Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Purduevian]

The same as mine if they simply knew to book every 2 hours. Plus they would have SDD st 7am, RNR at 10am, MMRR at noon plus the possibility of paying for ROTR in advance so they would have 4 tier 1 rides before they stepped into the park at noon and likely 2-3 more if they went for EMH/rope drop.


1,000,000x better than this new crap they are offering.

I'm not asking what they could have done. I'm asking what you think their day actually looked like. For every person that used to get a RnR LL that now will not get one due to this new system. There is another person that previously did not get a RnR LL and will now get one. On a per ride basis, one person's lose is another person's gain, not everyone can lose.

You personally are probably frustrated because you are less likely to get 8+ good LLs in a day, but Disney doesn't care because now a random family isn't demanding a refund because they only got on 1 or 2 good rides. The system simply can't handle everyone getting more than 6ish(?) good LLs, but will try to get everyone at least 3-5 now.

It remains to be seen if this "spreads the wealth" of good LLs will actually work, or if people will basically continue to get what they got before.

It is also worth debating if someone basically doesn't know anything about LLs should get a similar experience to someone that knows the system in and out.

 

[Dranth]

The fact that Disney brought back pre-booking due to guest feedback suggests that more guests prefer pre-booking.

They also told us that how G+ worked, as a digital version of original FP (minus the paid part), was because of all the feedback about FP+.

That tells me they are reacting to whoever is currently yelling the loudest. The question is will the differences between this and original FP+ cause the same groups to complain again because it ends up with roughly the same issues people hated about FP+ but now we are paying for it.

Also, just not buying it does not stop people from complaining. If someone goes to try and buy it and there are only junk selections or bad times available people may not get it but still complain to guests services or online. Just like people complained about G+ without ever buying it because it didn't "fit" the way they wanted to vacation.

 

[Splash4eva]

I'm not asking what they could have done. I'm asking what you think their day actually looked like. For every person that used to get a RnR LL that now will not get one due to this new system. There is another person that previously did not get a RnR LL and will now get one. On a per ride basis, one person's lose is another person's gain, not everyone can lose.

You personally are probably frustrated because you are less likely to get 8+ good LLs in a day, but Disney doesn't care because now a random family isn't demanding a refund because they only got on 1 or 2 good rides. The system simply can't handle everyone getting more than 6ish(?) good LLs, but will try to get everyone at least 3-5 now.

It remains to be seen if this "spreads the wealth" of good LLs will actually work, or if people will basically continue to get what they got before.

It is also worth debating if someone basically doesn't know anything about LLs should get a similar experience to someone that knows the system in and out.

I just dont understand the logic of “spreading” the wealth because people were lazy and did zero research on what they need to do… i can see not buying it but you pay all this extra money for a product dont know how to use it then complain and demand a refund?!? Are we serious here. Im sorry you go away somewhere you should have some sort of idea in how something works. Yes people like us will have an “advantage” but is that really a bad thing? As much as the system stinks it was not rocket science either yes it was annoying at times but again sadly this is Disney now.. so we being back pre books which supposedly crippled system and now we expect different results when we in theory probably have less capacity on the rides due to more down time and running then less efficiently

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

I just dont understand the logic of “spreading” the wealth because people were lazy and did zero research on what they need to do… i can see not buying it but you pay all this extra money for a product dont know how to use it then complain and demand a refund?!? Are we serious here. Im sorry you go away somewhere you should have some sort of idea in how something works. Yes people like us will have an “advantage” but is that really a bad thing? As much as the system stinks it was not rocket science either yes it was annoying at times but again sadly this is Disney now.. so we being back pre books which supposedly crippled system and now we expect different results when we in theory probably have less capacity on the rides due to more down time and running then less efficiently

I don’t think it’s a bad thing when research nets results. I also think it’s a good thing when use is rewarded, like how this system nets greater results when you’re actually in the park riding attractions instead of setting alarms at the hotel - but that’s an issue plenty here are taking with LLMP vs Genie.

I am fairly sure Disney disagrees with us though. Spreading it around is largely to the benefit of Disney, because they don’t have these systems in place for the minority who has figured out how to use them to the fullest at the expense of the less educated guest and their experience. I think it’s also safe to say they would prefer to spread the wealth around to their less educated hotel guests at the expense of more educated offsite guests.

The why should they spread the wealth conversation is interesting in the context of this thread, because there has been a lot of discussion about how Genie+ was a more fair and level playing field therefore superior. But why shouldn’t they be rewarding their higher spend guests?

 

[Saskdw]

They also told us that how G+ worked, as a digital version of original FP (minus the paid part), was because of all the feedback about FP+.

That tells me they are reacting to whoever is currently yelling the loudest. The question is will the differences between this and original FP+ cause the same groups to complain again because it ends up with roughly the same issues people hated about FP+ but now we are paying for it.

Also, just not buying it does not stop people from complaining. If someone goes to try and buy it and there are only junk selections or bad times available people may not get it but still complain to guests services or online. Just like people complained about G+ without ever buying it because it didn't "fit" the way they wanted to vacation.

