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Master of the Parks: Challenge 1 - Beauty & the Beast Dark-Ride
- Thread starter BryceM
- Start date
Awesome! I just hope I wasn't too harsh...
jdmdisney99
Well-Known Member
Thanks! It will be interesting to see how the rest of the contest plays out.
Tip Top Club
Well-Known Member
@Matt7187
The Legend of Beauty and the Beast
My overall impression is that this was done very quickly, and it shows. I try to look at things very realistically (well, realistically enough for an internet contest, hah) and I just couldn’t picture this getting off the page. It’s not bad, but it’s very basic, and we’ve moved beyond that today with Disney.
My First concern is with the location, it’s pretty much impossible to build anything between Be Our Guest and it’s a small world, but this is a small concern, perhaps you’ve found a way around that, and simply didn’t elaborate. This was however, something I said I would be looking for, so keep that in mind for next time.
I don’t share the other judges concern with the Omnimover system, in fact I think it’s great, they are very high capacity and that’s something that the Magic Kingdom sorely needs.
I wish you had gone into more detail with the queue. The Queue experience has become ever so important, and I can’t stress this enough, especially with the advent of Next-Gen and RFID. A “Dark Tunnel” doesn’t cut it. We need to be immersed in the story somehow. I’m not saying you should have designed an interactive queue or anything, just gone into more detail. And to be realistic, you know that it would have an interactive queue if it was built today.
The Ride experience seems only okay. It’s not detailed at all, and is very repetitive to read. It also seems to include many small scenes that could easily be cut to keep the pace up and moving. I’m also concerned that the “Gaston” number is not included. Villains are important, and while I’m happy you seem to include the underrated “Mob Song” I’m not sure why you set it inside the Tavern rather than say outside Maurice’s Cottage, or perhaps outside the Castle when they are trying to break down the door. I also think the idea of them saying goodbye to you personally is a bit cheesy, and repetitive of the ET Adventure attraction at Universal Studios Florida.
It’s a small concern, but you also don’t elaborate on the Location of Belle’s Enchanted Gifts. Things are pretty packed in back there, I’m not sure if there’s room for a new venue.
@WED99
This one gets major points from me. Of all the proposals it’s the best thought out, and having the media (pictures and videos) really helps.
I’m a big fan of the location, and I appreciate your noting that back of house changes would need to be made as well.
I love the façade, I think it’s the perfect way to start the experience, it’s an iconic and striking image, and it works well.
The queue also works very well, I like the idea of a pre-show with the Beast similar (from a crowd flow perspective) to the Haunted Mansion stretch rooms. I’m not sure why we enter the castle and then around the corner find ourselves in the forest with Maurice, and I wouldn’t have even mentioned it because it’s such a small gripe, except that it seems like a better starting off point for the ride would have been Belle’s Journey into the castle, since the ride is supposed to focus on Belle and Beast’s interactions.
Which actually leads me to my main concern. You went out of your way in your proposal to defend your choice of having a HUGE number of show scenes, honestly, I don’t think it would work, the ride would be too long and too slow for the audience to absorb it all. Editing was definitely needed here. Pacing is very important in theme park attractions and I could feel you on the defensive when reading it. Next time, If something feels like it’s too much, it probably is. I’m not saying don’t shoot for the stars, just keep in mind that for me personally as a judge, one of the things I’m looking for is the level of realism. And you achieved that everywhere else but here.
My last concern is more of a question. Obviously HUGE points for creativity in creating a new ride system. However, if you are looking at it from an economic standpoint, I have to wonder if it’s really needed. You touched on the benefit of having to build show scenes only in the direction the vehicles face, which is great. But it seems to me from a creative standpoint the benefit would be being able to be lifted off the ground with a track that’s behind you. When you were first explaining the vehicle, I was imagining the vehicles simulating going up and down staircases, or perhaps swooping around the walls of the ballroom, like the famous sweeping shots in the film. It seems to me like you designed a new ride system and then didn’t really use it to its full potential. Based on the scene descriptions given, nothing you described sounds like it couldn’t be achieved by a constantly sideways facing omnimover like at The Seas with Nemo and Friends. This is obviously a small concern, and certainly no points lost (in fact points gained for creativity) but I feel that it needs to be brought up.
Overall an excellent job, lots of good things here. The only thing you needs to keep in mind for his next project is the pacing of the actual ride; This to me felt more like Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey when you are constantly jumping from place to place than a Disney Dark Ride telling a story. But still great work.
