Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Disney Glimpses]

We've done this dance before. I did a podcast episode on it.

Let's see in December, I did the following off the top of my head:

SDD (LL)
Rise (ILL)
MMRR (ILL)
MFSR (LL)
ToT (Standby - only long wait of the day)
RnR (LL)
Mania (LL)
Star Tours (Standby)
Muppet Vision 3D
Frozen Singalong
Slinky Dog (at closing)

I've had similar success with Genie+ as well but it takes a serious amount of finessing at times.

 

[CaptinEO]

If Disney wants to be viewed the same as every other theme park, I'd say that's very bad.

The upcharges are all for special events, seating, or exclusives that people can get on top of the base experience. They don't have a major impact on the base park experience for other guests. I don't love all the nickel and diming there, but that's fair game because the Plaza Garden viewing Dessert party doesn't stop you from staking out a great spot in the hub to watch fireworks. After hours doesn't stop you from getting on rides during the day.

These are add ons that never existed as a free service. Changing from free ride skips to reasonably priced ride skips to shutting out most families ahead of a recession would continue to **** everybody off, and it doesn't even solve all the issues with the current system.

Each of these upcharges takes existing free space and experiences and charges for it.

IMO Disney and their Genie system is WORSE than other themeparks. You have to pay money and continually plan your day via phone. So in this case Disney should be like other theme parks.

 

[mattpeto]

I've had similar success with Genie+ as well but it takes a serious amount of finessing at times.

You are 100% right about that. You have to scout ahead too and really have a plan.

I know it's been a mess for so many people and I'm not minimizing it. But so far, I'm 3 for 3 (Proxied once) with Genie+, even though my wallet hurts more.

 

[Jeff4272]

We've done this dance before. I did a podcast episode on it.

Let's see in December, I did the following off the top of my head:

SDD (LL)
Rise (ILL)
MMRR (ILL)
MFSR (LL)
ToT (Standby - only long wait of the day)
RnR (LL)
Mania (LL)
Star Tours (Standby)
Muppet Vision 3D
Frozen Singalong
Slinky Dog (at closing)

i highly doubt it..........as a matter of fact, thats just flat out not true

 

[Disstevefan1]

Sure if you just walked in and hadn't set anything up and just walked in. IIRC you could make 7 days worth of fastpasses for any 30 day period at the 30 day mark as an AP. It was kind of rolling inventory but there was usually some decent stuff available at 30. I was normally a resort guest so I was in the 60+ camp. I have messed around though in the past and tested making passes for other days just to see if it really worked.

Yea. well my family of three APers NEVER made 7 days of FP+ 30 days out. It was usually having a look on Wednesday for a day trip on Sat. So at least we were not the APers that were eating up the Fast passes... Everybody wants to blame APers on everything, it's so easy!

Going forward, with such crappy WDW AP options, it may be not so easy to blame APers...

 

[Disney Glimpses]

You are 100% right about that. You have to scout ahead too and really have a plan.

I know it's been a mess for so many people and I'm not minimizing it. But so far, I'm 3 for 3 (Proxied once) with Genie+, even though my wallet hurts more.

Yup. Start really early, refresh, refresh, refresh. Try 1 rider at a time, maybe 2, refresh, refresh, refresh. Maybe take advantage of unwritten grace periods, etc.

 

[mattpeto]

i highly doubt it..........as a matter of fact, thats not true

I'll take the high road here.

 

[mattpeto]

Yup. Start really early, refresh, refresh, refresh. Try 1 rider at a time, maybe 2, refresh, refresh, refresh. Maybe take advantage of unwritten grace periods, etc.

I honestly didn't have to do crazy amount of refreshing or changing riders etc. But sometimes it takes that.

 

[Jrb1979]

The biggest problem with Genie+ is people purchasing the service and finding no inventory.

My idea to solve this:

-Genie+ is free to everyone to book one attraction at a time (as long as they've entered the park).
-APs/Resort guests can pay $49 to book 2-3 ahead of time (maybe 15 days).

No 7am rat race, you get your attractions and then there's no risk of people paying and finding nothing. And Disney makes their money.

That's even worse. Their will very good attractions left for those not staying on property. Letting people book 2-3 ahead of time will also hurt some who do pay $49 cause they may not get what they want either. There is too many resort guests for that to work.