I think part of this is they need to fill rooms. They have taken away all the good perks for staying at an overpriced Disney resort.

The 7 days out booking is a huge perk. Also IMO the type of people willing to pay the cost of staying in the Disney bubble like to pre plan. They liked booking ADR's at 180 days out and booking FP+ at 60 days. It also gives them an easy promo opportunity to fill rooms if they want to. Free MLL with Deluxe resort booking!

 

[Saskdw]

I just dont understand the logic of “spreading” the wealth because people were lazy and did zero research on what they need to do… i can see not buying it but you pay all this extra money for a product dont know how to use it then complain and demand a refund?!? Are we serious here. Im sorry you go away somewhere you should have some sort of idea in how something works. Yes people like us will have an “advantage” but is that really a bad thing? As much as the system stinks it was not rocket science either yes it was annoying at times but again sadly this is Disney now.. so we being back pre books which supposedly crippled system and now we expect different results when we in theory probably have less capacity on the rides due to more down time and running then less efficiently

We live in what I call the "entitlement generation". This type of entitled expectation is common place these days. Unfortunately businesses need to plan accordingly.

 

[Saskdw]

The why should they spread the wealth conversation is interesting in the context of this thread, because there has been a lot of discussion about how Genie+ was a more fair and level playing field therefore superior. But why shouldn’t they be rewarding their higher spend guests?

More importantly when those guests stop coming how do they get them to come back.

 

[Purduevian]

I just dont understand the logic of “spreading” the wealth because people were lazy and did zero research on what they need to do… i can see not buying it but you pay all this extra money for a product dont know how to use it then complain and demand a refund?!? Are we serious here. Im sorry you go away somewhere you should have some sort of idea in how something works. Yes people like us will have an “advantage” but is that really a bad thing? As much as the system stinks it was not rocket science either yes it was annoying at times but again sadly this is Disney now.. so we being back pre books which supposedly crippled system and now we expect different results when we in theory probably have less capacity on the rides due to more down time and running then less efficiently

Personally, I agree that those that do more research/planning should have an advantage over someone that doesn't. However, from a company perspective, they want as many people as possible above the "wow that was great, I can't wait to come back" guest satisfaction threshold as possible.

I don't think those of us that are going from 10+ good LLs down to 5-6+ good lightning lanes are going to stop vising the parks. However, I'm guessing the hope is some family's will be pushed into that tier of guest satisfaction that previously got 1-2 good LLs.

 

[Dranth]

I think part of this is they need to fill rooms. They have taken away all the good perks for staying at an overpriced Disney resort.

The 7 days out booking is a huge perk. Also IMO the type of people willing to pay the cost of staying in the Disney bubble like to pre plan. They liked booking ADR's at 180 days out and booking FP+ at 60 days. It also gives them an easy promo opportunity to fill rooms if they want to. Free MLL with Deluxe resort booking!

100% the bolded part.

As for the preplanning, I did and enjoyed it but found once I started using G+ that it was much more relaxing than I thought it would be. Being able to let go and allow how we felt each morning dictate what we did that day instead of having to meet a schedule past me thought we would like was freeing in a way I wasn't expecting and came to appreciate.

Wake up tired, great, start stacking for the evening and go back to bed, eat a late lunch and roll into a park at 2:00 in the afternoon. Get 4, maybe 5 uses and be happy. Wake up ready to go, even better, grab an early return and each time you use one grab another as you move through the park. End up with 10+ uses and be happy.

Changing parks was also easier as nothing was really tying you down except dining, which was easy to work around. Hot day and don't want to deal with AK, great switch to MK and all we have to worry about is a dinner.

Anyway, I realize that not everyone will feel that way and for some the certainty of a pre-book is more important than the freedom, but I really enjoyed it.

 

[doctornick]

I just dont understand the logic of “spreading” the wealth because people were lazy and did zero research on what they need to do…

From Disney's prospective, that's all about improving guest satisfaction (and word of mouth, etc) and reducing complaints at Guest Services and such. Disney cares about keeping guests happy and the low hanging fruit here is the ignorant people who were unhappy with G+ because they didn't get how to use it well and fell it was a waste of money - there's only so much they can do to try to educate guests and it is easier to just blunt force the product to giving everyone who buys at least 3 picks. There's some possible indication that Disney considers 3+ picks to be enough to satisfy more folks as "getting their money's worth".

 

[Splash4eva]

We live in what I call the "entitlement generation". This type of entitled expectation is common place these days. Unfortunately businesses need to plan accordingly.

Or businesses can stand up once again and simply run their business the way they want to…

 

[Splash4eva]

Personally, I agree that those that do more research/planning should have an advantage over someone that doesn't. However, from a company perspective, they want as many people as possible above the "wow that was great, I can't wait to come back" guest satisfaction threshold as possible.

I don't think those of us that are going from 10+ good LLs down to 5-6+ good lightning lanes are going to stop vising the parks. However, I'm guessing the hope is some family's will be pushed into that tier of guest satisfaction that previously got 1-2 good LLs.

