Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Jrb1979]

Resort guests should be a top priority for sure. They are the ones experiencing a quintessential Disney Vacation and exactly the guest Disney wants returning as often as possible.

I don't disagree with that. Right now people are filling resorts without any perks. If you want to give them perks give them access to the dining plan when it comes back

 

[Disstevefan1]

People compare WD to Universal's Express Pass. But isn't it free for the people staying in their deluxe resorts? I wonder what the breakdown is at Universal - how many people are actually paying the high price as opposed to getting it included with the resort stay. And I wonder how many of those people would buy it at that price if it wasn't. Also, for some reason, this site seems to have a whole lot of single visitors to WDW, at least the ones who post. Charging those prices for the type of families Disney markets to may be an entirely different story.

It’s free when staying at the original three deluxe resorts. I think they have 7 total resorts now?

I only used it once, we stayed one night at Portofino and got free express pass for two days in the parks; check in day and check out day. It was great!

The best thing was, there is no app, no return time, you just get in the express pass line at random. This was many years ago, not sure how well it works now with Universal being so much more popular.

And obviously yes, if a family had to pay for the express pass, it would be very expensive.

On the other hand, visitors to WDW are more accepting to high price, sudden price hikes etc. and we just accept it, pay the price and continue to show up anyway.

I do like the pay one price, no app, just hop in line express pass. They should offer a Disney express pass if you stay at the deluxe resorts. The deluxe resorts would be always fully booked.

Folks will say it won’t work, there are too many rooms in the deluxe category, well what we have now does not work for anyone, deluxe, moderate or value.

 

[aaronml]

IMO, G+ would work a lot better at a higher price point. Double the price to $30 / day and fewer people will buy it, yielding a better experience for those who buy it, and maybe even allowing TDO to reduce LL inventory enough that Standby lines become more tolerable.

The expression “if everyone is special, nobody is special” certainly applies to G+. It cannot be a product that too many people purchase, not with current WDW attraction / park capacity anyhow. Limiting G+ sales will help also, but to limit it as much as is necessary, there would likely be revenue impacts that I’m not sure TWDC would be on board with. You also run the risk of having another “7am boarding group lottery” situation, which is not great for GSATs.

I’m skeptical of the “let’s just implement Universal Express Pass at WDW” approach also — it sounds a lot like the “just implement MaxPass at WDW” feedback that helped lead to G+ in the first place. What works at one park won’t necessarily work at another park. Not all parks are the same. Disney parks are as lot busier than Universal on average. If Disney were to implement an Express Pass style system, they would have to limit sales of it far beyond what it would take to make G+ a viable / useful service at WDW.

 

[crazy4disney]

It’s free when staying at the original three deluxe resorts. I think they have 7 total resorts now?

I only used it once, we stayed one night at Portofino and got free express pass for two days in the parks; check in day and check out day. It was great!

The best thing was, there is no app, no return time, you just get in the express pass line at random. This was many years ago, not sure how well it works now with Universal being so much more popular.

And obviously yes, if a family had to pay for the express pass, it would be very expensive.

On the other hand, visitors to WDW are more accepting to high price, sudden price hikes etc. and we just accept it, pay the price and continue to show up anyway.

I do like the pay one price, no app, just hop in line express pass. They should offer a Disney express pass if you stay at the deluxe resorts. The deluxe resorts would be always fully booked.

Folks will say it won’t work, there are too many rooms in the deluxe category, well what we have now does not work for anyone, deluxe, moderate or value.

Isnt that exactly what Plaid's are for? and you get yourself a tour guide as well lol

 

[DisneyHead123]

Ideally Disney would expand evenly. So every major expansion would = multiple levels of attractions. Case in point Toy Story Land. They added a coaster, and a flat ride. That land should have included another flat ride like Jessie’s Carousel, a major gift shop like Al’s Toy Barn, an indoor meet and greet, and a sit down show like woodys roundup marionette show.

Yes, I am curious as to what the thinking was in overhauling Hollywood Studios and adding so few rides. It doesn't even seem like a money issue because, as you said, they could have added money makers like a gift shop and gotten restaurants in far more quickly.