IMO the resorts are filing now without perks. If you really want to get rid of the 7am rat race you limit sales like they are doing now but make it like MaxPass. Can't start booking til you enter the park

 

[mmascari]

See I'd much rather plan things in advance than have to figure out every day at 7:00 a.m. what I'm doing and hope that I get what I want. The other thing about the 60-day mark is it spread demand out over a number of days because not everyone was booking on the same day.

I think there's no "good" answer that works for everyone for when the selection window starts. At one end its "after you enter the park" and at the other its "weeks ahead of time". That 7:00 am time is clearly closer to one end. Whenever the window opens, there's a land rush at that time. There's definitely some guest positives around not having to be in the park first. If they made it 7:00 pm the day before, 12 hours earlier, there would just be a rush then. They could make it something obnoxious, like 3:47 am to spread out the rush some.

Selecting just the first, or multiple at the rush time is also a consideration.

The one thing I would like is the ability to select a time that I want an LL for as long as it's available. It stinks that you have to be glued to your phone to wait for a return time if it's not up to that point yet. For example, we often go back to the hotel for a midday break. I would love to schedule an LL for the evening for certain attractions, but if they're still in the mid after late afternoon return times, I have to keep checking my phone till they get to the time that I want. Let me pick a time for each LL.

That would be super nice too. At the very least, the ILL should work that way. Pick an attraction and show me a column from now/when it opens at the top and when it closes at the bottom. Color code it, green lots of opens, blue limited, red very few, and just nothing/background color when there are none. Let me scroll to a time on the column, show some times then, pick one and temporarily hold the closest to that time to confirm. Then, confirm and get that time, or go back and release the temp hold. Like getting a movie theater seat.

For an ILL, they should know the entire inventory at the start of the day. Just let me pick anything that's open.

For a regular LL, if they're metering in a fixed amount per hour, they should know the full inventory at the start of the day and could do those too.

They could keep the same restrictions on how often you can make additional reservations.

This type of update, to how the LL are picked shouldn't need to wait until 2023. Updates like this shouldn't impact needing to refund prior purchases. There's lots of updates they could make like this.

 

[Jeff4272]

That's even worse. Their will very good attractions left for those not staying on property. Letting people book 2-3 ahead of time will also hurt some who do pay $49 cause they may not get what they want either. There is too many resort guests for that to work.

IMO the resorts are filing now without perks. If you really want to get rid of the 7am rat race you limit sales like they are doing now but make it like MaxPass. Can't start booking til you enter the park

Resort sales will be affected........People paying $20k for a vacation for 7 nights in a Deluxe room, park tickets, food, transportation, flights etc. will want to know they can get on the rides they want without waiting 2+ hours......

Its coming and it will be here sooner rather than later

 

[Disney Glimpses]

i highly doubt it..........as a matter of fact, thats just flat out not true

I'm not sure what's so highly contested here. 2 of the rides he listed are ILL, 5 are standby (2 shows and 1 right at close).

He booked 4 with Genie+, likely started the day with SDD. The rest aren't that difficult to get...

 

[crazy4disney]

The biggest problem with Genie+ is people purchasing the service and finding no inventory.

My idea to solve this:

-Genie+ is free to everyone to book one attraction at a time (as long as they've entered the park).
-APs/Resort guests can pay $49 to book 2-3 ahead of time (maybe 15 days).

No 7am rat race, you get your attractions and then there's no risk of people paying and finding nothing. And Disney makes their money.

honestly i dont think anyone enjoyed booking 180 days out for dining especially if you wanted a character meal then 60 days out to match up with said reservations but ill say this that way imo is way better than a pot luck waking up that early to purchase genie then tap as fast as you could to get that 1 ride.... & im saying this as some one who has access to DAS and utilized the pre booking in November which basically served as a FP anyways but there is no reason they cant find a way to open up choosing an attraction and dining at roughly the same time

 

[Purduevian]

I think there's no "good" answer that works for everyone for when the selection window starts. At one end its "after you enter the park" and at the other its "weeks ahead of time". That 7:00 am time is clearly closer to one end. Whenever the window opens, there's a land rush at that time. There's definitely some guest positives around not having to be in the park first. If they made it 7:00 pm the day before, 12 hours earlier, there would just be a rush then. They could make it something obnoxious, like 3:47 am to spread out the rush some.