I dont think anyone is going to stop going to parks based off how many LL’s one gets but its everything else around it that is their problem. What i will say is this. Someone who is use to getting say the 10+ LL and lose say half of those may now decide to no longer purchase and decide to rope drop or come later. Who knows and imo those who were too dumb to figure the previous systems out and were lazy will be just as dumb and lazy this time around…

 

[Splash4eva]

From Disney's prospective, that's all about improving guest satisfaction (and word of mouth, etc) and reducing complaints at Guest Services and such. Disney cares about keeping guests happy and the low hanging fruit here is the ignorant people who were unhappy with G+ because they didn't get how to use it well and fell it was a waste of money - there's only so much they can do to try to educate guests and it is easier to just blunt force the product to giving everyone who buys at least 3 picks. There's some possible indication that Disney considers 3+ picks to be enough to satisfy more folks as "getting their money's worth".

Disney has missed the mark on what guest want for a long time now… this will be no different… lipstick on a pig once again

 

[TheMaxRebo]

OMG, it’s 90m…it might actually be everything anybody could ever possibly need to know.

It's sort of two videos in one as the first ~30mins is like a "LLMP 101 classroom" explaining everything and then the 2nd part is her actually in the parks, using the system, showing the screens of what she is doing select, modify, etc

 

[capndave]

Yeah it certainly would have taken work to be that terrible at every park on any given day. I think it’s probably a perfect storm of a high crowd day, poor understanding of the system, specific parks being worse than others, and group specific factors that restrict flexibility on both times and attraction choices (ie. Mission Space is a no go). I also think Disneys disclaimer of 2-3 likely was referring to desirable attractions, because a poor understanding of the system probably wasn’t poor enough for someone to be jazzed about Imagination availability lasting all day. If someone was actually getting 1 though, I imagine it has a lot to do with availability being pushed way late in the day and not being able to make what they managed to book.

At the end of the day though, that poor understanding of the system was vital for other people to have a good day.

This whole debacle of Genie, Genie+, and Lightening lane has certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. In light of Disney raising prices on everything especially AP and park admissions to levels higher than most families can afford shows their unbridled greed. I won't be going back with the current level of pricing!! Did I mention I'm also a DVC Owner. We frequently visited the parks and spent alot of money at Disney. I know the loss of my contributions won't break Disney but I'll bet I'm not the only one who feels the same way. Disney smarten up!!!! You are responsible for the inevitable demise of your organization. Walt would be rolling over in his grave to see what you've done to his company.

Disney has missed the mark on what guest want for a long time now… this will be no different… lipstick on a pig once again

I will not be returning to WDW!!!!

 

[Purduevian]

11am check 5 refreshes allowed

Ride	Normal return time	Best return time within the 5 refreshes
Big Thunder	7:35pm	5:25pm
Buzz	2:40pm	1:55pm
HM	7:55pm	5:10pm
Jungle Cruise	9:10pm	6:30pm
Pooh	5:10pm	11:10am
Pirates	5:10pm	N/A
SM	7:05pm	5:25pm
Tiana	Sold out	4:55pm
Frozen	Sold out	N/A
MS	8:00pm	N/A
Remy	Sold out	N/A
SSE	1:15pm	12:25pm
MMRR	3:40pm	N/A
MFSR	2:05pm	12:25pm
RnRC	6:05pm	5:15pm
SDD	Sold out	N/A
TSMM	Sold out	3:00pm
ToT	8:25pm	12:05pm
EE	3:45pm	1:35pm
Kali	5:30pm	2:30pm
Navi	Sold out	N/A

 

[bwr827]

We live in what I call the "entitlement generation". This type of entitled expectation is common place these days. Unfortunately businesses need to plan accordingly.

Disney has a longstanding reputation for gold standard service and experience. (Don’t reply that it’s eroding - we know already.)

Good service and experience often means “that was easy” vs “how do I use this thing I paid for?”

Rewarding power users and keeping barriers in place for uninformed guests is not in Disney’s interests.

 

[Splash4eva]

Disney has a longstanding reputation for gold standard service and experience. (Don’t reply that it’s eroding - we know already.)

Good service and experience often means “that was easy” vs “how do I use this thing I paid for?”

Rewarding power users and keeping barriers in place for uninformed guests is not in Disney’s interests.

You really believe this is easier & guests are any more informed now?

 

[bwr827]

This whole debacle of Genie, Genie+, and Lightening lane has certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. In light of Disney raising prices on everything especially AP and park admissions to levels higher than most families can afford shows their unbridled greed. I won't be going back with the current level of pricing!! Did I mention I'm also a DVC Owner. We frequently visited the parks and spent alot of money at Disney. I know the loss of my contributions won't break Disney but I'll bet I'm not the only one who feels the same way. Disney smarten up!!!! You are responsible for the inevitable demise of your organization. Walt would be rolling over in his grave to see what you've done to his company.

I will not be returning to WDW!!!!

Great - one less family to stand behind in line.

 

[bwr827]

You really believe this is easier & guests are any more informed now?

- Guests get 3 pre-booked at time of purchase
- Many comments about ease of use so far

I didn’t say anything about guests being more informed now.