@Turtle
Beauty and the Beast: Tale as Old as Time
THIS IS A BIG PROJECT! with very little detail.
It’s an interesting idea to be sure, but It’s certainly not at show quality yet. I have so many questions that I wished you would have answered. First and foremost, why replace Enchanted Tales with Belle? It really is a fine attraction. The mirror scene is brilliant, and if you have a good audience, the participation can be very funny. I guess there is limited space, so I understand it to an extent, but I know if I were given this to greenlight or redlight, it would be a redlight. It is certainly creative though. Points for going away from a basic track system, you’re the only person who strayed away from the basic dark ride concept, and while that is to be celebrated, you didn’t quite pull it off.
I appreciate the return to being an animatronics based attraction, but you don’t go into any detail with what animatronics would be featured, you don’t even go into details of their “Bonding” which seems to be the point of the story. Grab some screencaps off Google or something next time. Their sharing the soup, for example, having a snowball fight, or reading in the Library.
It seems to me that your heart wasn’t really in this. Obviously this is an internet contest, but I would have liked to see more. If you stay in the contest, really work on selling your product next time.
@ctxak98 (Love the Name, BTW)
Beauty and the Beast: Belle’s Enchanted Journey
I actually really like this one. I love the entrance and queue, I was kind of disappointed that Imagineering didn’t include the bookshop in their plans for the village so I would love to see that.
I love the idea of the ride vehicles being shaped like Maurice’s inventions, and the whole ride actually seems quite good. I love the idea of starting out in the village, I can picture it perfectly, seeing all the villagers, and the “Belle” number going on. It does seem to gloss over them falling in love however. You go the castle, hear the story of how he became the Beast, and then boom they are in love. You have the opposite problem of pretty much everyone else. If you read my critiques, you’ll see I’m a big fan of pacing, and moving the story along, and you’ve done that a bit too well. The majority of the story takes place here, and classic scenes like “Be Our Guest” and “Something There” are discarded, for no apparent reason. You end strong though, I can definitely picture the battle sequence.
I also have to say that I don’t agree with Bryce on the finale. To me when you exit in the Library, it’s as if you’re coming out the story being told by Lumiere and Cogsworth, not going back in time. That made sense to me.
Also, don’t second guess yourself, it makes perfect sense to have those setting duplicated in the ride. Great work here.
@techee
Beauty and the Beast: Belle’s Enchanted Journey
The first thing I have to say is that I’m not actually sure where your ride enters, are you saying it uses the same building as Be our Guest? The Queue needs some work as well. Queue experience is important, I guess I can sort of picture winding through Beast’s collection of Gargoyles, but there are so many wonderful locations in this film I would love to see that we haven’t seen yet. Definitely potential there. I do like the stained glass at the load dock though, great way to set the tone.
I’m not really sure what your ride vehicle either, when you say carriage, I picture something like Peter Pan’s Flight, Or The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, a general self-contained Dark Ride vehicle.
My Main concern here is once again length. Everyone universally needs to work on the pacing of their ride for the next challenge. There are WAY too many scenes. Just because they are in the movie doesn’t mean they would work for the ride. You include a lot of scenes that are just people sitting around talking, that doesn’t make for a very fun ride. Also…you have BELLE PUSH GASTON OFF THE TOWER! WHAT?! You’re turning one of the princesses into a Murderer? That just plain doesn’t fly.
@jdmdisney99
Tale as Old as Time: Belle’s Journey
Another well done proposel, mostly good but a few fatal flaws.
I love the entrance location, but placing the showbuilding there doesn’t really make sense. There is a road there that really can’t be moved, there is space behind it, but I’m not sure if it’s even usable, it’s very marsh-y. If you were to place building back there, you would need to either tunnel under that road, or bridge over it, and I can’t see them spending that money unless there were multiple show buildings back there, or a huge E-Ticket.
I like the façade, the opening of the film is a striking visual, so it’s the perfect way to set the tone. And I enjoy the stained glass on the load dock as well. Perfect.
I like the ride, although I have to give you the same criticism as everyone else. It’s too long. The Trackless systems are designed to give you a huge amount of kinetic energy and I can’t help but feel like it’s too much for this attraction. I think the other roses would be distracting in the West Wing, and the Ballroom. It would work in the town and during the finale battle, but I just can’t picture it in those locations.
I’m also not sure where the Enchantress’ Cove is located, and why you would want to shop there? There are so many rich locations from the film you could have used, why use a side character we don’t even actually ever meet as the basis for the exit that every guest has to walk through?
