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Major Harry Potter *spoiler* thread

Dizknee_Phreek

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
garyhoov said:
If she simply wanted to kill him, dead, never to be heard from again, I'd think she'd have some curse or falling anvil or something that would leave his body there and we'd know clearly what happened, and there wouldn't be any hint that he had just fallen into some other world.

Instead, she introduce us to a curtain with dead people beyond it. We hear their voices from beyond this curtain showing us that there is at least some link between the living and the dead. We know that Sirius is dead, but we don't know what death in J.K. Rowlings world means.

To really find out, we'll have to wait for the next books, but here's my guess in the mean time: I'm guessing the curtain is a one way street. You can go through it from the living side (as Sirious did), but there's no way to get back once you've crossed (and that would include witches and wizards who die by more traditional means such as Harry's parents).

Still, there's clearly a connection. We could hear voices from the other side, so, I suspect under the right circumstances, Harry could communicate with Sirius and maybe even his parents.

I think he'll go back to that curtain sometime in the future books, but to speculate any farther than that would be purely guessing.

One thing to think about is that we were told that a dementor's kiss is worse than death because they suck out your soul. My guess is that prevents your soul from passing on to this "other world" that JKR has let us glimpse in the Order of the Pheonix.

Ah! That helped very much, Gary! Thank you! :D

I talked to one of my cousins today who is also very much into Harry Potter. It's the first time I've had the chance to talk to him since I finsihed Book 5, so I was very interested in hearing what he thought about the whole Sirius situation. As it turns out, he is yet another one who thinks Sirius is dead and not coming back. But he also had an interesting view of the curtain. He said he considered it to be the wizard's equivalent to the electric chair (as in he thought it was the wizard's way of putting prisoners to death). At first I thought he could be right, but then I remembered Luna mentioned that her mother had accidentally killed herself and that she and Harry heard her behind the curtain. That and the fact that the Ministry has dementors for prisoner punishment kinda ruled out his guess of a way of exicusion (though, I suppose it's still possible since the arch has supposedly been there for ages).
I reread the part of Sirius's murder earlier today because I wanted to see if Rowling mentioned what color of light had come out of Bellatrix's wand (green would mean certain death). She, in fact, didn't mention any specific color at all (only that Bellatrix had shot at him with a red light (I believe that's a stunning spell) right before, and then another issue of light came from her wand and hit him) and the the whole scene was so vague that it just reassured my thoughts that he's still alive.
But my cousin, my sister, and I all agree that that was a pretty stupid way to die (on Rowling's part, not Sirius's) if he is truely dead.

Gary, I think you have an interesting point in that the curtain is like a "one way road". And, I'd say you're probably right. My hopes, though, is that it's only a one way street for the dead. But, I have to bring this up again, what if Sirius was just unconscious when he fell through the curtain? It may still be difficult to get back to the living world, but it may very well be possible if that be the case. Gary, I agree, I'm almost certain Harry will revisit the curtain...he'll at least learn more about it...he'll have to, otherwise it would be the worst and most unexplained part of any Harry Potter book. But I honestly can't see Rowling leaving us hanging about it. I'm sure she'll explain it completely in the upcoming books.

On a last note, I'd like to bring to mind some of the movies/books where we thought our hero was gone for sure, but later came back in one form or another. Lord of the Rings comes immediately to mind....there were many characters here in which Tolkien made the audience think one of the fellowship had surely perished...Gandalf fell through shadow, actually did kind of die, then came back more powerful. Aragorn was dragged off a cliff by a Warg making Theoden, Gimli, and Legolas believe he was dead. Sam (and the audience) was sure Shelob's sting had killed off Frodo. Then comes Star Wars...Obi Wan and Yoda died but came back as spirits. And even Anakin came back as a spirit after his death.
Of course, there were others, including The Odyssey in which the hero went to Heck and back (literally), but I just wanted to name a few right off hand. I'm not saying these examples will prove anything for the HP series, but I'm just saying that even though we THINK Sirius is dead, nothing is certain just yet (especially in the circumstances in which he 'died') I don't care what Rowlings says!
 

imagineer99

New Member
Can't Voldemort only be killed by Harry or Neville? and Harry can only be killed by Voledemort?