Allowing guests to book once they enter the park would actually solve a few of the issues people complain about the most.
1)LL return times wouldn't jump around nearly as much when you are trying to book your first LL
2) It doesn't force your to get up every morning at 7am
3)Rides wouldn't go nearly as fast as they currently do

Disneyland does their G+ this way and it works for them... in fact most "experts" say you shouldn't book your first LL as soon as you get into the park (if there for rope drop) because you will get a space mountain LL for 30 minutes from now when the line will still be short.

Another big issue with FP+ was if you didn't know about it on the first day of your trip... you were basically screwed for the whole trip

At least with G+ if someone shows up and learns about it, they can buy it their second day and have the same chances as everyone else.
Another thing I feel like would really help is to actually take a ton of inventory out of LL

I like that the DLR version of it... its not on every single ride, thus diluting it's value and making it less of a must have. Rides without LL at DLR:
Pirates, Alice, Astro, Casey Jr. Davy Crockett, monorail, railroad, dumbo, Gadget's go coaster, inside out, Jessie's, Jellyfish, jungle cruise, Carousel, Luigi, Mater, Tea, Mark Twain, Mr. Toad, Peter Pan, Pinocchio, Pal Around, Columbia, Silly Symphony, Snow White, Canal Boats, Little Mermaid, Winnie the pooh, Nemo, main street vehicles and Zephyr
All without watching other people use the LL to get ahead of you... this turns it from a must have to a nice to have

Compare that to the ride list at wdw that doesn't use LL
Astro Orbiter, Gran Fiesta Tour, River Boat, main street vehicles, Carousel, Peoplemover, TriceraTop Spin, Carousel of Progress, Wildlife Express Train, and the Railroad

You can have an awesome day at DLR without ever being cut by someone in LL... sure you might miss the headliners, but there is so much you can do that many people opt not to use it there.

Compared with WDW where almost every single line you get in without a LL has people passing you.

WDW has better "value" in that its only $15 for 40 rides vs DLR $20 for 19 rides... but that makes all the difference in how many people are willing to buy it, thus making it actually far more valuable at DLR.

 

[G00fyDad]

honestly i dont think anyone enjoyed booking 180 days out for dining especially if you wanted a character meal then 60 days out to match up with said reservations but ill say this that way imo is way better than a pot luck waking up that early to purchase genie then tap as fast as you could to get that 1 ride.... & im saying this as some one who has access to DAS and utilized the pre booking in November which basically served as a FP anyways but there is no reason they cant find a way to open up choosing an attraction and dining at roughly the same time

I did.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Allowing guests to book once they enter the park would actually solve a few of the issues people complain about the most.
1)LL return times wouldn't jump around nearly as much when you are trying to book your first LL
2) It doesn't force your to get up every morning at 7am
3)Rides wouldn't go nearly as fast as they currently do

Disneyland does their G+ this way and it works for them... in fact most "experts" say you shouldn't book your first LL as soon as you get into the park (if there for rope drop) because you will get a space mountain LL for 30 minutes from now when the line will still be short.

Another big issue with FP+ was if you didn't know about it on the first day of your trip... you were basically screwed for the whole trip

At least with G+ if someone shows up and learns about it, they can buy it their second day and have the same chances as everyone else.
Another thing I feel like would really help is to actually take a ton of inventory out of LL

I like that the DLR version of it... its not on every single ride, thus diluting it's value and making it less of a must have. Rides without LL at DLR:
Pirates, Alice, Astro, Casey Jr. Davy Crockett, monorail, railroad, dumbo, Gadget's go coaster, inside out, Jessie's, Jellyfish, jungle cruise, Carousel, Luigi, Mater, Tea, Mark Twain, Mr. Toad, Peter Pan, Pinocchio, Pal Around, Columbia, Silly Symphony, Snow White, Canal Boats, Little Mermaid, Winnie the pooh, Nemo, main street vehicles and Zephyr
All without watching other people use the LL to get ahead of you... this turns it from a must have to a nice to have

Compare that to the ride list at wdw that doesn't use LL
Astro Orbiter, Gran Fiesta Tour, River Boat, main street vehicles, Carousel, Peoplemover, TriceraTop Spin, Carousel of Progress, Wildlife Express Train, and the Railroad

You can have an awesome day at DLR without ever being cut by someone in LL... sure you might miss the headliners, but there is so much you can do that many people opt not to use it there.

Compared with WDW where almost every single line you get in without a LL has people passing you.