Overall, pretty good job, excellent job including concept art and trying to think outside the box, or outside the rose if you will.
@LittleGiants16
Beauty and the Beast: Belle’s Adventure
Considering you threw this together last minute, well done. I can’t see any of your pictures, so work on your hosting if you continue in the game, but altogether not bad.
I don’t like the idea of replacing Enchanted Tales with Belle, but I admit that space is limited here, so at least we get to keep the cottage.
My first concern is with Maurice. I love the idea of him narrating, he’s a great character, but I have to wonder if it’s really necessary. His dialogue was repetitive an unnecessarily expositional. One of the things that sets Disney attractions apart is the writing. No one quotes Universal attractions. “Hey you lot, you haven’t seen a dragon have yeh?” compared to “Your cadaverous pallor betrays an aura of foreboding, almost as though you sense a disquieting metamorphosis.” If you are going to write dialogue, write it carefully.
My other concerns are very similar to everyone else’s. The LPS system is very high energy, and I just couldn’t see it working for slow scenes like the dungeon. It seems like the exit shop is also quite redundant of the Bonjour Village Gifts shop.
Overall though, for throwing it in there last minute, fine job.
The Legend of Beauty and the Beast
My overall impression is that this was done very quickly, and it shows. I try to look at things very realistically (well, realistically enough for an internet contest, hah) and I just couldn’t picture this getting off the page. It’s not bad, but it’s very basic, and we’ve moved beyond that today with Disney.
My First concern is with the location, it’s pretty much impossible to build anything between Be Our Guest and it’s a small world, but this is a small concern, perhaps you’ve found a way around that, and simply didn’t elaborate. This was however, something I said I would be looking for, so keep that in mind for next time.
I don’t share the other judges concern with the Omnimover system, in fact I think it’s great, they are very high capacity and that’s something that the Magic Kingdom sorely needs.
I wish you had gone into more detail with the queue. The Queue experience has become ever so important, and I can’t stress this enough, especially with the advent of Next-Gen and RFID. A “Dark Tunnel” doesn’t cut it. We need to be immersed in the story somehow. I’m not saying you should have designed an interactive queue or anything, just gone into more detail. And to be realistic, you know that it would have an interactive queue if it was built today.
The Ride experience seems only okay. It’s not detailed at all, and is very repetitive to read. It also seems to include many small scenes that could easily be cut to keep the pace up and moving. I’m also concerned that the “Gaston” number is not included. Villains are important, and while I’m happy you seem to include the underrated “Mob Song” I’m not sure why you set it inside the Tavern rather than say outside Maurice’s Cottage, or perhaps outside the Castle when they are trying to break down the door. I also think the idea of them saying goodbye to you personally is a bit cheesy, and repetitive of the ET Adventure attraction at Universal Studios Florida.
It’s a small concern, but you also don’t elaborate on the Location of Belle’s Enchanted Gifts. Things are pretty packed in back there, I’m not sure if there’s room for a new venue.
@WED99
This one gets major points from me. Of all the proposals it’s the best thought out, and having the media (pictures and videos) really helps.
I’m a big fan of the location, and I appreciate your noting that back of house changes would need to be made as well.
I love the façade, I think it’s the perfect way to start the experience, it’s an iconic and striking image, and it works well.
The queue also works very well, I like the idea of a pre-show with the Beast similar (from a crowd flow perspective) to the Haunted Mansion stretch rooms. I’m not sure why we enter the castle and then around the corner find ourselves in the forest with Maurice, and I wouldn’t have even mentioned it because it’s such a small gripe, except that it seems like a better starting off point for the ride would have been Belle’s Journey into the castle, since the ride is supposed to focus on Belle and Beast’s interactions.
Which actually leads me to my main concern. You went out of your way in your proposal to defend your choice of having a HUGE number of show scenes, honestly, I don’t think it would work, the ride would be too long and too slow for the audience to absorb it all. Editing was definitely needed here. Pacing is very important in theme park attractions and I could feel you on the defensive when reading it. Next time, If something feels like it’s too much, it probably is. I’m not saying don’t shoot for the stars, just keep in mind that for me personally as a judge, one of the things I’m looking for is the level of realism. And you achieved that everywhere else but here.
