Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[monothingie]

To translate to the most likely outcome, "Unless we get a major recession and have to bring lots of guests back, we will offer you the opportunity to buy a simpler experience... for the right price." The more this continues, the more I wonder how much of this was anticipated. Put in all these new things. If they work, great. If not, we go back to old ways - now with a 20%, 30%, 40% mark up. And the guests will celebrate it as a win.

You assume that anyone at P&R knows what they're doing, least of all Josh.

This is going to be a very interesting summer.

 

[James Alucobond]

Josh D'Amaro yet again demonstrating his reptilian like instincts in towing the company line.

Most people toe the line when making public statements if they want to remain employed. If any dissent is occurring, would you really expect that to play out in public rather than behind the scenes?

 

[monothingie]

Most people tow the line when making public statements if they want to remain employed. If any dissent is occurring, would you really expect that to play out in public rather than behind the scenes?

Remember, Josh was the people's executive. He was in the trenches with the CMs and brought a fresh new approach to guest relations.

It was all fake.

 

[Skibum1970]

There's no putting the genie back in the bottle on simplicity. (I'll show myself out)

There's no way to simplify the current product offering without compromising the monetization aspects of it. Yes, they can reskin the UI and make it more user-friendly, but guests will still have to go through the process, which is confusing and certainly doesn't win points with guests when they see the final total at checkout.

Though I wasn't a big fan, they could simply go with the "Book three experiences for the Genie+ price that day. If they wanted, they could even provide a pre-30 Day window for resort guests, which would create the value proposition for a resort guest. The other tiers would be Lightning Lane and Virtual Queue. Eliminate the Genie level and just have those three.

 

[monothingie]

Though I wasn't a big fan, they could simply go with the "Book three experiences for the Genie+ price that day. If they wanted, they could even provide a pre-30 Day window for resort guests, which would create the value proposition for a resort guest. The other tiers would be Lightning Lane and Virtual Queue. Eliminate the Genie level and just have those three.

So this is a functional improvement which will add features requested by users of the system.

This does not do much to make the system easier to use and understand. While you can certainly put a new UI skin on it, you still have to deal with the complexity inherent with it, that for new users and guests is still intimidating.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

You assume that anyone at P&R knows what they're doing, least of all Josh.

This is going to be a very interesting summer.

I totally hear you. I actually think they have more plans than they let on publicly. Whether those plans are good or have any guest-facing benefit is a different question. But, I think the economics of various scenarios are discussed more than is shown publicly (at least at the higher levels of management).

 

[Jrb1979]

I am still trying to understand why so many say it's too complicated. It's pretty straightforward. IMO where it's complicated is when people try to stack or constantly modify to fit their schedule.

 

[James Alucobond]

I am still trying to understand why so many say it's too complicated. It's pretty straightforward. IMO where it's complicated is when people try to stack or constantly modify to fit their schedule.

It is complicated in that there are multiple line-skipping methods that each correspond to different sub-sets of rides, some of which overlap and some of which do not. In the grand scheme of things, it's not incomprehensible or anything, but stuff like this should generally be intuitive, which this definitely is not.

 

[Chi84]

I am still trying to understand why so many say it's too complicated. It's pretty straightforward. IMO where it's complicated is when people try to stack or constantly modify to fit their schedule.

It’s complicated in the abstract. When you actually use the system, it’s easy to learn. The problem many have with it is the cost and the uncertainty of knowing what rides you will get and when so you can accommodate plans other than rides.

As with any system, it works better for some and not as well for others depending on how you spend your time at WDW.

 

[Jrb1979]

It is complicated in that there are multiple line-skipping methods that each correspond to different sub-sets of rides, some of which overlap and some of which do not. In the grand scheme of things, it's not incomprehensible or anything, but stuff like this should generally be intuitive, which this definitely is not.

IMO only fix is drop virtual queues all together and go the Universal express pass system. I know they will never do it but they don't have to capacity to keep doing any of these systems

 

[Chi84]

IMO only fix is drop virtual queues all together and go the Universal express pass system. I know they will never do it but they don't have to capacity to keep doing any of these systems

If you know they will never do it and why can you call it a “fix” for WDW?

 

[HauntedPirate]

Josh - "We're listening to guests and fans and trying to make things simpler"

Translation - "I NEED MORE LIPSTICK!!!"

 

[Skibum1970]

It is complicated in that there are multiple line-skipping methods that each correspond to different sub-sets of rides, some of which overlap and some of which do not. In the grand scheme of things, it's not incomprehensible or anything, but stuff like this should generally be intuitive, which this definitely is not.

I agree. My personal preference would be to have one layer called Disney Lightning Lane. It would cost $200/person for Magic Kingdom ($150 for the other three parks). It would grant front of line access for every ride but can only be used for one ride (ex. Use it for 7DMT at 10:00 AM and that was the only time you could use it for 7DMT). They could limit the amount sold to 1,000 (roughly) per day. The effect would be that lines would start moving again, they would still get a revenue stream, and it would be very streamlined. If they so chose, they could give resort hotel guests a discount, dependent on the level of resort.

