they don't have it technically in writing. For the sold out resorts, you are often put on a waitlist for these. If on a waitlist and pricing changes you pay new pricing. Contrary to whatever you want to believe there is no voodoo going on. .

They also do not list pricing for non financed purchases, but I can guarantee they aren't being shady there either.

So please stop inventing issues with pricing when there are none. Also read the wording below. This is for new purchases. They want nothing set in stone on the site likely due to issues after increases. Also why guides do not put things in writing until the purchase is made.

" The above features are for informational purposes only and are designed to help estimate financing costs and monthly payments if you are considering financing the purchase of a Disney Vacation Club Membership with Disney Vacation Development, Inc., which may offer financing for qualified buyers. While this gives an idea of what has happened in the past, this could be different in the future. Any estimate derived from these features does not necessarily reflect the actual costs associated with purchasing and financing of a Membership and relies on assumptions and information provided by you. Such costs will be determined at the time of purchase. Rates, terms and payments will vary depending on actual credit history, required down payment and loan term. The above does not represent or constitute an actual offer to extend credit. In order to obtain financing, a formal Mortgage application is required and approval is not guaranteed. Financing by Disney Vacation Development, Inc. is subject to change or withdrawal without notice. Prices, terms and other figures change from time to time. Please consult with financial, tax and legal advisers for any advice relating to your purchase and financing decisions. You may revisit this page and update your estimate as often as you'd like."

I asked for a Disney sponsored website which lists the DVC direct price for all resorts.
You didn't provide one. Therefore, I'm assuming it doesn't exist.

Secondly, the boilerplate disclaimer that you highlighted is in regards to financing!
...and relies on assumptions and information provided by you.
They don't want people with BAD credit, claiming to have GOOD credit and then complaining when the costs go up at the time of contract signing. These are for estimates based upon how the buyer self-reports their own credit history.
Every part of that disclaimer mentions financing.

Thirdly, if I believe your statements, why doesn't Disney publicly publish rates of resort contracts currently available as inventory?
(i.e. those resorts with a waiting list would not be publicly publish)

 

[nickys]

I don’t know about anybody else, but IMO this has run it’s course.

@HansGruber, we first responded to you when you made two statements: first that anyone buying direct from Disney is wasting their money, and second that anyone buying one of the older resorts whose contracts expire in 2042 is wasting their money.

We have explained how it can be worthwhile to some people on both counts. But for some reason you now seem to think we’re lying. About what I’m not sure. That Disney has different prices for different resorts? What?

And now you’re claiming we “implied it’s common knowledge that Disney both sells older resorts and has different prices for those resorts”. No, we explained that both those things are true, not that it is common knowledge they are true. A sales rep from DVC will push the newer active resorts. New buyers may not know. Until, that is, they join a forum dedicated to either DVC or timeshares, or one with an active DVC sub-forum (which this isn’t sadly). But you are now implying we’re making this up.

Either way, it’s clear you think it is never worthwhile to buy at an older resort, nor direct. That’s fine. We have explained why some people do. And actually I came up with my own situation, which you haven’t countered (that of a foreign buyer).


Regardless, we’ve tried to be helpful. And you are still arguing the toss, and seemingly disbelieving us. I’m out, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see @helenabear and @Lensman bow out too. I’m still perplexed as to why someone who seemed to want information would dismiss it so vehemently when it’s given. Disagreeing with decisions people make is one thing, to respond in the way you have is unusual and has left me feeling despondent. Thee is no point in continuing this discussion.

 

[correcaminos]

I asked for a Disney sponsored website which lists the DVC direct price for all resorts.
You didn't provide one. Therefore, I'm assuming it doesn't exist.

Secondly, the boilerplate disclaimer that you highlighted is in regards to financing!
...and relies on assumptions and information provided by you.
They don't want people with BAD credit, claiming to have GOOD credit and then complaining when the costs go up at the time of contract signing. These are for estimates based upon how the buyer self-reports their own credit history.
Every part of that disclaimer mentions financing.