My last concern is more of a question. Obviously HUGE points for creativity in creating a new ride system. However, if you are looking at it from an economic standpoint, I have to wonder if it’s really needed. You touched on the benefit of having to build show scenes only in the direction the vehicles face, which is great. But it seems to me from a creative standpoint the benefit would be being able to be lifted off the ground with a track that’s behind you. When you were first explaining the vehicle, I was imagining the vehicles simulating going up and down staircases, or perhaps swooping around the walls of the ballroom, like the famous sweeping shots in the film. It seems to me like you designed a new ride system and then didn’t really use it to its full potential. Based on the scene descriptions given, nothing you described sounds like it couldn’t be achieved by a constantly sideways facing omnimover like at The Seas with Nemo and Friends. This is obviously a small concern, and certainly no points lost (in fact points gained for creativity) but I feel that it needs to be brought up.
Overall an excellent job, lots of good things here. The only thing you needs to keep in mind for his next project is the pacing of the actual ride; This to me felt more like Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey when you are constantly jumping from place to place than a Disney Dark Ride telling a story. But still great work.
@Turtle
Beauty and the Beast: Tale as Old as Time
THIS IS A BIG PROJECT! with very little detail.
It’s an interesting idea to be sure, but It’s certainly not at show quality yet. I have so many questions that I wished you would have answered. First and foremost, why replace Enchanted Tales with Belle? It really is a fine attraction. The mirror scene is brilliant, and if you have a good audience, the participation can be very funny. I guess there is limited space, so I understand it to an extent, but I know if I were given this to greenlight or redlight, it would be a redlight. It is certainly creative though. Points for going away from a basic track system, you’re the only person who strayed away from the basic dark ride concept, and while that is to be celebrated, you didn’t quite pull it off.
I appreciate the return to being an animatronics based attraction, but you don’t go into any detail with what animatronics would be featured, you don’t even go into details of their “Bonding” which seems to be the point of the story. Grab some screencaps off Google or something next time. Their sharing the soup, for example, having a snowball fight, or reading in the Library.
It seems to me that your heart wasn’t really in this. Obviously this is an internet contest, but I would have liked to see more. If you stay in the contest, really work on selling your product next time.
@ctxak98 (Love the Name, BTW)
Beauty and the Beast: Belle’s Enchanted Journey
I actually really like this one. I love the entrance and queue, I was kind of disappointed that Imagineering didn’t include the bookshop in their plans for the village so I would love to see that.
I love the idea of the ride vehicles being shaped like Maurice’s inventions, and the whole ride actually seems quite good. I love the idea of starting out in the village, I can picture it perfectly, seeing all the villagers, and the “Belle” number going on. It does seem to gloss over them falling in love however. You go the castle, hear the story of how he became the Beast, and then boom they are in love. You have the opposite problem of pretty much everyone else. If you read my critiques, you’ll see I’m a big fan of pacing, and moving the story along, and you’ve done that a bit too well. The majority of the story takes place here, and classic scenes like “Be Our Guest” and “Something There” are discarded, for no apparent reason. You end strong though, I can definitely picture the battle sequence.
I also have to say that I don’t agree with Bryce on the finale. To me when you exit in the Library, it’s as if you’re coming out the story being told by Lumiere and Cogsworth, not going back in time. That made sense to me.
Also, don’t second guess yourself, it makes perfect sense to have those setting duplicated in the ride. Great work here.
@techee
Beauty and the Beast: Belle’s Enchanted Journey
The first thing I have to say is that I’m not actually sure where your ride enters, are you saying it uses the same building as Be our Guest? The Queue needs some work as well. Queue experience is important, I guess I can sort of picture winding through Beast’s collection of Gargoyles, but there are so many wonderful locations in this film I would love to see that we haven’t seen yet. Definitely potential there. I do like the stained glass at the load dock though, great way to set the tone.
I’m not really sure what your ride vehicle either, when you say carriage, I picture something like Peter Pan’s Flight, Or The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, a general self-contained Dark Ride vehicle.
My Main concern here is once again length. Everyone universally needs to work on the pacing of their ride for the next challenge. There are WAY too many scenes. Just because they are in the movie doesn’t mean they would work for the ride. You include a lot of scenes that are just people sitting around talking, that doesn’t make for a very fun ride. Also…you have BELLE PUSH GASTON OFF THE TOWER! WHAT?! You’re turning one of the princesses into a Murderer? That just plain doesn’t fly.
@jdmdisney99
Tale as Old as Time: Belle’s Journey
Another well done proposel, mostly good but a few fatal flaws.
I love the entrance location, but placing the showbuilding there doesn’t really make sense. There is a road there that really can’t be moved, there is space behind it, but I’m not sure if it’s even usable, it’s very marsh-y. If you were to place building back there, you would need to either tunnel under that road, or bridge over it, and I can’t see them spending that money unless there were multiple show buildings back there, or a huge E-Ticket.
