Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Purduevian]

Seriously? Do you how it works? SDD was sold out before I hit enter. I had to take it or not ride it without waiting 3 hours.

Yeah, and the same issue happened on 7D, SDD, and FOP in the old FP+ days. They would sell out further than 60 days out (due to the length of stay rule). You then had 3 options to ride SDD
1)Refresh a lot over the course of the next 60 days, also shouldn't accept anything that would interfere with dinning
2)Ride standby in whatever line there was (personally never seen a 3 hour SDD line, but I'm sure it rarely happens)
3)Don't ride it

It is a crappy part of G+ (not being able to pick the exact time you want), but SDD had even worse issues for me while on FP+ (No times available 60 days out). Lets not pretend that allowing people to pick times would suddenly open up tons of availability on SDD at 7:01am

 

[danlb_2000]

I mean, you can cancel and rebook a new ride that has a time that fits your schedule? Again or you can cancel and refresh a few times to see if a proper time option for the ride pops up. No one forced you to book the 7pm SDD. Just like 60 day out FP+ if the ride doesn't have a time that fits your schedule, book something else.

You cannot cancel an individual lighting lane, once you have paid that's it. You also can't really pick a time. You can see the time that is available when you start the purchase, but you have no guarantee of getting it, you only find out the time once you have completed the purchase.

 

[Purduevian]

You cannot cancel an individual lighting lane, once you have paid that's it. You also can't really pick a time. You can see the time that is available when you start the purchase, but you have no guarantee of getting it, you only find out the time once you have completed the purchase.

SDD isn't an ILL

 

[Disstevefan1]

I honestly never found criss-crossing the parks to be an issue with FP+. I'm sure it could be an issue for people who aren't familiar with the layout of the parks (or who underestimate how much walking is really involved), but being able to schedule the times in advance allowed my wife and I to make it so that we just did one loop around the park. Maybe we'd hit something in the middle on the way out if we missed it the first time.

Yes, being able to schedule the times 60 + days in advance with FastPass + helped to minimize criss-crossing, obviously the later you try to schedule the worse selections you would get and APers trying get a FastPass + a few days in advance or day of got the bottom of the barrel as far as selection.

With Genie + everybody is day of at 7AM so that is for sure worse, by 7:03 all the good times are gone and if you sleep late you first LL is at 7:03PM for an attraction you don't really want but you paid for Genie + so you take it.

 

[danlb_2000]

SDD isn't an ILL

You actually expect me to pay attention to what I am responding to?

 

[BrianLo]

I agree that being able to pick times for SDD wouldn't actually allow one to actually pick times. It would sell out too quickly to matter. I hate to say it, but the obvious solution is just not to ride SDD and enjoy other (better) attractions.


FP+ is an operational disaster. Ops does not want to encourage guests to show up at 1PM to wait 5 minutes for a headliner. Ops does not want people pre-booking. It's kind of a mild miracle they even let you book your first LL from bed and not after tapping into the parks. I know this was the norm for years at WDW, but it was broken operationally. There's a reason Disney's five other resorts never touched FP+.

Until people have actual suggestions that are not 'bring back pre-booking' and 'I don't want to show up until noon, but expect to be able to do everything I want with ease'... this discussion is going no where.


Personally, I think the biggest solution is G+ can't be booked until you've tapped into the parks. Since on site have EMH this gives them that slight advantage. The reason Disney doesn't seemingly want to do this is two fold. Not having rope droppers stop in the entrance to fiddle with the app and because they are averse to giving anyone an advantage to sell more of this. But then not only would people have to 'be up', they'd have to *gasp* get out of beds and get to the parks.

 

[UNCgolf]

Personally, I think the biggest solution is G+ can't be booked until you've tapped into the parks. Since on site have EMH this gives them that slight advantage. The reason Disney doesn't seemingly want to do this is two fold. Not having rope droppers stop in the entrance to fiddle with the app and because they are averse to giving anyone an advantage to sell more of this. But then not only would people have to 'be up', they'd have to *gasp* get out of beds and get to the parks.

This would be better for people who want to sleep in a bit too, because you wouldn't need to be up at 7 AM.

