Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Certainly. In reality, the solution here is reduce volume. And we all know what that means.

A plan that’s been claimed, not realistic to their actual goals and hasn’t worked at all to this point?

 

[dreday3]

What happened with Volcano Bay?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes, but there will always be a line reservation system at WDW. People may as well advocate for the one that works best for them.

One system didn’t really work for management…it was a dead ender. And guess who’s vote counts most?

Yes.

I think it has. Nobody really “rejected” fastpass. But there seemed to be a lot of “rejection” or genie…and by default the fee is the deterrent, no?

Do you know whether Disney has ever considered going all standby? No line reservation system at all?

In what year would they do that? Because part of the reason for FP 1.0 designed in 1996 was to manage crowds…and make money. What has/hasn’t happened since?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What happened with Volcano Bay?

Good question…it was designed and built for a system and crowd level. That probably matters

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Is Carousel of Progress enough of a spin? Or, is that to much capacity? It's about the right duration. They could close all the other rides.

It's a great big beautiful tomorrow...

It could work. Just remove the seat cushions and half of the seats. Gotta keep those lines longer so people think it's popular.

 

[UNCgolf]

The problem is when they add capacity, they push the marketing lever to fill that capacity and we're back to square one.

I don't think that's really a legitimate concern anymore.

The parks are busy all the time. Building new attractions doesn't create a massive influx of new guests -- Galaxy's Edge didn't overwhelm DHS and Guardians hasn't created any issues whatsoever at EPCOT (helped by the fact Guardians is a relatively minor draw for the WDW customer base, but that's a separate discussion). Pandora led to something like an 8k daily attendance increase at DAK, but that was with two new attractions and additional dining and shopping. It certainly made the overall park experience better.

 

[UNCgolf]

What happened with Volcano Bay?

They built it to be a VQ only park for all attractions, but that apparently didn't work. You have to have massive amounts of space and a tremendous number of other activities to keep people busy when no one is ever waiting in any lines.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What happened with Volcano Bay?

Volcano Bay is a 100% virtual queue park. You can’t do stand-by for the slides, you have to get a return time. It was part of an effort at Universal to switch to virtual queues that also included Jimmy Fallon’s Race Through New York (which opened without a stand-by queue) and Fast & Furious Supercharged (which was also not supposed to have a stand-by queue). When Volcano Bay opened it was a crowded mess. The things people expect to just be available at water parks like the lazy river were full. The waits for food were horrendous. Universal botched the park capacity calculation and had to reduce how many people they admit to the park.

Virtual queues require more space and more capacity than stand-by because people are still there. You need a place to put them, to give them something to do while they are waiting outside the physical queue. Theme parks are an even bigger puzzle than a water park because lounging around, swimming in the wave pool or drifting along in the lazy river are expected parts of a day at a water park. As much as people like the PeopleMover, just sitting on it for multiple rides right through is not something a large portion of visitors consider a key part of a visit to the Magic Kingdom.

Volcano Bay was supposed to be the big kickoff to Universal’s bold new queue-less future and instead it was the end. Universal Studios Beijing is not a virtual queue park. Epic Universe will not be a virtual queue park.

 

[UNCgolf]

A VQ only park could work if it was designed that way from the ground up, but I have a hard time imagining how it would be economically feasible. It would require so much additional dining, shopping, etc. capacity that operating costs would skyrocket compared to a normal park (would probably need at least double the staff, if not more), not to mention the much larger overall footprint required.

The idea of turning an existing park into VQ only is a pipe dream (and one that no one would actually want to experience unless they charged $1000+ for a one day ticket and/or had a tiny admission cap).

 

[MrPromey]

Volcano Bay is a 100% virtual queue park. You can’t do stand-by for the slides, you have to get a return time. It was part of an effort at Universal to switch to virtual queues that also included Jimmy Fallon’s Race Through New York (which opened without a stand-by queue) and Fast & Furious Supercharged (which was also not supposed to have a stand-by queue). When Volcano Bay opened it was a crowded mess. The things people expect to just be available at water parks like the lazy river were full. The waits for food were horrendous. Universal botched the park capacity calculation and had to reduce how many people they admit to the park.

Virtual queues require more space and more capacity than stand-by because people are still there. You need a place to put them, to give them something to do while they are waiting outside the physical queue. Theme parks are an even bigger puzzle than a water park because lounging around, swimming in the wave pool or drifting along in the lazy river are expected parts of a day at a water park. As much as people like the PeopleMover, just sitting on it for multiple rides right through is not something a large portion of visitors consider a key part of a visit to the Magic Kingdom.

Volcano Bay was supposed to be the big kickoff to Universal’s bold new queue-less future and instead it was the end. Universal Studios Beijing is not a virtual queue park. Epic Universe will not be a virtual queue park.

And when even the People Mover has a 45 minute wait with a castmember standing beyond the stage in the direction of Space Mountain with a "line starts here" sign, you know you're in trouble.

... Unless you're Disney which means you've right-sized things, I guess.

In the case of Race Through New York, the virtual que works well since that's not a popular draw which sounds like a knock but really, it allows the attraction to fit the space really well in a way that something that would require a standby line wouldn't...

But the other problem in terms of the parks IMHO, especially MK (I'm thinking a big part of New Fantasyland), is that when you start having to create more space for people to stand around in because you're pushing VQ systems you're also eating into potential attraction space be it smaller experiences or streetmosphere space* or what have you.