It seems like Disney was a bit caught of guard by how quickly their popularity as a vacation destination skyrocketed. Hopefully over the next few years their mindset shifts a bit to something like "extreme crowd management" as they understand the reality of growing crowds. I think a looming recession will slow that somewhat but the underlying dynamic is still there - you just don't have other places in the US that are self contained vacation fun bubbles in the way Disney is (Vegas might be the closest thing), and the demand for that is huge.

In the past I've said that eventually meaningful competition will emerge for Disney and that this will bring down crowds, but after seeing how swiftly demand has grown, I don't even know if competition will bring down crowd levels, because it seems like the rate at which demand is growing might continue to be so high. Competition might siphon off some people but the rate of new people coming in might still be higher.

 

[Jrb1979]

IMO, G+ would work a lot better at a higher price point. Double the price to $30 / day and fewer people will buy it, yielding a better experience for those who buy it, and maybe even allowing TDO to reduce LL inventory enough that Standby lines become more tolerable.

The expression “if everyone is special, nobody is special” certainly applies to G+. It cannot be a product that too many people purchase, not with current WDW attraction / park capacity anyhow. Limiting G+ sales will help also, but to limit it as much as is necessary, there would likely be revenue impacts that I’m not sure TWDC would be on board with. You also run the risk of having another “7am boarding group lottery” situation, which is not great for GSATs.

I’m skeptical of the “let’s just implement Universal Express Pass at WDW” approach also — it sounds a lot like the “just implement MaxPass at WDW” feedback that helped lead to G+ in the first place. What works at one park won’t necessarily work at another park. Not all parks are the same. Disney parks are as lot busier than Universal on average. If Disney were to implement an Express Pass style system, they would have to limit sales of it far beyond what it would take to make G+ a viable / useful service at WDW.

Thank you. I couldn't have said it better. It's where the disconnect is when discussing raising prices. It's not about families being able to afford it, its about getting less people to buy it.

Everyone seems to be in agreement that Genie+ doesn't work mainly cause too many people have it and having to limit availability. Yet somehow they don't want to price people out or to cap sales.

 

[Chi84]

I'm not a single visitor. We are a family of 3 and I don't always buy Express Pass when I go. The disconnect here seems to be that many have this mindset that you must buy a skip the line pass to enjoy the parks.

That's not a "mindset." It's a fact for many people who are traveling with groups that include older people and very young children, especially if they have to be on some kind of schedule. I know you don't think it should be that way and that everyone who visits a theme park should have to stand in long lines, but fortunately theme parks haven't adopted that mindset.

 

[Chi84]

It’s free when staying at the original three deluxe resorts. I think they have 7 total resorts now?

I only used it once, we stayed one night at Portofino and got free express pass for two days in the parks; check in day and check out day. It was great!

The best thing was, there is no app, no return time, you just get in the express pass line at random. This was many years ago, not sure how well it works now with Universal being so much more popular.

And obviously yes, if a family had to pay for the express pass, it would be very expensive.

On the other hand, visitors to WDW are more accepting to high price, sudden price hikes etc. and we just accept it, pay the price and continue to show up anyway.

I do like the pay one price, no app, just hop in line express pass. They should offer a Disney express pass if you stay at the deluxe resorts. The deluxe resorts would be always fully booked.

Folks will say it won’t work, there are too many rooms in the deluxe category, well what we have now does not work for anyone, deluxe, moderate or value.

My point is that Disney knows about Express Pass, how it works and that it's free for people staying at Universal's deluxe resorts. The fact that no one here, including various insiders, has mentioned WDW adopting an expensive, unlimited pass that would be given free to resort guests (or even paid for by everyone) seems to indicate that they've considered this system and concluded that it won't work at WDW. But yes, if I could stay at a deluxe resort and get an unlimited skip the line pass, I would love it! (Oh, and I'm DVC so I stay on points. What does Universal do about their vacation club members?)

 

[crazy4disney]

Thank you. I couldn't have said it better. It's where the disconnect is when discussing raising prices. It's not about families being able to afford it, its about getting less people to buy it.