Is that what the prophecy said?

(I read the book over a year ago)
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
Well JK Rowling said that she was shocked that there were 2 events in the third movie that forshadow events to come in books 6 and 7. Well, my mom and I discussed a few things and here's what we came up with:

Remember when Lupin was talking to Harry on the bridge during the movie, and Lupin was like, "You're mother, ahh I knew her. Her beauty, blah blah blah, she helped me out in a sticky situation once..." Hmm.... Perhaps Harry might some how look in a Pensieve and see something along the lines of Lupin dating Harry's mom. Any thoughts?

When Sirius's soul was almost sucked out by the dementors, didn't you notice the blue little light come out of his mouth and go back in? Maybe something like that will happen to Harry where he dies, Voldemort is somehow destroyed during that time, and harry's soul comes back... or atleast something like that. Any thoughs?
 

AliciaLuvzDizne

Well-Known Member
imagineer boy said:
Well JK Rowling said that she was shocked that there were 2 events in the third movie that forshadow events to come in books 6 and 7. Well, my mom and I discussed a few things and here's what we came up with:

Remember when Lupin was talking to Harry on the bridge during the movie, and Lupin was like, "You're mother, ahh I knew her. Her beauty, blah blah blah, she helped me out in a sticky situation once..." Hmm.... Perhaps Harry might some how look in a Pensieve and see something along the lines of Lupin dating Harry's mom. Any thoughts?

When Sirius's soul was almost sucked out by the dementors, didn't you notice the blue little light come out of his mouth and go back in? Maybe something like that will happen to Harry where he dies, Voldemort is somehow destroyed during that time, and harry's soul comes back... or atleast something like that. Any thoughs?
she was shocked? i had thought that she had hinted to him to put those things in.
who knows :)
im totally excited to see what the hints were!!
 

MKCustodial

Well-Known Member
About the Prisoner movie, I read that JK was surprised that Cuaron managed to include 2 or 3 details in the movie that she only hints in the book and that are tied to 6 and 7. One of them, I agree, is the little "blue ball" soul from the Dementor's kiss. The others I have no idea (even though Harry started his whining two movies early with the cry on the snowy rock scene... :rolleyes: ).

As for the Sirius debate, I remember reading before Phoenix was out about how JK kept saying one major character was going to die and how difficult it was for her to write the scene, how she cried a lot and so on. Now, if it was so emotional and heavu for her, and she's the "mother", well, I'm sorry, but he's DEAD. I do think we'll see more of the curtain thing, but having Sirius around as sort of an Obi-Wan to Harry's Luke would take a lot from the "powerful death moment".
 

AliciaLuvzDizne

Well-Known Member
aww give the poor kid a break...he just found out that his parents best friend was responsible for their death. id be pretty upset too (though i do have to agree...thats my least favorite part of the movie, but i think it was put in there to show hermione's character more than harry's)
 

Dizknee_Phreek

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
barnum42 said:
All the rumours about a main character dying were to do with the fifth book and therefore related to Sirius.

As to how dead he is? As has already been pointed out so was Gandalf. And lets not forget Obi Wan Kenobi, he managed to stick around after death.

By the end of the book I did not hate Harry, but I found it hard going though all the teen angst and am wary of the next book, I just hope that particular aspect does not continue.

i just now found this post as i was re-reading this thread. thanks for answering my question about a main character dieing, Barnum! and, i'm always grateful to hear from someone who's optimistic about Sirius's condition! :)

i feel the same way about the next book. 4 and 5 have been so shocking, and the emotional 'teen angst', as you so accurately described it, drags me down so much (i found it difficult to sleep and eat after finishing the 5th book...yes, i allow the books to get to me WAY too easily) that i'm not so sure i even want to read book 6. i will, just because i'm too darned curious about what's going to happen next, but i know it's just going to get worse before it gets any better. seems we still have a while to prepare ourselves, though.
 

barnum42

New Member
I finally caught up with the Harry Potter III film this week and have to say that Gary Oldman's portrayal of Sirius was spot on. Put a lump in my throat.
 

imagineer99

New Member
Barnum, I agree.