WDW has better "value" in that its only $15 for 40 rides vs DLR $20 for 19 rides... but that makes all the difference in how many people are willing to buy it, thus making it actually far more valuable at DLR.

Another advantage Disneyland has: theirs includes PhotoPass while WDW's doesn't (and they took PhotoPass away from the APs on top of that).

 

[Jeff4272]

I did.

I loved having everything pre booked so we could then just enjoy our trip

now with park reservations it wouldnt matter anyway.....you have to know what park you're in so it actually makes more sense than ever to pre plan

why leave it up to a random program and someone with a faster finger to get ur dining reservation and LL? makes no sense whatsoever

 

[mikejs78]

Allowing guests to book once they enter the park would actually solve a few of the issues people complain about the most.
1)LL return times wouldn't jump around nearly as much when you are trying to book your first LL
2) It doesn't force your to get up every morning at 7am
3)Rides wouldn't go nearly as fast as they currently do

Disneyland does their G+ this way and it works for them... in fact most "experts" say you shouldn't book your first LL as soon as you get into the park (if there for rope drop) because you will get a space mountain LL for 30 minutes from now when the line will still be short.

Another big issue with FP+ was if you didn't know about it on the first day of your trip... you were basically screwed for the whole trip

At least with G+ if someone shows up and learns about it, they can buy it their second day and have the same chances as everyone else.
Another thing I feel like would really help is to actually take a ton of inventory out of LL

I like that the DLR version of it... its not on every single ride, thus diluting it's value and making it less of a must have. Rides without LL at DLR:
Pirates, Alice, Astro, Casey Jr. Davy Crockett, monorail, railroad, dumbo, Gadget's go coaster, inside out, Jessie's, Jellyfish, jungle cruise, Carousel, Luigi, Mater, Tea, Mark Twain, Mr. Toad, Peter Pan, Pinocchio, Pal Around, Columbia, Silly Symphony, Snow White, Canal Boats, Little Mermaid, Winnie the pooh, Nemo, main street vehicles and Zephyr
All without watching other people use the LL to get ahead of you... this turns it from a must have to a nice to have

Compare that to the ride list at wdw that doesn't use LL
Astro Orbiter, Gran Fiesta Tour, River Boat, main street vehicles, Carousel, Peoplemover, TriceraTop Spin, Carousel of Progress, Wildlife Express Train, and the Railroad

You can have an awesome day at DLR without ever being cut by someone in LL... sure you might miss the headliners, but there is so much you can do that many people opt not to use it there.

Compared with WDW where almost every single line you get in without a LL has people passing you.

WDW has better "value" in that its only $15 for 40 rides vs DLR $20 for 19 rides... but that makes all the difference in how many people are willing to buy it, thus making it actually far more valuable at DLR.

I don't think this would work for WDW.. It also penalizes people who are trying to book for later in the day or who don't want to get their rope dropping. DLR is a very different place than WDW. What works there won't necessarily work here.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

honestly i dont think anyone enjoyed booking 180 days out for dining especially if you wanted a character meal then 60 days out to match up with said reservations but ill say this that way imo is way better than a pot luck waking up that early to purchase genie then tap as fast as you could to get that 1 ride.... & im saying this as some one who has access to DAS and utilized the pre booking in November which basically served as a FP anyways but there is no reason they cant find a way to open up choosing an attraction and dining at roughly the same time

I'm glad they cut the 180 days down to 60. I didn't hate booking dining at 180 days, but it was too far out and really only served to encourage people to book their trips no less than 6 months in advance. There obviously needs to be some degree of booking dining in advance (and I'd still like booking FP+/G+ selections in advance, too), but 60 days (+length of stay) is adequate.

 

[Patcheslee]

I think if they are worried about refunds, it's dangerous to allow people to purchase a month in advance. Are you saying they would allow for the booking of passes in advance also or just the booking of the service? I think operationally it would be tough for them to allow people to book the actual rides ahead of time unless they severely limited the number of these sold.

I don't really have armchair solution here... Perhaps they can do better by simply limiting purchases, then finding a way to add some additional value to it (snack credit, reserved fireworks spots as G+ options) and raising the price. At $15 people may add this every day, but if it were $30 I think you pick your spots. It just can't be the same exact thing for double the price.

Maybe that's why refunds are apparently being issued in many cases. From the beginning the value hasn't been big in any park except MK. If it was pre-booked for every day, could there be problems issuing a refund for a portion of the trip?