Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[lazyboy97o]

Adding a new E-ticket that will likely be virtual-queue-only for two years is probably the worst possible thing imaginable from a capacity perspective.

We tend to talk about capacity as throughput-per-hour, and there's some utility to that. But really what we care about when we talk about capacity is crowding. To alleviate crowding, you need square footage to put bodies, not attractions that entertain guests for 60 seconds and then dump them right back on the footpaths to further clog up the Tangled/Peter Pan/Small World bottleneck. They need indoor physical queues that people are willing to wait hours in, and large theaters that can hold hundreds of people for 25 minutes at a time.

Animal Kingdom Kites and reopening Indiana Jones would do more to alleviate perceived crowding than TRON, which will almost certainly make crowding *worse,* not better.

TRON and Ratatouille are both knee jerk reactions dropped into a park as is wherever they could fit, spatial design be damned. That’s why TRON is sitting away in a corner behind a tight corner. It’s a great example of the vicious cycle of costs. TRON survived while the theater died because TRON can be marketed and will show up on surveys. It’ll induce demand, not soak up demand, but something had to be added and Disney’s costs are too far out of control to do something that can just be accepted as a cost of business.

Hourly capacity is the primary metric but what you are mostly describing is instantaneous capacity, how much space is there to put people at a single moment. This is where longer rides, which typically have more ride vehicles, help more with crowding than a short ride that reaches a similar hourly capacity. An offshoot is then instantaneous queue capacity, so a higher capacity ride will have more people in 20 minutes of space and people are more willing to wait for longer experiences.

 

[havoc315]

Tron is a cult classics for Gen X

so if you relate…you relate…

if you’re younger…the world offers more balls of string to chase

I'm a Gen X'er, perfect age for Tron... and I've still never seen the whole movie from start to finish.
Yes, it's a cult classic -- Not a mainstream classic.
In the year of release -- 1982, it was successful, but not exactly a top movie -- It ranked 26th at the box office, way below ET, Indiana Jones, Rocky III, Star Trek Wrath of Khan...
In fact, it was even below Time Bandits and Conan the Barbarian.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

By definition, a "cult following" is a small, quirky, dedicated following. Not a mass mainstream following.
Definition of a cult following from wikipedia:
"A film, book, musical artist, television series, or video game, among other things, is said to have a cult following when it has a small, but very passionate fanbase."

Yes, lots of people have seen it... like lots of people have seen The Rocky Horror Picture Show, Spinal Tap, Mystery Science Theater, Twin Peaks, and Babylon 5 --- But a small minority of WDW guests.

I love you because you just brought up B5…which I just watched…

cult followings tend to also become more revered with time.

office space being a great modern one…

…and sometimes it takes a different form. Shawshank did poorly upon release…almost no one saw It.

it’s considered a top 10 movie all time by many and has been seen/played as much as any film on tv.

but it started with a small, ardent base of supporters and critics

 

[flynnibus]

When they announced the Tron coaster.... I was a bit bewildered. Nobody really associates Tron with traditional or classic Disney. And nobody under about 50 years of age really even is familiar with Tron. (not exactly a Star Wars level classic, and the sequel, at best, was a modest lukewarm success 10 years ago). I'm willing to bet a lot of the people who get on the ride won't even know it's from a movie.

Are you from a really rural town who wasn't quite clear where yewarope is?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Hourly capacity is the primary metric but what you are mostly describing is instantaneous capacity, how much space is there to put people at a single moment. This is where longer rides, which typically have more ride vehicles, help more with crowding than a short ride that reaches a similar hourly capacity. An offshoot is then instantaneous queue capacity, so a higher capacity ride will have more people in 20 minutes of space and people are more willing to wait for longer experiences.

Cool, I learned a new term today. Instantaneous capacity is what Disney lacks and needs, and what any sort of virtual queuing system completely destroys.

 

[havoc315]

I love you because you just brought up B5…which I just watched…

cult followings tend to also become more revered with time.

office space being a great modern one…

…and sometimes it takes a different form. Shawshank did poorly upon release…almost no one saw It.

it’s considered a top 10 movie all time by many and has been seen/played as much as any film on tv.

but it started with a small, ardent base of supporters and critics

But I guarantee you, 90% of Disney guests have never seen Babylon 5..
And Shawshank didn't gradually slowly grow in appreciation: It was nominated for 7 academy awards! So it very quickly entered the mainstream, once it got that attention.

 

[flynnibus]

TRON is good IP fodder for a theme park attraction. It won't draw BECAUSE it's TRON, it'll draw because it's a fun ride. See also: Splash Mountain, Flight of Passage.

Hell, see what Taylor Kitsch is up to these days and make a John Carter ride.

People don't need to know Test Track's theme origin to recognize and connect with the set design used. Same thing with the TRON coaster - you don't need the movie's plot or even details to connect with or enjoy with sci-fi setting. People come to be entertained, not because they are fans of the IP.

 

[Jrb1979]

Can we get back to how bad Genie+ is? (kind of half kidding, kind of not kidding)


Is there any insider knowledge or published feedback of how hotel sales have been going for the fall? I am expecting October to be somewhat busy with the 50th kicking off, but what about the other normal busier weeks like Thanksgiving, Christmas etc.?