Thirdly, if I believe your statements, why doesn't Disney publicly publish rates of resort contracts currently available as inventory?
(i.e. those resorts with a waiting list would not be publicly publish)

They give lists for no resorts. By title of the FAQ that it came from, those estimates are on the page for what it costs, not just for financing. So it's more than that. Having costs in writing is very dangerous to do for a business. To clarify this for anyone reading, this was not about financing at all. It was from this page https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/membership/costs/ That is supposed to be information for all buyers not just financing. There is more on that page I didn't quote, but look for yourself if you are curious. Price per point isn't listed any longer. Though it is confusing to me that they list starting closing costs only for financing but I guess they assume all are financing? Who knows. I know my current guide has on file that we pay credit (to pay off after but to get the rewards) but the last guide I had assumed we were financing and that annoyed the snot out of me.

An extra add: "You may purchase up to 4,000 Vacation Points at a single Disney Vacation Club Resort. The purchase price is currently $182 per Vacation Point at the following Resorts: Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villas, Ko Olina, Hawai'i. " that is under a description (likely in the coding) for a google search of price per point. However when you click on the link all of that verbiage is gone. So no where on the site currently is there a list. Not even current resorts.
To reiterate something, they do release the prices, you just won't see it in writing on Disney's site. They've gotten good at vague-posting and I think it's wise because there have been times they have had in writing something only to be bit in the rear later.

Inventory for sold out is redundant. It's sold out so no lists to have.

I feel like you're being obtuse or have an agenda as yet again you're making up facts to support whatever your watt to believe, so like @nickys I am out. Good luck

 

[HansGruber]

They give lists for no resorts. By title of the FAQ that it came from, those estimates are on the page for what it costs, not just for financing. So it's more than that. Having costs in writing is very dangerous to do for a business.

Inventory for sold out is redundant. It's sold out so no lists to have.

I feel like you're being obtuse or have an agenda as yet again you're making up facts to support whatever your watt to believe, so like @nickys I am out. Good luck

YOU keep going off on irrelevant tangents! And then you try to pass of a finance disclaimer as an excuse for why Disney doesn't publicly post prices for older DVC resorts. The price per point has NOTHING to do with financing. This is actually a formal Mortgage application. The negotiated sales price of a real estate property is completely independent of the mortgage application process!

That was a nice try though. Insulting, but nice.

 

[HansGruber]

I don’t know about anybody else, but IMO this has run it’s course.

@HansGruber, we first responded to you when you made two statements: first that anyone buying direct from Disney is wasting their money, and second that anyone buying one of the older resorts whose contracts expire in 2042 is wasting their money.

Correct. I've succinctly shown, using basic math and real-time numbers, the accuracy of both statements.
Your counter to my posts are often long-winded, containing general statements and little to no real-time examples.
Just show me the numbers and I'll acquiesce. It's not that hard.
You haven't done that, so I grow skeptical. My apologies.

 

[Lensman]

Correct. I've succinctly shown, using basic math and real-time numbers, the accuracy of both statements.
Your counter to my posts are often long-winded, containing general statements and little to no real-time examples.
Just show me the numbers and I'll acquiesce. It's not that hard.
You haven't done that, so I grow skeptical. My apologies.

I think both statements are extreme and judgmental and I don't find your arguments compelling.
1. Buying direct is generally a poor financial decision, except in certain cases with add-ons or in order to get perks. But most people don't think the perks are worth buying a small direct contract - even back when you could get one at 25 points. Note that I still object to the term, "wasting your money" because it implies a judgmentalism that I dislike.
2. People buying into OKW, SSR, BCV, and other older properties are not "wasting their money". There are a lot of assumptions into a financial valuation for the intrinsic value of owning at any particular DVC property. I know you disagree with some of my assumptions, but that doesn't mean that either my assumptions or your assumptions are conclusively right or wrong. I happen to have spent many hours researching analytical options for this valuation on the various boards where DVC members hang out and dispense advice to prospective purchasers.

That said, my current assumption is that I'm wasting my time responding to you since you seem to not want to address my earlier comments. That's fine. I don't think I'll convince you of anything and am happy to agree to disagree. I'm just posting this here for the benefit of the OP and to anyone who comes to this thread looking for a financial analysis of DVC purchases. I'm out too, @helenabear and @nickys.

 

[HansGruber]

2. People buying into OKW, SSR, BCV, and other older properties are not "wasting their money".

To be fair, I said 2042 properties (get rid of SSR).

The issue I have with many of your statements...you seem to act as if DVC is an investment property; it's not. These are pre-paid vacations.
Even Disney states as such:
The purchase of an ownership interest should only be used for personal use and enjoyment, should be based upon its value as a vacation experience and should not be for the purpose of acquiring an income or appreciating investment.