Even though the HP movies have their problems, it's clear that they have quite a talented amount of thespians playing the parts.
 

Dizknee_Phreek

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
barnum42 said:
I finally caught up with the Harry Potter III film this week and have to say that Gary Oldman's portrayal of Sirius was spot on. Put a lump in my throat.

He was perfect as Sirius, wasn't he? I think his portrayal made me love Sirius even more! I've since become a Gary Oldman fan (how could I not, after HP3?) After watching it the first time, I immediately looked up his filmography and discovered that we own at least two other movies he's been in (Air Force One and Lost in Space) It's been quite a long while since I had seen either film, so I watched both this past weekend. My sister and I giggled numerous times at the corniness of Lost in Space (Smith and Penny, imo, were the best two in the whole movie). The greatest line, though, was when Smith (played by Oldman) said "Black has always been my color." My sister and I found that funny, in an almost ironic sort of way. It's now one of my all time favorite movie quotes :)

Anyway, on a side note, I believe I may have found more evidence to back up my belief that it's more than likely for Sirius to return in some fashion...I'll explain myself later, and provide a link, but for the time being, I must head off to work.
 

AliciaLuvzDizne

Well-Known Member
Dizknee_Phreek said:
He was perfect as Sirius, wasn't he? I think his portrayal made me love Sirius even more! I've since become a Gary Oldman fan (how could I not, after HP3?) After watching it the first time, I immediately looked up his filmography and discovered that we own at least two other movies he's been in (Air Force One and Lost in Space) It's been quite a long while since I had seen either film, so I watched both this past weekend. My sister and I giggled numerous times at the corniness of Lost in Space (Smith and Penny, imo, were the best two in the whole movie). The greatest line, though, was when Smith (played by Oldman) said "Black has always been my color." My sister and I found that funny, in an almost ironic sort of way. It's now one of my all time favorite movie quotes :)

Anyway, on a side note, I believe I may have found more evidence to back up my belief that it's more than likely for Sirius to return in some fashion...I'll explain myself later, and provide a link, but for the time being, I must head off to work.
cool

um did you also see he was in 2 episodes of FRIENDS? When i was watching these particular episodes the other day i could have SWORN it was Remus Lupin...but after i watched the credits...it was Oldman, i think its pretty funny that i mixed him up with someone else from HP
 

stitch rocks

New Member
AliciaLuvzDizne said:
cool

um did you also see he was in 2 episodes of FRIENDS? When i was watching these particular episodes the other day i could have SWORN it was Remus Lupin...but after i watched the credits...it was Oldman, i think its pretty funny that i mixed him up with someone else from HP

which episodes?
 

AliciaLuvzDizne

Well-Known Member
oops sorry i shoulda posted that
lol
the wedding episodes (Chandler and Monica)
it was really one-hour long episode but they split it into 2 for reruns

gary oldman played the actor opposite joel in the WW2 film...the guy who got real drunk
 

CaptainMichael

Well-Known Member
The title for book six is offically been announced. It is Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince. J.K. Rowling has confirmed the title and has given a hint about the book. The hint is that the Half Blood Prince is neither Harry or Voldemort(Notice she didn't say Tom Riddle). Sirius Black is indeed dead; J.K. Rowling said it, Dumbledore said it, and Lupin said it. The sixth book is *RUMORED* to be possibly released in 4 to 6 months. I believe that the most reasonable time would be December 2004 or sometime in 2005. Half Blood Prince is not very far off. Keep checking J.K. Rowling's website for hints about Half Blood Prince.
 

stitch rocks

New Member
AliciaLuvzDizne said:
oops sorry i shoulda posted that
lol
the wedding episodes (Chandler and Monica)
it was really one-hour long episode but they split it into 2 for reruns

gary oldman played the actor opposite joel in the WW2 film...the guy who got real drunk

oh yeah... i forgot about that.
 

