Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Jrb1979]

Just curious how do you handle dining?

We rarely eat on property is how we handle it. We have found better and cheaper options off site. We just do quick service for lunch when in the parks.

 

[runnsally]

I enjoy(ed) pre-planning for WDW - viewed it as part of the hobby.

I also enjoyed using Maxpass at DL.

Of course the new system is an upcharge, but everything travel related is more $ these days. We’ll be ok folks…

 

[FeelsSoGoodToBeBad]

For me it had nothing to with it being hard. It all has to do with the amount of pre planning. It's not how my family vacations. The most planning we do is our flight and hotel. We pre plan very little. I do enough planning in my every day life. My vacations are more spontaneous.

I get that. I'm the keeper of the schedule all day, every day here; that's just the way it has always been. With five ppl, we definitely need someone driving the bus! I'm torn on what I think of DG+ and thankful our trip is still 7 or so months away. I am NOT a fan of IA$ and am not even considering supporting that program as it very much feels like I'm paying for something I got for free before. That said, I did not enjoy trying to coordinate FP+ and ADRs for our trips in the past - that def added to my stress levels during planning, but once it was done, it was DONE. Now, knowing I'm going to have to keep a closer eye on my phone and watch the clock to make sure I get the next window for LL makes my eye twitch a bit. Hopefully it is far better than my imagination is making it out to be. I'm anxious to see how things shake out.

 

[Trauma]

We rarely eat on property is how we handle it. We have found better and cheaper options off site. We just do quick service for lunch when in the parks.

So that’s a fair point.

However others have pointed out to maximize the value of GP+ you will have to spend your whole day at the parks.

So either you will eating a lot of very late dinners offsite and waking up at 7am the next day or you will losing out on GP+ value.

Now that might not matter to you at all but wouldn’t it be reasonable to say that it will matter to some families?

Im trying to make the argument that not planning ahead also has it sets of drawbacks. I’m not downplaying the sense of freedom that it gives you.

Everything has a price and sometimes that price is hard to measure.

 

[Jrb1979]

So that’s a fair point.

However others have pointed out to maximize the value of GP+ you will have to spend your whole day at the parks.

So either you will eating a lot of very late dinners offsite and waking up at 7am the next day or you will losing out on GP+ value.

Now that might not matter to you at all but wouldn’t it be reasonable to say that it will matter to some families?

Im trying to make the argument that not planning ahead also has it sets of drawbacks. I’m not downplaying the sense of freedom that it gives you.

Everything has a price and sometimes that price is hard to measure.

Its how my family already does the parks. We go for rope drop and stay almost all day. We have late dinners usually at home.

 

[Trauma]

Its how my family already does the parks. We go for rope drop and stay almost all day. We have late dinners usually at home.

I would hope that the system was designed to improve the guest experience of the “average” guest.

I would assume most people visiting the world on an annual basis do not have a house within “driving home to eat” distance.

 

[Jrb1979]

I would hope that the system was designed to improve the guest experience of the “average” guest.

I would assume most people visiting the world on an annual basis do not have a house within “driving home to eat” distance.

I don't live near Disney. I live in Canada.

 

[flynnibus]

I feel like I still need to do long term planning.

I need to make park reservations.

I need to make dining reservations 60 days in advance.

Making fast pass reservations ahead of time only took a few minutes I don’t understand what was so hard about it.

Because handling 1 constraint at a time is reasonable. But when you are asked to interlock 2-3, and also be at the whim of the whole thing becoming invalid for reasons you don't control (weather, sickness, individuals...) it's stupid and overbearing. It makes a system so rigid that you become a slave to decisions you made in isolation months before vs doing what makes sense now. That's stupid and the core of the problem Disney made worse and worse the more reservations they put into the model, especially with reservations that were hard to secure (scarcity).

Park reservations are dumb - and should go away. It's gonna stick around though because it is Disney putting artificial constraints on everyone because they want to keep dynamic limits on the individual ticket types.