It would be bad for people who like sitting down to eat breakfast at their resort hotel, but that would be a relatively small number of guests.

As for the Ops argument -- I'm not seeing that one. Why does it matter operationally if someone shows up at 1 PM and waits 5 minutes for a headliner? Their place in the FP+ queue was already scheduled, so it shouldn't really matter when they show up. And Genie+ doesn't stop that practice anyways; there's very little difference operationally between Genie+ and FP+.

 

[BrianLo]

As for the Ops argument -- I'm not seeing that one. Why does it matter operationally if someone shows up at 1 PM and waits 5 minutes for a headliner? Their place in the FP+ queue was already scheduled, so it shouldn't really matter when they show up. And Genie+ doesn't stop that practice anyways; there's very little difference operationally between Genie+ and FP+.

That's what I meant by I'm surprised they let you book while not tapped in at all. Operationally you want guests using the beginning and end of the park hours. Not holding themselves a place in queue during the busiest times in the park when they aren't even there yet. The parks can't sustain the Smiths showing up in the afternoon, riding three headliners and taking off. That just displaces others. Assuming the limiting factor is Per Person Hourly ride capacity and not physical waiting space.

This all leads to this mess because the barrier to entry was arriving for rope drop. Now it's merely waking up and despite what we hear frequently here, that isn't stopping anyone.

I think the part of Genie+ that doesn't work is the fact it's not tied to being in the park. MaxPass, legacy FastPass etc. never had this as a feature.

Other than WDW not having any capacity of course... and the loons felt dropping two more attractions out of each parks bucket would be ok. I don't think Disneyland has these same problems.

 

[UNCgolf]

That's what I meant by I'm surprised they let you book while not tapped in at all. Operationally you want guests using the beginning and end of the park hours. Not holding themselves a place in queue during the busiest times in the park when they aren't even there yet. The parks can't sustain the Smiths showing up in the afternoon, riding three headliners and taking off. That just displaces others. Assuming the limiting factor is Per Person Hourly ride capacity and not physical waiting space.

This all leads to this mess because the barrier to entry was arriving for rope drop. Now it's merely waking up and despite what we hear frequently here, that isn't stopping anyone.

I think the part of Genie+ that doesn't work is the fact it's not tied to being in the park. MaxPass, legacy FastPass etc. never had this as a feature.

Other than WDW not having any capacity of course... and the loons felt dropping two more attractions out of each parks bucket would be ok. I don't think Disneyland has these same problems.

Park hopping is also an issue with not requiring people to be in the park. People load up on Genie+ times at a different park so they can ride a bunch of rides quickly after they hop.

 

[WDWJoeG]

Park hopping is also an issue with not requiring people to be in the park. People load up on Genie+ times at a different park so they can ride a bunch of rides quickly after they hop.

That's what I hate about these systems - it makes the entire Disney theme park experience about "rides" when it is so much more than that. You don't full experience an entire land, its ambience, shops, and restaurants - its race to get a FP for this ride and then to this park for this one!

Does such a disservice to the entire concept - just depressing what is has devolved into.

 

[Chi84]

That's what I hate about these systems - it makes the entire Disney theme park experience about "rides" when it is so much more than that. You don't full experience an entire land, its ambience, shops, and restaurants - its race to get a FP for this ride and then to this park for this one!

Does such a disservice to the entire concept - just depressing what is has devolved into.

FP+ did just the opposite for us. We booked our 3 rides and then took our time between windows to do all those things you described - walked around Pandora, had a drink at Nomad Lounge, walked through the wildlife areas, etc. We weren’t glued to our phones trying to make last-minute decisions on what to ride - or even worse, standing in a 2-hour long line to ride FOP.

 

[JAB]

That's what I hate about these systems - it makes the entire Disney theme park experience about "rides" when it is so much more than that. You don't full experience an entire land, its ambience, shops, and restaurants - its race to get a FP for this ride and then to this park for this one!

Does such a disservice to the entire concept - just depressing what is has devolved into.

That's not true for everyone, though. For us, it has the exact opposite effect. The time we saved by not waiting in long lines allowed us to take our time in the park, wander through shops, or even take time to just sit on a bench, relax and people watch.