Dizknee_Phreek

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
STR8FAN2005 said:
Sirius Black is indeed dead; J.K. Rowling said it, Dumbledore said it, and Lupin said it.

I still stand by my belief that just because they said it, doesn't mean it's completely true. There's just not enough evidence right now that points in either direction. I still have a feeling that there was a reason why Rowling didn't tell us the spell Bellatrix used or what color of light shot from her wand when it hit Sirius.

Anyway, I thankfully now have time to explain what I meant in my last post...I found this site (http://littlemisswebmaster.co.uk/sirius/) which is a memorial to Sirius. But the webmistress has good reason to believe that he will return (which, I think we can all count on, but the form of his return is still the part in question). She explains her points MUCH better than I will, and I'm only going to bring up some of them. For instance, she brought up the point of how there seemed to be a lack of remorse on the part of Ron, Hermione, and even Lupin...after all, Sirius WAS Lupin's last remaining best friend; you'd think he'd be a little more upset about losing him yet again (or maybe that was the thing...he had already 'lost' him once to Azkaban) She pointed out how much of a contrast there was between Cedric's and Sirius's deaths.
She also brought up the interesting question of "Was that really Sirius who died?" The use of polyjuice potion was mentioned in books 2 and 4, and while this may be unlikely (who'd want to be Sirius other than Lupin?) it's still a possibility, and one, imo, worthy of consideration.
The webmistress also mentioned how Sirius had yet to do anything really worthwhile, and it seemed a waste to build up such a great character, rescue him from the dementors, and then just kill him off. It's highly unfair, for one thing, to Harry, Lupin, and Sirius's fans. Accepting the 'fact' that he's dead seems way too easy..it just seems to go against Rowling's grain, ya know? All of her other plots seem complex, except this part...I'm still hoping for a twist of some sort. And, as I've said, there's still too many loop holes here to really know exactly what's going to happen.
 

CaptainMichael

Well-Known Member
J.K. Rowling said that she hated having to kill Sirius off but that it was necessary to the story. She admitted to crying over it and everything because she knew that he was dead. You may be right, but I doubt it. We must learn to deal with death in these books because a lot more are coming. :cry:
 
OKay I have to wade in here in reference to the thing she was surprised was in 3 as it doesn't come into play until books 6 and 7 and not one of you hhas mentioned it.... UMMMM HELLO THE WHOLE RON HERMIONE HOLDING HANDS THING!!!! they're like so gonna hook up and nobody here noticed that???? :hammer:

*steps down off his box now*
 

AliciaLuvzDizne

Well-Known Member
FantasiaBish said:
OKay I have to wade in here in reference to the thing she was surprised was in 3 as it doesn't come into play until books 6 and 7 and not one of you hhas mentioned it.... UMMMM HELLO THE WHOLE RON HERMIONE HOLDING HANDS THING!!!! they're like so gonna hook up and nobody here noticed that???? :hammer:

*steps down off his box now*
LMAO

THATS WHY I LOVE YOU!!!

but um
i thought that was kinda obvious since the first movie...how they had that love hate relationship right from the start. can we say *blank* tension:kiss:
 
AliciaLuvzDizne said:
LMAO

THATS WHY I LOVE YOU!!!

but um
i thought that was kinda obvious since the first movie...how they had that love hate relationship right from the start. can we say *blank* tension:kiss:


It's nice to be loved :D and yeah it's been there since the first movie but not nearly as blantantly obvious as in this film... and it is that to wich JK was refering in the interview. And in the books it never really started till the Yule Ball in GoF... so......
 

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