ADRs on their own aren't that bad.. Its when you started having to schedule everything and you had not just 1-2 scarce reservations you were trying to not change for risk of losing it, but things for every day that were too risky to change. That's when the thing collapsed onto itself.

So to summarize... having a small number of reservations you don't want to change and need to work around is fine. You can adapt easily enough without great consequence. But when you have 2-3 systems interlocking, and one change can cause ripple effects and losses elsewhere.. it's a mess.

 

[Trauma]

I don't live near Disney. I live in Canada.

Got it, when you wrote ”We have late dinners usually at home” I read that as you go home after the parks and eat.

 

[flynnibus]

By design, DG+ has rolling availability. The people who grab their first LL at 7 won't be able to take all the LLs throughout the day. They can't get another one until 9, leaving people who missed the 7:01 AM grab to get one for a little bit later. As people become eligible to grab a second LL, they're locked out again until they get on the ride or wait 2 hours (whichever is sooner). That leaves others to grab a LL. And so on.

The concern is the typical legacy FP one. The headliner will run out of available slots right away... because everyone wants it. If people take every FoP slot, they don't need to care if the slot they pick is at 4pm, because in the old model they wouldn't be blocked out of other uses until 4pm.. only until their cool off period times out.

Same with the paid slots... just having to wait to a later timeslot alone isn't a big enough discouragement for people to take the slot.

This is why people are freaking they need to make reservations at 7am... not because they want the first reservations, but because they think the pool for the day will be depleted.

I think Disney won't let that happen - by not letting all slots be available 'first come first serve' but instead use multiple releases of blocks. I just don't think they will rely on user tolerance to be the regulator.

 

[MurphyJoe]

I think Disney won't let that happen - by not letting all slots be available 'first come first serve' but instead use multiple releases of blocks. I just don't think they will rely on user tolerance to be the regulator.

Multiple release blocks could make things interesting from a maximizing G+ LL selection standpoint. Do I make a selection now or do I wait 5 minutes for a possible replenishment on the hour which could be sooner? As usual, the more complex Disney makes their systems, the more visitors need to know them inside and out, and how they relate to each other, to fully utilize what's available.

 

[Trauma]

Because handling 1 constraint at a time is reasonable. But when you are asked to interlock 2-3, and also be at the whim of the whole thing becoming invalid for reasons you don't control (weather, sickness, individuals...) it's stupid and overbearing. It makes a system so rigid that you become a slave to decisions you made in isolation months before vs doing what makes sense now. That's stupid and the core of the problem Disney made worse and worse the more reservations they put into the model, especially with reservations that were hard to secure (scarcity).

Park reservations are dumb - and should go away. It's gonna stick around though because it is Disney putting artificial constraints on everyone because they want to keep dynamic limits on the individual ticket types.

ADRs on their own aren't that bad.. Its when you started having to schedule everything and you had not just 1-2 scarce reservations you were trying to not change for risk of losing it, but things for every day that were too risky to change. That's when the thing collapsed onto itself.

So to summarize... having a small number of reservations you don't want to change and need to work around is fine. You can adapt easily enough without great consequence. But when you have 2-3 systems interlocking, and one change can cause ripple effects and losses elsewhere.. it's a mess.

Your argument makes alot of sense. Your also not wrong.

I will attempt to make a counterpoint.

What I am being so overly dramatic about as you so eloquently put it earlier, is the fact that I now have to wake up at 7am everyday of my trip to ”optimize” my experience with Genie.

I would argue that alone is a form a Pre planning as my mornings are now predetermined.

This is something new that I did not have to do previously except on days that I wanted a boarding group.

Your celebrating the fact that you no longer need to pre plan your trip.

I would argue you still need to pre plan your trip just not to the extent that you did previously.

In summary myself and guests that share my mindset are being coerced into a completely new and less than desirable behavior.

Your behavior pattern will remain largely unchanged minus some stress that would occur during the pre planning stage at home.

I’m not so sure I buy the argument that this allows you to act with more freedom in the parks, as you are still beholden to what Disney allows you to do and when.

In summary since we all have different value systems as to what constitutes a good day in the parks, its hard to argue what system is better.

