Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[LittleBuford]

So just to be clear, your final stance is that the experience of the mass invalidates that of the individual, which is EXACTLY the position you and Buford constantly and indignantly ascribe to posters who critique Disney.

You have clearly misunderstood my stance, so let me clarify. I don’t think of “the experience of the mass” when I spend my time and money at Disney. Call me selfish, but I concentrate on making my own experience as fun as possible, while, of course, following Disney’s rules and behaving with consideration towards other guests. I do not apologise for my approach. In practical terms, it is indistinguishable from that of every person who uses line-skipping services, yourself included.

 

[hopemax]

I haven’t confused anything. The mass of people are enjoying WDW while some individuals are not and desperately want others to join them.

This has clearly become unproductive argument. You take care and enjoy WDW in whatever way makes you happy. I’ll do the same.

You don't have this evidence. You have evidence that masses of people are at WDW. Which is not the same thing. Those people could be experiencing a range of reactions from enjoyment to infuriation, but you don't have the tools to determine which. Disney does to some extent. They know why people are visiting Guest Services, but a lot of people don't, and just grumble the whole time. The real determinant is what percentage of people book future vacations compared to previous years and encourage others. Which is also data Disney has but you do not. Guests, especially first-timers can't register their enjoyment level before they registered as a gate click. Attendance is not a good proxy for enjoyment. Interest level, yes. People are interested in Disney Theme Parks, and as long as if people interested > people who didn't have a good time, you can hide all matter of sins from public eye.

 

[Chi84]

The mass of people might be enjoying WDW right now but IMO a lot of that is still from people making up from cancelled trips.

Word of mouth goes a long way. I'm helping by telling people who ask if Disney's worth it, that it's better to go somewhere else.

That’s certainly your prerogative. I’m telling them it’s still worth it but not nearly as good as it was with FP+. The place is still absolutely the best vacation venue for my family, but given the recent developments I wouldn’t be surprised if that changed.

 

[LittleBuford]

You are absolutely intent on depicting anyone with an opposing view as a hypocrite and have been throughout this thread.

By the way, where is the “rebuke” you’ve railed against for pages here?

I’m not going to rehash details of a conversation that has dragged on for far too long already. Those interested enough can simply read the posts in question for themselves.

Happy Thanksgiving, all.

 

[Casper Gutman]

You have clearly misunderstood my stance, so let me clarify. I don’t think of “the experience of the mass” when I spend my time and money at Disney. Call me selfish, but I concentrate on making my own experience as fun as possible, while, of course, following Disney’s rules and behaving with consideration towards other guests. I do not apologise for my approach. In practical terms, it is indistinguishable from that of every person who uses line-skipping services, yourself included.

This discussion was about the effect of line skipping on the parks in general. You and Chi made it all about your specific experience. This has happened repeatedly. No one wants you to apologize for your approach in the parks. And you do not know how I or anyone else uses line-skipping, so cut that out.

Now let’s get back to talking about how G+ impacts the parks.

 

[Chi84]

You don't have this evidence. You have evidence that masses of people are at WDW. Which is not the same thing. Those people could be experiencing a range of reactions from enjoyment to infuriation, but you don't have the tools to determine which. Disney does to some extent. They know why people are visiting Guest Services, but a lot of people don't, and just grumble the whole time. The real determinant is what percentage of people book future vacations compared to previous years and encourage others. Which is also data Disney has but you do not. Guests, especially first-timers can't register their enjoyment level before they registered as a gate click. Attendance is not a good proxy for enjoyment. Interest level, yes. People are interested in Disney Theme Parks, and as long as if people interested > people who didn't have a good time, you can hide all matter of sins from public eye.

I don’t know. We go often and the people there seem to be having a pretty good time. I guess it’s possible they’re miserable and just hiding it well.

 

[Casper Gutman]

You don't have this evidence. You have evidence that masses of people are at WDW. Which is not the same thing. Those people could be experiencing a range of reactions from enjoyment to infuriation, but you don't have the tools to determine which. Disney does to some extent. They know why people are visiting Guest Services, but a lot of people don't, and just grumble the whole time. The real determinant is what percentage of people book future vacations compared to previous years and encourage others. Which is also data Disney has but you do not. Guests, especially first-timers can't register their enjoyment level before they registered as a gate click. Attendance is not a good proxy for enjoyment. Interest level, yes. People are interested in Disney Theme Parks, and as long as if people interested > people who didn't have a good time, you can hide all matter of sins from public eye.

We do know that Disney did not mention G+ or LL once at its multi-day PR fest. That’s an interesting data point.

We also know there have been a number of violent conflicts in the park over the last several months. More then usual? I’d be curious to know.

 

[bubbles1812]

That's the problem right there. Not every ride needs to be like Rise. They need a mixture. MK is the perfect example of a mixture of quality and quantity. That's what DHS, AK and Epcot needs.

I’m skeptical multiple Dumbos solves the problem, when relatively few people wish to ride it. People are still gonna flock to ROTR and FOP. No amount of additional rides, unless an equivalent E ticket is built, helps their wait times.

Not to say all the parks don’t need new rides. They absolutely do.

But this goes back to my original point and the point of this thread… this problem isn’t fixed tomorrow, even if they announced multiple builds. Hence, the advent of FP, FP+, and G+x

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don’t know. We go often and the people there seem to be having a pretty good time. I guess it’s possible they’re miserable and just hiding it well.

TRON, Ratatouille and Evolving EPCOT represent over $1 billion in response to declining satisfaction and the inability to avoid adding capacity.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I’m skeptical multiple Dumbos solves the problem, when relatively few people wish to ride it. People are still gonna flock to ROTR and FOP. No amount of additional rides, unless an equivalent E ticket is built, helps their wait times.