 

[Rob562]

I think the part of Genie+ that doesn't work is the fact it's not tied to being in the park. MaxPass, legacy FastPass etc. never had this as a feature.

For Disneyland's Genie+ you have to have entered the park to book your first ride reservation, or even buy Genie+ if it's not part of your ticket. While that does limit the pool of people going for ride reservations, it essentially goes back to the era of paper FP's by encouraging/rewarding rope-droppers.

Our first WDW trip in the Genie+ era is in 10 days, and we're only planning on purchasing it for three of our 7 days. (One MK and two Studios) We *might* buy an ILL for Flight of Passage, but that would be a day-of decision. It'll be interesting to compare notes afterward with friends who will be there at the same time that bought tickets that included G+ for their entire family before consulting me on whether that was their best option.

-Rob

 

[tired_photog]

I think one of the biggest problems the 7 AM system causes is a growth in the number of rope droppers. You're already up at 7, may as well go to the parks now. Thus eliminating some of the benefit of rope dropping and making the crowds larger earlier.

I noticed this as well on my recent visit. Rope drop crowds at all of the parks were bigger than I’ve ever seen before.

 

[pdude81]

This is true. By monetizing line skips they've incentivized people to arrive earlier. I wonder if that also has the effect of lessening crowds at closing time, or if it's just a more even distribution.

 

[drizgirl]

This is true. By monetizing line skips they've incentivized people to arrive earlier. I wonder if that also has the effect of lessening crowds at closing time, or if it's just a more even distribution.

It also doesn’t help that everyone is setting their alarms for 6:45 AM. Once up, it only makes sense to just go on to rope drop.

 

[pdude81]

It also doesn’t help that everyone is setting their alarms for 6:45 AM. Once up, it only makes sense to just go on to rope drop.

For the most part this is right. Sadly on Easter Sunday I'll already be in the park at 7.

 

[G00fyDad]

This is true. By monetizing line skips they've incentivized people to arrive earlier. I wonder if that also has the effect of lessening crowds at closing time, or if it's just a more even distribution.

According to those that have been lately the lines seemed to have been near walk-ons later in the evenings.

 

[Jeff4272]

I mean, you can cancel and rebook a new ride that has a time that fits your schedule? Again or you can cancel and refresh a few times to see if a proper time option for the ride pops up. No one forced you to book the 7pm SDD. Just like 60 day out FP+ if the ride doesn't have a time that fits your schedule, book something else.

Yeah, and the same issue happened on 7D, SDD, and FOP in the old FP+ days. They would sell out further than 60 days out (due to the length of stay rule). You then had 3 options to ride SDD
1)Refresh a lot over the course of the next 60 days, also shouldn't accept anything that would interfere with dinning
2)Ride standby in whatever line there was (personally never seen a 3 hour SDD line, but I'm sure it rarely happens)
3)Don't ride it

It is a crappy part of G+ (not being able to pick the exact time you want), but SDD had even worse issues for me while on FP+ (No times available 60 days out). Lets not pretend that allowing people to pick times would suddenly open up tons of availability on SDD at 7:01am

Never once did i have a problem getting a FP+ at 60 days out.......Not even close....

Not only that, but I could pick any time i wanted at any park i wanted, there were literally hundreds of times slots available for all the top rides..........

 

[Jeff4272]

Yeah, and the same issue happened on 7D, SDD, and FOP in the old FP+ days. They would sell out further than 60 days out (due to the length of stay rule). You then had 3 options to ride SDD
1)Refresh a lot over the course of the next 60 days, also shouldn't accept anything that would interfere with dinning
2)Ride standby in whatever line there was (personally never seen a 3 hour SDD line, but I'm sure it rarely happens)
3)Don't ride it

It is a crappy part of G+ (not being able to pick the exact time you want), but SDD had even worse issues for me while on FP+ (No times available 60 days out). Lets not pretend that allowing people to pick times would suddenly open up tons of availability on SDD at 7:01am

Never happened to me once in the history of FP+.....and I went several times a year for the 10+ or so years FP+ was in place....never once did i not get even the newest and best rides, at any time i wanted