It also makes smaller attractions kind of impossible because they'll be swamped with people. In general, it makes the smaller more intimate experiences that allow guests to get closer and be more involved really hard to pull off without using an upcharge or some other method to force guest to opt themselves out of it.**

Going back to Universal after a long hiatus while I waited for my son to grow into the experiences there, the thing that struck me most was... the number of places to sit down available in those two parks. People weren't sitting around on the ground off in corners like tiny little homeless encampments. There were still benches and seats and things of that nature all over the place and they weren't just full of people monopolizing them - you didn't have to fight anyone for a place to sit because there was no scarcity of available space.

It's so weird what WDW has become.



*Of course, they'd rather not pay for this anymore so no big loss for them, right?

**Also not a problem for Disney, I guess, but it sure creates the "what did my ticket even buy me?" feeling when people get in and find out that whole experiences are designed around required purchases set at prices higher than admission.

 

[Rich Brownn]

And when even the People Mover has a 45 minute wait with a castmember standing beyond the stage in the direction of Space Mountain with a "line starts here" sign, you know you're in trouble.

Doesn't help when 50% of the train goes out empty. They really aren't being very efficient with that ride. Heck, last time I was there Astro Orbitors had a lesser wait than the PeopleMover.

 

[Hawg G]

When there isnt enough capacity & parks being full walk on’s become non existent during most park hours. Im 47 & been going since i could remember & there was no such thing as walk ons growing up. Basically every ride had legit lines & that was with more capacity & less attendance.

That just isn’t true. Before FP, crowds were much lower than now outside Spring Break and Summer. Yes, most rides had lines, because you didn’t get to skip any. But they were all reasonable waits. And as evening came, lines thinned out in general, and many were walkons.

 

[Chi84]

That just isn’t true. Before FP, crowds were much lower than now outside Spring Break and Summer. Yes, most rides had lines, because you didn’t get to skip any. But they were all reasonable waits. And as evening came, lines thinned out in general, and many were walkons.

I suppose that depends on what you consider reasonable waits. We went frequently in the days before FP, and the lines were routinely 60 to 90 minutes long for the more popular rides like Splash and Space. We ended up either skipping rides or having to get to the parks earlier than we wanted or staying later than we planned. With the increased capacity now the lines would be even worse. Even with limited capacity during COVID (we were there in May 2021), the most popular attractions like FOP, ToT and SDD had crazy long lines.

 

[crazy4disney]

That just isn’t true. Before FP, crowds were much lower than now outside Spring Break and Summer. Yes, most rides had lines, because you didn’t get to skip any. But they were all reasonable waits. And as evening came, lines thinned out in general, and many were walkons.

define reasonable? and evening meaning what time? anything leading up to fireworks had crowds it was one of the "tips" back in day ride rides during the fireworks etc....

 

[crazy4disney]

I suppose that depends on what you consider reasonable waits. We went frequently in the days before FP, and the lines were routinely 60 to 90 minutes long for the more popular rides like Splash and Space. We ended up either skipping rides or having to get to the parks earlier than we wanted or staying later than we planned. With the increased capacity now the lines would be even worse. Even with limited capacity during COVID (we were there in May 2021), the most popular attractions like FOP, ToT and SDD had crazy long lines.

exactly... i think we forget how long lines truly were back in the day before FP.... i remember as a kid waiting literally min 60 minutes for everything during the day if not longer but hey that was part of the experience.. hours were longer we would go in the am come back to Contemporary to either take a nap or swim in the pool have some dinner than head back to the parks to do the same & night lines were not much better

 

[Hawg G]

You have your thoughts i have mine. All o cansay is that FP worked like a charm and allowed me basically to never have to go standby with any real line. I know im not alone in that experience as well. So we can go back & forth but one thing i know is Genie is awful & by far awful. Probably had one of my worst trips in 20 years in November & Genie was definitely the major part of it when it came to rides and availability etc.

YOU HAD DAS. You act like you didn’t use it, which is simply not possible with your statements of all the rides you got.

 

[Hawg G]

I remember walk ons at park open and also late at night when regular park hours were longer.

Yup, you could hit 3 E tickets in the first hour no problem. Even with FP. You would grab a FP, walk on BTMRR, then grab another FP, hit Splash, etc. then use your FPS whenever. And once night came, you could enjoy short lines again.

Remember, folks, Pirates almost never had a line, for DECADES outside of a few peak times of the year, and mid afternoons in general.

 

[Disstevefan1]

It will never be free to anyone imo especially deluxe who already have that typeof money to spend. At least not until they need promos to get people thru the gates

That's not a bad idea to run occasional promotions in deluxe resorts; free Genie +
It costs them nothing and it sort of generates an artificial demand for Genie + ; "I wanna get free Genie +, lets stay at the Poly"

 

[G00fyDad]

That just isn’t true. Before FP, crowds were much lower than now outside Spring Break and Summer. Yes, most rides had lines, because you didn’t get to skip any. But they were all reasonable waits. And as evening came, lines thinned out in general, and many were walkons.

What you consider to be reasonable waits may not be to others. I refuse to wait longer than 30 minutes. Always have since I was a kid coming back to the states and taking trips to Kings Island (in the 70's). If I waited in a long line as a child then it was because I did not have the option to go with my mother doing something else and had to wait in line with my dad.

 

[crazy4disney]

YOU HAD DAS. You act like you didn’t use it, which is simply not possible with your statements of all the rides you got.

I never said i didnt use it... stated countless times tho how i did use it... majority was for a reride of something or a gap filler.... w FP i really didnt need to use it especially before it went digital walking from ride to ride to get a return time was not ideal at all..... My trip was not exponentially better because of it....