Not to say all the parks don’t need new rides. They absolutely do.

But this goes back to my original point and the point of this thread… this problem isn’t fixed tomorrow, even if they announced multiple builds. Hence, the advent of FP, FP+, and G+x

But FP etc. fix nothing. They break things in a different way.

And lots of non-headliners would absolutely help the load on RotR. That’s how DL works. A Pixar-based Fantasyland, replete with multiple cheap dark rides, would be a boon at MGM.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But this goes back to my original point and the point of this thread… this problem isn’t fixed tomorrow, even if they announced multiple builds. Hence, the advent of FP, FP+, and G+x

No, not hence. The reservation systems aren’t the result of making the best of a bad situation as you keep claiming, they are what creates the bad situation. They’re the wrong turn, not the alternate route after you’ve made the wrong turn.

 

[G00fyDad]

I’m skeptical multiple Dumbos solves the problem, when relatively few people wish to ride it. People are still gonna flock to ROTR and FOP. No amount of additional rides, unless an equivalent E ticket is built, helps their wait times.

Not to say all the parks don’t need new rides. They absolutely do.

But this goes back to my original point and the point of this thread… this problem isn’t fixed tomorrow, even if they announced multiple builds. Hence, the advent of FP, FP+, and G+x

Just to way in on a fine point here, SDD is not on the same level as RotR yet people can't get to it fast enough. It's LL's are going fast! I honestly believe that if Disney were to build three or four new C or D level attractions each in DHS, AK, and Epcot that they would be massive people eaters. People flock to the "new".

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just to way in on a fine point here, SDD is not on the same level as RotR yet people can't get to it fast enough. It's LL's are going fast! I honestly believe that if Disney were to build three or four new C or D level attractions each in DHS, AK, and Epcot that they would be massive people eaters. People flock to the "new".

The challenge is that they would need to be actual people eaters and not cost a fortune.

 

[Jrb1979]

I’m skeptical multiple Dumbos solves the problem, when relatively few people wish to ride it. People are still gonna flock to ROTR and FOP. No amount of additional rides, unless an equivalent E ticket is built, helps their wait times.

Not to say all the parks don’t need new rides. They absolutely do.

But this goes back to my original point and the point of this thread… this problem isn’t fixed tomorrow, even if they announced multiple builds. Hence, the advent of FP, FP+, and G+x

I know they aren't fixing the capacity issue any time soon. I know the reason behind the system, which IMO they have botched since the days of FP. Skip the line systems should never be used to control crowds. Genie+ should have been brought in as a similar system to Express Pass. Priced high so few buy it but those that so will enjoy it.

As far as attractions go, you're right the top attractions will always have long waits. It's no different at any amusement park. You still need those lower tier attractions for people to ride. They may not get the same waits as the top tier rides but it helps take people out of the queues of top rides.

 

[hopemax]

I don’t know. We go often and the people there seem to be having a pretty good time. I guess it’s possible they’re miserable and just hiding it well.

I've never had a vacation that wasn't good in some way or another. But that doesn't mean it met the standard, overall, for repeatability or recommendation. Or if you could go back and time and do it all over again, you would answer yes. It would have to be maximum level bad for a lot of people to come to that conclusion.

infuriating -here-----------|------------------- enjoyable

instead of infuriating ---------here--|------------------- enjoyable

or infuriating -------------------|-here------------------- enjoyable

No business would ever want their customers to reach that first one, level bad. Most people are also too polite to launch into a rant in front of other guests. But I have talked to many people who say "Yes, they are having fun... but...laundry list of issues and OMG about the cost of it all." So having fun, possibly, really satisfied...I am not so confident.

 

[Jrb1979]

The challenge is that they would need to be actual people eaters and not cost a fortune.

There is a ton of flat rides that can be put in that don't cost a fortune. I look at the rides that DCA in Pixar Pier when they first opened. They weren't highly themed but they did the trick.

 

[Chi84]

I've never had a vacation that wasn't good in some way or another. But that doesn't mean it met the standard, overall, for repeatability or recommendation. Or if you could go back and time and do it all over again, you would answer yes. It would have to be maximum level bad for a lot of people to come to that conclusion.

infuriating -here-----------|------------------- enjoyable

instead of infuriating ---------here--|------------------- enjoyable

or infuriating -------------------|-here------------------- enjoyable

No business would ever want their customers to reach that first one, level bad. Most people are also too polite to launch into a rant in front of other guests. But I have talked to many people who say "Yes, they are having fun... but...laundry list of issues and OMG about the cost of it all." So having fun, possibly, really satisfied...I am not so confident.

I agree. A WDW vacation is not for everyone and I’m brutally honest in describing the downsides if anyone asks me for advice. I flat out told one friend not to go if she didn’t want to deal with the research and planning. You can certainly have a great time if you go in understanding what to expect. Disney is making it harder though.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There is a ton of flat rides that can be put in that don't cost a fortune. I look at the rides that DCA in Pixar Pier when they first opened. They weren't highly themed but they did the trick.

Loading the parks with cheap junk won’t do the trick either. Paradise/Pixar Pier is like the example of what not to do.

 

[wutisgood]

Loading the parks with cheap junk won’t do the trick either. Paradise/Pixar Pier is like the example of what not to do.

There are a lot of rides that are cheap but not junk. Disney just doesn't know or care to make them.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There are a lot of rides that are cheap but not junk. Disney just doesn't know or care to make them.

Dropping in a bunch of flat rides, even if built by Zamperla, isn’t building a themed experience. It’s a carnival experience.