Obviously, it's extremely difficult to quantify value as it relates to a vacation experience. But I'm attempting to do so by looking at all the DVC resorts as a whole. I think this is getting lost in the translation here.
If one NEEDS to stay at BCV, that's their prerogative. But if you look at all the DVC resorts as a whole (I would agree to just focus on the WDW properties), you are not getting the same ROI (I'm using this term loosely) financially, staying at BVC as you would other resorts, if purchasing a contract today, with the intent of living out the entire contract.

You seem to imply (correct me if I'm mistaken), based on your analysis, that certain resorts will appreciate in value fast than others. While you have no obligation to me, perhaps it would help things a lot if you were to share this analysis. Otherwise, it kind of goes against the spirit of the debate. These really aren't investment properties and I'm not taking any of that into account with any of my calculations or statements.

That said, my current assumption is that I'm wasting my time responding to you since you seem to not want to address my earlier comments.

You'll have to be more specific. Which question/ post are you referring?
I'm not attempting to ignore something, I just don't know which question you're talking about.

 

[Lensman]

To be fair, I said 2042 properties (get rid of SSR).

The issue I have with many of your statements...you seem to act as if DVC is an investment property; it's not. These are pre-paid vacations.
Even Disney states as such:
The purchase of an ownership interest should only be used for personal use and enjoyment, should be based upon its value as a vacation experience and should not be for the purpose of acquiring an income or appreciating investment.

Obviously, it's extremely difficult to quantify value as it relates to a vacation experience. But I'm attempting to do so by looking at all the DVC resorts as a whole. I think this is getting lost in the translation here.
If one NEEDS to stay at BCV, that's their prerogative. But if you look at all the DVC resorts as a whole (I would agree to just focus on the WDW properties), you are not getting the same ROI (I'm using this term loosely) financially, staying at BVC as you would other resorts, if purchasing a contract today, with the intent of living out the entire contract.

You seem to imply (correct me if I'm mistaken), based on your analysis, that certain resorts will appreciate in value fast than others. While you have no obligation to me, perhaps it would help things a lot if you were to share this analysis. Otherwise, it kind of goes against the spirit of the debate. These really aren't investment properties and I'm not taking any of that into account with any of my calculations or statements.



You'll have to be more specific. Which question/ post are you referring?
I'm not attempting to ignore something, I just don't know which question you're talking about.

What you bring up has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I am not saying anything about the appreciation of the DVC properties. I am not viewing DVC as investment property. You continue to misinterpret what I say and construct elaborate objections to these misinterpretations. I think it's best that we end this conflict and agree that we hold different irreconcilable perspectives.

 

[correcaminos]

What you bring up has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I am not saying anything about the appreciation of the DVC properties. I am not viewing DVC as investment property. You continue to misinterpret what I say and construct elaborate objections to these misinterpretations. I think it's best that we end this conflict and agree that we hold different irreconcilable perspectives.

IMO one should never look at DVC as an investment property anyway. That is quite a dangerous thing to do. While there is going to be a time that it will increase in value, it has a limited shelf life so to speak, and it will devalue as time goes on. I think if investing, one is wise to go anywhere else other than a timeshare - because that is not a smart move.

Just tossing that out there in case others are reading (just like I 100% clarified where I got certain text from so someone doesn't misunderstand). I'm kind of big on reading and seeing all appropriate information if considering buying.

 

[HansGruber]

What you bring up has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I am not saying anything about the appreciation of the DVC properties. I am not viewing DVC as investment property. You continue to misinterpret what I say and construct elaborate objections to these misinterpretations. I think it's best that we end this conflict and agree that we hold different irreconcilable perspectives.

My apologies...then I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. I'm not intentionally attempting to skew your words, but you post stuff like this....

There are a lot of assumptions into a financial valuation for the intrinsic value of owning at any particular DVC property.

I don't know what that means!! "Financial valuation" and "intrinsic value" are terms used for investing!

SSR resale is $40/pt cheaper than BCV resale.
SSR gives you 12 more years than BCV.
SSR is both cheaper AND offers more value compared to BCV.

I would ask that you refute this using simple numbers...not an 8 sentence post mentioning advanced economic theory that has no conclusive or comprehensive point.
You haven't done that. You can't do that.
So yes, I agree to end the discussion.