I guess I am really hoping this becomes a colossal failure and management has egg on their face from trying to take advantage of their most loyal customers

No matter how much you wish for FP+ to come back it's not likely. G+ is here to stay. They will offer discounts to get people to stay on site.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But I guarantee you, 90% of Disney guests have never seen Babylon 5..
And Shawshank didn't gradually slowly grow in appreciation: It was nominated for 7 academy awards! So it very quickly entered the mainstream, once it got that attention.

I’m not arguing with you…on either case

shawhank was critically acclaimed…but so was life is beautiful

they don’t run that on loop on TNT

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No matter how much you wish for FP+ to come back it's not likely. G+ is here to stay. They will offer discounts to get people to stay on site.

It’s not going away…

discounts are up to the consumer

 

[Casper Gutman]

Agree with all of this, but I'll also add that I don't think Marvel is doing Universal many favors either. It's such a brutal juxtaposition when you have WWoHP, which looks like a Joe Rohde-J.K. Rowling mashup, sharing a park with Marvel Super Hero Island, which looks like a crappy regional Six Flags.

I disagree with this completely. Super Hero Island is a clever approach to a difficult franchise - Marvel is set largely in the real world, so coming up with a distinctive appearance for the land is incredibly daunting. Look at the Marvel Land Disney built in California, easily the worst new land in a Uni or Disney theme park in decades. Embarrassingly bland. MSHI is a hybrid of the comics and the TV cartoons they spawned, the most prominent media representation for the franchise when the land was launched. Its colorful, distinctive, and accurately represents its source material. Comparing it to a Six Flags park is utter nonsense.

 

[Jeff4272]

Can we get back to how bad Genie+ is? (kind of half kidding, kind of not kidding)


Is there any insider knowledge or published feedback of how hotel sales have been going for the fall? I am expecting October to be somewhat busy with the 50th kicking off, but what about the other normal busier weeks like Thanksgiving, Christmas etc.?

I guess I am really hoping this becomes a colossal failure and management has egg on their face from trying to take advantage of their most loyal customers

lol

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I disagree with this completely. Super Hero Island is a clever approach to a difficult franchise - Marvel is set largely in the real world, so coming up with a distinctive appearance for the land is incredibly daunting. Look at the Marvel Land Disney built in California, easily the worst new land in a Uni or Disney theme park in decades. Embarrassingly bland. MSHI is a hybrid of the comics and the TV cartoons they spawned, the most prominent media representation for the franchise when the land was launched. Its colorful, distinctive, and accurately represents its source material. Comparing it to a Six Flags park is utter nonsense.

It’s looking a bit dated. And they can’t really do much to improve it because of the contract.

 

[Casper Gutman]

It’s looking a bit dated. And they can’t really do much to improve it because of the contract.

Like Seuss, the big bright colors tend to fade and need constant maintenance. So in that respect it could use a little TLC.

 

[Ayla]

Tron is a cult classic for Gen X

so if you relate…you relate…

if you’re younger…the world offers more balls of string to chase

I'm Gen X and never heard of it before Disney announced the new ride.

 

[MaximumEd]

Haven’t read the whole thread, so I’m probably the 100th person to say this, but, if so, it needs repeating…….Lightning Lane is the absolute dumbest name they could have possibly come up with. It’s awful.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Yeah I am at that stage where a family friendly coaster is nice, but we dont want the Kiddie Park complaints about Disney starting again like in the 80's (I think thats when they were raging about Disney, I'm getting old so dont shoot me if I am wrong ). Coasters while good are not the end all be all for most Disney park goers. There are plenty of other rides that can have even greater capacity. If anything Disney needs to add more of the Mid Tier rides. Mr Toad, Snow White's scary adventure types. Rides with good theming that appeal to Disney fans. This is about MK I am speaking of.

I'm a bit confused.

1. "Family coasters" can indeed be "mid-tier," like Slinky Dog Dash. People argue whether 7DMT and BTM are E-tickets or not. And thus some would argue that they are also mid-tier.

2. Family coasters are not kiddie coasters. Goofy's Stunt coaster is a kiddie coaster. By definition, a 'Family Coaster' appeals to adults, too, i.e., the parents in the family.

3. The dark rides you mention as an antidote to a "kiddie" reputation are indeed "kiddie rides." Something like HM or PotC would be dark rides for the family, thus they would be "Family Dark Rides."

Disney is all about "the four quadrants," i.e., boys, girls, men, women.

 

[Lcur77]

Just going to miss it, damn. Maybe they do an early preview. Afraid of what the crowds are going to be in a couple weeks

 

[J4546]

Haven’t read the whole thread, so I’m probably the 100th person to say this, but, if so, it needs repeating…….Lightning Lane is the absolute dumbest name they could have possibly come up with. It’s awful.

yes, they really shouldve at least used the term wish or something related to genies....disney wish lane, magic wish lane, or better yet the make a wish lane and given MAW a percentage of revenue from the lanes

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Am I the only one that that thinks “lightning lane” was chosen As a Cars reference??

there’s few characters they over use/reference more than that…