I like the façade, the opening of the film is a striking visual, so it’s the perfect way to set the tone. And I enjoy the stained glass on the load dock as well. Perfect.
I like the ride, although I have to give you the same criticism as everyone else. It’s too long. The Trackless systems are designed to give you a huge amount of kinetic energy and I can’t help but feel like it’s too much for this attraction. I think the other roses would be distracting in the West Wing, and the Ballroom. It would work in the town and during the finale battle, but I just can’t picture it in those locations.
I’m also not sure where the Enchantress’ Cove is located, and why you would want to shop there? There are so many rich locations from the film you could have used, why use a side character we don’t even actually ever meet as the basis for the exit that every guest has to walk through?
Overall, pretty good job, excellent job including concept art and trying to think outside the box, or outside the rose if you will.
@LittleGiants16
Beauty and the Beast: Belle’s Adventure
Considering you threw this together last minute, well done. I can’t see any of your pictures, so work on your hosting if you continue in the game, but altogether not bad.
I don’t like the idea of replacing Enchanted Tales with Belle, but I admit that space is limited here, so at least we get to keep the cottage.
My first concern is with Maurice. I love the idea of him narrating, he’s a great character, but I have to wonder if it’s really necessary. His dialogue was repetitive an unnecessarily expositional. One of the things that sets Disney attractions apart is the writing. No one quotes Universal attractions. “Hey you lot, you haven’t seen a dragon have yeh?” compared to “Your cadaverous pallor betrays an aura of foreboding, almost as though you sense a disquieting metamorphosis.” If you are going to write dialogue, write it carefully.
My other concerns are very similar to everyone else’s. The LPS system is very high energy, and I just couldn’t see it working for slow scenes like the dungeon. It seems like the exit shop is also quite redundant of the Bonjour Village Gifts shop.
Overall though, for throwing it in there last minute, fine job.
Tip Top Club
Well-Known Member
Well done to everyone and a big THANK YOU for participating. If you have any rebuttals to our critiques, feel free to post them here, or shoot one of use a message. I would also encourage you to read everyone else's critiques as well if you really want to see what we're looking for. I know I called pretty much all of you out on two major things, (Pacing of the attraction, for example) so don't feel bad! This is, after all, supposed to be fun. THANKS again!
WED99
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I'm happy with this. But you know only like 4 scenes in the ride were CGI right? Unless specified, it was AA's.
WED99
Well-Known Member
Thanks! I'm pretty happy with that as well
I will try to expand on the Float Fit in a future challenge. I have to admit I struggled with lowering the amount of scenes. BatB has so many scenes in it! Definitely do some edits next time!
jdmdisney99
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the advice! I figured they coul try to move the service road behind the building. Plus with the marshes, they could do what they did with the rest of the Magic Kingdom and raise it up. It would cost a lot of money and ican definitely see where you're coming from. I'll try to count for those things in Challenge 2.
ctxak98
Well-Known Member
Thank You so much! I am glad you got where I was going by ending in the Library. I will take my time next challenge and REALLY go into detail. Do you know when we will get the next challenge? because I would love to start on it now lol. To be completely honest I took out the Be our Guest scene due to Philharmagic!? I know it sounds dumb but I thought some people wouldnt like seeing that portion of the movie in another area in the same land basically. But thanks so much for the critiques! Very helpful.
Tip Top Club
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm all for editing, but I think you edited a bit too well.The Be Our Guest scene is necessary, the experience of Dining there, seeing it in 3-D in Philharmagic, and riding through a dimensional scene are all completely different. It certainly didn't stop imagineering from including Part of your world in the Little Mermaid ride.
Rankings for Challenge 1:
1. @WED99
2. @jdmdisney99
3. @ctxak98
4. @Matt7187
5. @LittleGiants16
6. @Turtle
7. @techee
The next challenge will be sent out shortly!
1. @WED99
2. @jdmdisney99
3. @ctxak98
4. @Matt7187
5. @LittleGiants16
6. @Turtle
7. @techee
The next challenge will be sent out shortly!
jdmdisney99
Well-Known Member
jdmdisney99
Well-Known Member
I wonder if anyone tried to translate the name on the wine bottles yet? It's French!
Matt7187
Well-Known Member
Can you just tell me?
jdmdisney99
Well-Known Member
Okay! It's Cars Land.