I would just hope since the new system costs $$$ that the experience will be improved otherwise personally I will be disappointed.

 

[Trauma]

The concern is the typical legacy FP one. The headliner will run out of available slots right away... because everyone wants it. If people take every FoP slot, they don't need to care if the slot they pick is at 4pm, because in the old model they wouldn't be blocked out of other uses until 4pm.. only until their cool off period times out.

Same with the paid slots... just having to wait to a later timeslot alone isn't a big enough discouragement for people to take the slot.

This is why people are freaking they need to make reservations at 7am... not because they want the first reservations, but because they think the pool for the day will be depleted.

I think Disney won't let that happen - by not letting all slots be available 'first come first serve' but instead use multiple releases of blocks. I just don't think they will rely on user tolerance to be the regulator.

If your assumption is true and they use blocks of time slots, we will be able to determine when those blocks get released and “optimize” our use of the system.

 

[Waters Back Side]

If availability is spread out, there should not be a problem getting Soarin and Frozen the same day
Or MMRR and Smugglers the same day and being able to wake up st 9am to do so instead of 7 am so that you can time it for park arrival at noon. If I can go on TSMM, MFSR, MMRR, RNRC and TOT in one day during a peak week like Christmas, even if it requires some waiting until later in the day at times that were not ideal after the first one, I'll be satisfied.

My test is this...Dec. 30 Magic Kingdom. If for 15 dollars a day per person in my family we can ride on Jungle, Pirates , Haunted Mansion, Splash and Big Thunder and Buzz between park arrival of 11am and park close I will be happy with Genie +. Then I got more rides for the money I paid and the ones I wanted most. 3 or 4 rides a day when it was free was good enough. Now in choosing to pay for this Genie + which I still do not like as much as FP+, my expectations are that I can wake up saying I want to ride this this and that today. 7am is actually a bad time for me to wake up and book my first ride because all of them will have early availability. So I'll wait until 9am and pick my first choice for 10 am or closest to that time. On a busy week, sleep in, start my day and go on 4 or 5 of the rides I wanted.

 

[flynnibus]

Multiple release blocks could make things interesting from a maximizing G+ LL selection standpoint. Do I make a selection now or do I wait 5 minutes for a possible replenishment on the hour which could be sooner? As usual, the more complex Disney makes their systems, the more visitors need to know them inside and out, and how they relate to each other, to fully utilize what's available.

No, what you are describing is 'the more visitors need ot know them inside and out to OPTIMIZE what's available' - not what is needed to just be a fat happy customer.

Of course the more complex they make it, there are tradeoffs, but let's not jump to the other extreme that complexity automatically means customers must use that complexity to their advantage to function. It can be as simple as 'check back later' graphics or they get a push notification that a preferred ride now has slots, etc.

 

[flynnibus]

I would argue that alone is a form a Pre planning as my mornings are now predetermined.

I would counter that you probably brush your teeth each morning too - but we don't take that obligation to spell out arguments that your mornings are 'predetermined'. You also keep assuming that the 7pm window is somehow mandatory... but you don't know that is it is to get what exactly? The opening LL times? Any LL times?

Your celebrating the fact that you no longer need to pre plan your trip.

I would argue you still need to pre plan your trip just not to the extent that you did previously.

I counter by saying sure I'm doing some planning - but instead of having to do it 6months detached from my vacation, I am doing it based on what I know what is going on. The task is more frequent, but it's smaller chunks and less at stake, with less interlocking dependencies. So

- I'm more informed
- I am only booking one day, so there is less pieces facing lock in
- I'm only booking one day, so there is less to book, so it's an easier task
- I'm able to make choices based on real-time conditions so I can make better choices
- I'm able to make choices based on real-time conditions so I can take those factors into our preferences

Simple examples:

1) Your kid rides BTMRR for the first time and now decides it's the greatest thing ever and wants to do it as much as possible. When I book day by day, I can take that into account and plan accordingly. If I was locked into what I booked 6 months ago, I can't listen to my kid and adjust what we are doing.