I wouldn't go full UNI Express Pass Unlimited but something similar. Virtual queues would also disappear completely. However, I highly doubt that they would do this.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I am still trying to understand why so many say it's too complicated. It's pretty straightforward. IMO where it's complicated is when people try to stack or constantly modify to fit their schedule.

It isn't bad when you get used to it and are there doing it - I actually find it more efficient than FP+

BUT trying to explain it? I had friends who were taking their first trip to WDW and I was messaging them trying to explain it and all the nuances make it overly confusing

Like you need one took for most rides but for a few you do a different thing and for some everyone can get their first at 7am but for the only only on site people can but at 7am there are also virtual queues to try for so have to prioritize which to try for first, etc

Maybe "confusing" is a better word than "complicated"

 

[allgiggles]

I am still trying to understand why so many say it's too complicated. It's pretty straightforward. IMO where it's complicated is when people try to stack or constantly modify to fit their schedule.

I didn't find it complicated or confusing either. I think the issue comes in -- like you said -- when people are trying to fit their LL/ILLs between ADRs, children's naps, etc. We only had 2 ADRs during our 8-day trip last year. They were both dinners so it was very easy to work around those. If we had ADRs for 1 or 2 meals *every* day, I can see where it would get frustrating and complicated. That's why choose not to do numerous ADRs on a visit. It just got too difficult to plan everything else around those times...and we have far better restaurants at home so we prefer to focus on rides/attractions at Disney. We didn't have the option of modifying LLs during our trip last year -- that feature came online a few weeks after we were there (we would have to cancel and rebook) so we also didn't have to deal with that "need" to always try and get a better time. We just scheduled our LL/ILLs and filled in with standby lines in between. I had no issues stacking LL/ILLs on the days we slept in and went to the parks later in the morning or early afternoon. I found the Genie+ system to be very simple and easy to use.

 

[TeriofTerror]

I just returned from a trip to WDW, and here is my anecdotal and biased review:
1. Staying at the Polynesian with both morning and evening EMH, G+ was completely worthless. We bought it two days (MK park-hopping to Epcot and DHS park-hopping to MK), and we were able to do everything we wanted without it. We often ended up doing our G+ selections twice, the second time just to use the selections we had made. For context, our longest wait of the trip was our third ride on Space Mountain - 35:54, on a posted wait of 25 minutes. We did skip several things that are must-dos for others because we've done them so many times before - most notably Peter Pan, Navi (I'll never understand this one), and MF:SR.
2. ILL was totally worth it. We were able to rope-drop much of AK because we paid for FoP. Paying for Guardians and Tron also worked out great; the virtual queue for Tron in particular looked awful.
3. For context, it was a six night stay with one afternoon at DS and destination dinners most evenings. (Side note: though not signature dining, we were not disappointed in Steakhouse 71, even though it was sandwiched between stellar meals at Citricos and Jiko.)

 

[surfsupdon]

Returned today from Hard Rock at Universal with an AP rate of 261 for 2 adults with Express Pass. Two nights.

No lines, no phones, no planning, simply amazing. Highly recommend.

 

[FoodRockz]

Returned today from Hard Rock at Universal with an AP rate of 261 for 2 adults with Express Pass. Two nights.

No lines, no phones, no planning, simply amazing. Highly recommend.

Shhhh. We have enough people at Uni nowadays, we don't need anymore.

 

[SamusAranX]

I mean Disney could change it til they’re blue in the face (like a certain genie). It might be less confusing but it’s still not addressing what we know to be the root cause of the problem Genie+ wants to solve but can’t

 

[allgiggles]

The goal should be to simplify these terms/concepts:
Genie
Genie+
Virtual Que
Lightning Lane
Individual Lightning Lane ( aka Individual Attraction Selection)

Those concepts are convoluted to a first-time visitor and difficult to explain to people. If Josh thought park pass reservations were too much of a burden for new visitors to understand what are his thoughts on this list of five concepts that need to be communicated to each day guest?

We do not need a distinction between Genie and Genie+. It should just be one 'thing'. Do away with the public Virtual Que drops. Just have it be a core part of Genie+ like every other ride.

Lightning Lane is a mouthful and doesn't really roll off the tongue (Fastpass was a better phrase). Terrible marketing and branding. Just call it a Virtual Que to align all the language and concepts.

Individual Lightning Lane can be renamed Paid Virtual Que (PVQ sounds a lot like PDQ or pretty darn quick - which kind of fits).

So now we have a buy-in system called Genie+, that gives users access to the Virtual Ques for a suite of attractions and allows them to pay more for the Paid Virtual Ques. From five concepts down to three, and Disney's revenue streams are intact.

I agree. While I didn't find the system in general difficult to use, I do think the terminology/names they use for the system can be very confusing. They could have done a much better job of naming thing and that would eliminate a lot of the initial confusion.