Everyone seems to be in agreement that Genie+ doesn't work mainly cause too many people have it and having to limit availability. Yet somehow they don't want to price people out or to cap sales.

This is still the issue that baffles me... in theory and my guess reality more people used FP+ than Genie+/LL yet there were far less issues if any really for resort guests & its not like people's main complaint of genie is the fcat its now a paid service its the fact its an inferior service...

 

[Jrb1979]

That's not a "mindset." It's a fact for many people who are traveling with groups that include older people and very young children, especially if they have to be on some kind of schedule. I know you don't think it should be that way and that everyone who visits a theme park should have to stand in long lines, but fortunately theme parks haven't adopted that mindset.

I get that some people have issues standing in long lines. I'm not saying everyone has to wait in a long line.

Do you agree that Genie+ doesn't work due to the amount of people that have bought it? Going back to FP+ isn't likely to happen. How do you fix Genie+ without capping sales or raising prices? It's not working with this many people having it.

 

[pdude81]

I wouldn't mind a switch to more ILL, but keep in mind that each additional purchase is another charge to keep track of and potentially refund if a guest complains about it.

Some combination of price raises and sales limitation should keep the revenue in the ballpark. Perhaps they set it to $50 but it's $30 if you are staying on site. I just worry the higher the prices go for these things that it will incentivize people to try and find ways around the purchasing aspect, as we had a wave of "Disney Hack" videos on YT and TikTok last year telling people how to scam rider swap and what to say to get a DAS pass.

 

[crazy4disney]

I get that some people have issues standing in long lines. I'm not saying everyone has to wait in a long line.

Do you agree that Genie+ doesn't work due to the amount of people that have bought it? Going back to FP+ isn't likely to happen. How do you fix Genie+ without capping sales or raising prices? It's not working with this many people having it.

But more people used and had access to FP so why is this now an issue?

 

[Jrb1979]

This is still the issue that baffles me... in theory and my guess reality more people used FP+ than Genie+/LL yet there were far less issues if any really for resort guests & its not like people's main complaint of genie is the fcat its now a paid service its the fact its an inferior service...

You're also forgetting that they took out 2 headliners from each park out of Genie+ inventory. That makes a big difference. The other thing is that there is no longer tiers of rides. With the majority only using it for the top rides it doesn't spread the availability well enough.

 

[pdude81]

But more people used and had access to FP so why is this now an issue?

For one thing there was more to do at each park. Even though most things are back now it's still tough to get many sit down reservations, plus there are still shops and restaurants shuttered. That's before you get to characters meets and other attractions that haven't returned.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

This is still the issue that baffles me... in theory and my guess reality more people used FP+ than Genie+/LL yet there were far less issues if any really for resort guests & its not like people's main complaint of genie is the fcat its now a paid service its the fact its an inferior service...

It's because it was "free." FP+ availability after resort guests had their selections made was dismal. People are also far more likely to make an undesirable selection when it's something they've directly paid for in order to get their money's worth.

 

[Jrb1979]

It's because it was "free." FP+ availability after resort guests had their selections made was dismal. People are also far more likely to make an undesirable selection when it's something they've directly paid for in order to get their money's worth.

Agreed. While FP+ was not great for day of or off-site guests it did a better job of spreading people around the parks. Now it feels like most who use Genie+ only use it for top attractions.

I think there is ways to make Genie+ work. One would be to go back to the tier system. You can only hold 1 top tier ride at a time.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Agreed. While FP+ was not great for day of or off-site guests it did a better job of spreading people around the parks. Now it feels like most who use Genie+ only use it for top attractions.

I think there is ways to make Genie+ work. One would be to go back to the tier system. You can only hold 1 top tier ride at a time.

That was surprising to me as well but that would just be more rules on top of already too many rules. I think the service either needs to be free, severely limited in inventory or more expensive with a skip every line without reservation type feature.

 

[Chi84]

I get that some people have issues standing in long lines. I'm not saying everyone has to wait in a long line.

Do you agree that Genie+ doesn't work due to the amount of people that have bought it? Going back to FP+ isn't likely to happen. How do you fix Genie+ without capping sales or raising prices? It's not working with this many people having it.