2) Your family does a commando day at two parks on Monday, and Monday night you tell everyone 'ok, we gotta get up early tomorrow for our planned Typhoon Lagoon day!' and everyone moans they don't want to spend all day in the sun after being wiped out... So they want to sleep in and do something more lightweight tomorrow. When I'm booking day by day, I can actually listen to my family and adapt and still have a good shot at attractions for what we decide to do... not be punished because my family didn't realize 6 months ago what 95deg heat would really do to them on a long day.


People used to think 'park commando' was a bad label... a sign of planning and schedule being more important that just having fun. But Disney has conditioned people that 'structure is good! plans >> reality'. That's not relaxing.

I'll take 5 mins of self-service on my phone over having a master plan that took hours to create coming unraveled and missing out on opportunities because of cascading events that may not even be in my control.

In summary myself and guests that share my mindset are being coerced into a completely new and less than desirable behavior.

I would say its not new - just returning more to what it was before FP+ advanced scheduling.

I’m not so sure I buy the argument that this allows you to act with more freedom in the parks, as you are still beholden to what Disney allows you to do and when.

A critical piece is I can work on a day at a time, based on what is actually happening.. and can adapt. Really ADRs are the long pole, and frankly I wish Disney would do away with the ridiculous 100% ADR model anyway.

 

[Trauma]

I would counter that you probably brush your teeth each morning too - but we don't take that obligation to spell out arguments that your mornings are 'predetermined'. You also keep assuming that the 7pm window is somehow mandatory... but you don't know that is it is to get what exactly? The opening LL times? Any LL times?

I’ll respond to this first since I have to run out but all of your points are well thought out and valid.

Maybe I have a fundamental misunderstanding so I’ll explain it to you how I see it.

It’s my understanding you can make your second LL reservation 2 hours after the first - so you can stack them.

That would mean it’s clearly optimal to make a reservation at 7am allowing you to make your second reservation at 9am.

Unless I’m missing something I don’t think it’s disputable that to “maximize” Genie you need to make your first reservation at 7am.

 

[CastAStone]

The concern is the typical legacy FP one. The headliner will run out of available slots right away... because everyone wants it. If people take every FoP slot, they don't need to care if the slot they pick is at 4pm, because in the old model they wouldn't be blocked out of other uses until 4pm.. only until their cool off period times out.

Same with the paid slots... just having to wait to a later timeslot alone isn't a big enough discouragement for people to take the slot.

This is why people are freaking they need to make reservations at 7am... not because they want the first reservations, but because they think the pool for the day will be depleted.

I think Disney won't let that happen - by not letting all slots be available 'first come first serve' but instead use multiple releases of blocks. I just don't think they will rely on user tolerance to be the regulator.

Also how many people do people think are gonna buy this thing? I’m guessing 20-30%, tops. So the idea things will sell out early is a little bit comical to me.

 

[UNCgolf]

Also how many people do people think are gonna buy this thing? I’m guessing 20-30%, tops. So the idea things will sell out early is a little bit comical to me.

It might start out that way, but I think the usage rate will increase significantly once it's been around for a couple of years and information about it is everywhere.

I'll be surprised if it's less than 50%, at least during busy times. It definitely won't be 100%, but 100% of people weren't using FP+ either. There will be a smaller number of users than there were with FP+, but it'll be interesting to see how much smaller.

 

[flynnibus]

Also how many people do people think are gonna buy this thing? I’m guessing 20-30%, tops. So the idea things will sell out early is a little bit comical to me.

I bet every 'regular' Disney customer will buy Genie+ at least some of their days of every trip. Noobs? I guess it depends on how they book their trip, but I bet more than half will give in during their trip and buy Genie+

How many will buy paid LL? I think that one will still vary a ton depending on runtime conditions. But there are thousands of guests for which an extra $100 to buy their way out of a problem will do so with barely a hestitation. Just look at every 'dining package' and 'fireworks desert' event that Disney has been managing to sell for years now. Those people were simply buying their way out of a problem for ONE show. They'll do the same for their headliners when lines are bad.

Disney won't have any problem with people paying...