I agree that Genie+ does not work. In fact, I don't believe Disney was being altruistic all those years in not charging for FP+. I think they knew full well that - in the unique circumstances of WDW - any skip the line system would have severe limitations and people are more likely to accept a free one on the theory that "you get what you pay for."

FP+ didn't work for everyone, but it worked very well for a great many people who were amenable to doing more than going from attraction to attraction. There's so much to see and do at the WDW theme parks, water parks, resorts and DS. A few rides at scheduled times allowed us to enjoy everything at WDW, including resort entertainment, boat rides, dining, shopping, water parks, parades, fireworks, etc. I know that FP+ didn't work well for those who were more centered on doing rides and didn't like to plan in advance, so I was willing to see what Disney would come up with that would satisfy them. With Genie+, the answer is "nothing."

I wish I had an answer to how Genie+ can be fixed. My family has decided to fix the issue by booking our first cruise on Royal Caribbean next year instead of taking our previously planned vacation to WDW. But I'm an optimist with a pretty good number of DVC points, so I'm following along and keeping an open mind as to whether Disney can come up with a system I can work with - something I've been able to do until the fiasco known as Genie+.

 

[DisneyHead123]

This is still the issue that baffles me... in theory and my guess reality more people used FP+ than Genie+/LL yet there were far less issues if any really for resort guests & its not like people's main complaint of genie is the fcat its now a paid service its the fact its an inferior service...

I think people are missing the pre-planning element, especially because G+ is fairly extreme in how it allows pretty much no planning. I.e.:

- If you score a good reservation, it may conflict with an ADR
- No time selection option, must take 'next available'
- No option to reschedule a time
- Uncertainty about what rides you are going to get until day of

With FP+, even if you got 2 selections that were just "ok" and one that was a throwaway, that gave you a good outline of your day. You knew what you absolutely needed to rope drop, and what rides were FP that you didn't need to worry about. Now, you could rope drop a ride only to have a "Doh!" moment when you see it pop up on Genie+, meaning you could have used LL on that ride but now you've already missed the opportunity to rope drop a different headliner. Or you could do a relatively short 30 minute line only to have that ride pop up on Genie+ the second you get off, meaning you could have spent that 30 minutes waiting for a different ride. You could feel fairly confident that a particular ride is going to show up on Genie+, only to arrive at the parks and find zero availability and a 45 minute line. Etc.

People said that they wanted less planning, but I think when they said that they were envisioning walking leisurely into the park and doing whatever they wanted - no plan, no wait, best of all worlds. When asked to choose between the no preplanning and the ability to get on the rides they want, however, I think obviously people would rather be able to get on the rides they want.

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree that Genie+ does not work. In fact, I don't believe Disney was being altruistic all those years in not charging for FP+. I think they knew full well that - in the unique circumstances of WDW - any skip the line system would have severe limitations and people are more likely to accept a free one on the theory that "you get what you pay for."

FP+ didn't work for everyone, but it worked very well for a great many people who were amenable to doing more than going from attraction to attraction. There's so much to see and do at the WDW theme parks, water parks, resorts and DS. A few rides at scheduled times allowed us to enjoy everything at WDW, including resort entertainment, boat rides, dining, shopping, water parks, parades, fireworks, etc. I know that FP+ didn't work well for those who were more centered on doing rides and didn't like to plan in advance, so I was willing to see what Disney would come up with that would satisfy them. With Genie+, the answer is "nothing."

I wish I had an answer to how Genie+ can be fixed. My family has decided to fix the issue by booking our first cruise on Royal Caribbean next year instead of taking our previously planned vacation to WDW. But I'm an optimist with a pretty good number of DVC points, so I'm following along and keeping an open mind as to whether Disney can come up with a system I can work with - something I've been able to do until the fiasco known as Genie+.

You're right. It doesn't for anyone now. IMO they always wanted to charge for FP and be like every other park out there. It feels like that's all they looked at. They didn't research on why or how they work at other parks.

For my family we have decided to not take our 2 year old anytime soon. Its not the prices as the reason. It's how complex it is to have a good time.