Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[matt9112]

Yes. But they don’t do that intentionally to create those wait times.

And if an attraction is operating with a 60+ minute wait and not all “tracks” are being used, it is highly unlikely that is intentional.

But why does Disney get to dictate what wait is acceptable? Why is waiting an hour the norm?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

But why does Disney get to dictate what wait is acceptable? Why is waiting an hour the norm?

They have a set number of attractions per day that they've decided we should be happy with.

 

[doctornick]

Don't you think those would be the same people who already didn't use FP+, though?

I imagine anyone who used FP+ on a previous trip would at least investigate to see where FP+ went, which means they'd know about Genie+. There will certainly be some people who used FP+ and don't buy Genie+ because they don't want to pay, but I think the majority of people who used FP+ will also use Genie+.

I think you are way overestimating how much "regular" guests are invested and pay attention. Many such people could look for FP+, find reports or WDW's website saying they are no longer available and stop there.

Furthermore, FP+ being in advance helped out a lot of less tech savvy guests because they could book (maybe with a family member who could help) and then forget about them until they arrived at WDW. They could call Disney for help. Heck, I think there were even recommended "groups" of FP+ they could just pre-select and the system would assign them. Doing stuff on the fly the day off isn't going to happen for a lot of guests. Many people can't even handle mobile ordering food on the app and there's tons of non-Disney places with similar systems.

 

[doctornick]

Seriously? We have visited 2 or 3 times a year every year since FastPasses were introduced and NEVER heard anyone say this. Is this something that I’ve just missed all those years?

I heard it a number of times in the paper FP days. Or have people perplexed walking up to the machines asking the CMs how you buy a pass to use them. etc.

With FP+ they advertised the heck out of them, so I've got to think utilization was much higher and I didn't hear the complaints as much. If you were off site though you wouldn't get the same kind of reinforcement as the onsite folks.

 

[doctornick]

It's literally the old paper FastPass, just on your phone, which people BEGGED for. All anyone did was complain about FP+.

To be fair, some complained, others liked it. It's generally not the same people. But the complaints are always louder than the people who enjoy method.

I preferred FP+ myself (not only the pre-booking aspect, but not having to run around the collect FP as I was the group "runner"). I also liked the resort guest advantage so I never had any problems getting exactly what we wanted. But we'll adapt and use any system to the best advantage.

I don't begrudge anyone for preferring a particular system (like pre-planning/scheduling FP+) and being even more bothered by the changes for that reason.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think you are way overestimating how much "regular" guests are invested and pay attention. Many such people could look for FP+, find reports or WDW's website saying they are no longer available and stop there.

Furthermore, FP+ being in advance helped out a lot of less tech savvy guests because they could book (maybe with a family member who could help) and then forget about them until they arrived at WDW. They could call Disney for help. Heck, I think there were even recommended "groups" of FP+ they could just pre-select and the system would assign them. Doing stuff on the fly the day off isn't going to happen for a lot of guests. Many people can't even handle mobile ordering food on the app and there's tons of non-Disney places with similar systems.

I think you're dramatically underestimating how much Disney is going to be pushing this. I think anyone who knew about FP+ is going to know about this because Disney is going to be showing it to them non-stop.

If anything, even more people will know about this than FP+ because it's a revenue opportunity for Disney. I'd be very surprised if the vast majority of guests don't know what Genie+ is within a year. That doesn't mean they will all purchase it, but I think assuming a bunch of guests won't know what it is or how to use it is either a bit naive or a bit snobbish.

 

[VaderTron]

this is why advanced systems don’t tell everyone the same thing. Maybe it only recommends space to 1/4 people… or it rolls it out where it does group a, waits for changes, then decides if it tells group b etc.

this is the advantage of reaching all the consumers - not just s small group.

conversely its also why small audience tools like 3rd party apps can be more uniform without ruining it for themselves… smaller audience following the same advice means you don’t shift the needle ruining your own plan.

This is a Bob idea we're talking about, right? You think he's going to OK investing that many funds to build that smart of a system when he could just "make it do what's neccessary, that's it" and save that money for not paying to bring back more entertainment/atmosphere and not giving his barber who waxes his head to a chrome shine a year end bonus?

 

[doctornick]

I think you're dramatically underestimating how much Disney is going to be pushing this. I think anyone who knew about FP+ is going to know about this because Disney is going to be showing it to them non-stop.

If anything, even more people will know about this than FP+ because it's a revenue opportunity for Disney.

Oh, they'll definitely be pushing it. And many people will see "$15 a person a day", say they are spending enough on the trip, and ignore it.

I'm with @CaptainAmerica here. Utilization is going to be significantly less than FP+.

For starters you'll have APs and CMs who go more regularly - they won't never buy Genie+ but they are unlikely to do so on every time in especially if they go frequently. So, that's some percentage of the crowd (and they would typically be high FP+ utilizers). Next you have people who are just stretched too thin in terms of the cost - especially big families where that $15 per person adds up quick. Or they could afford it but don't think it is worth the costs. Maybe they buy it one or two days on their trip, but not every day. Then you have the non-tech savvy (moreso older folks) or people who don't want to look at a phone on vacation who will say phooey and just not want to partake because it would annoy them to use the app; that may also include some non-domestics who might not want to rely on wifi and would be afraid to purchase if it can't be used reliably. And you'll have some people who will purchase it - especially as an add on when booked for all their days - and then scantly use it or even not use it at all because they don't think about it. Those folks who technically be users but not really impact the availability or the lines. You'll have some people staying on property that will opt to use the Early Entry (and evening extra hours if in Deluxe/DVC) plus rope drop to get shorter lines rather than spend extra money.

I'm just skeptical of the people here who are saying "it's so cheap everyone will do it". A lot won't. Right now, I'd guess it will be closer to 50% of guests on a given day rather than something like 80%.

 

[UNCgolf]

Oh, they'll definitely be pushing it. And many people will see "$15 a person a day", say they are spending enough on the trip, and ignore it.

I'm with @CaptainAmerica here. Utilization is going to be significantly less than FP+.

For starters you'll have APs and CMs who go more regularly - they won't never buy Genie+ but they are unlikely to do so on every time in especially if they go frequently. So, that's some percentage of the crowd (and they would typically be high FP+ utilizers). Next you have people who are just stretched too thin in terms of the cost - especially big families where that $15 per person adds up quick. Or they could afford it but don't think it is worth the costs. Maybe they buy it one or two days on their trip, but not every day. Then you have the non-tech savvy (moreso older folks) or people who don't want to look at a phone on vacation who will say phooey and just not want to partake because it would annoy them to use the app; that may also include some non-domestics who might not want to rely on wifi and would be afraid to purchase if it can't be used reliably. And you'll have some people who will purchase it - especially as an add on when booked for all their days - and then scantly use it or even not use it at all because they don't think about it. Those folks who technically be users but not really impact the availability or the lines. You'll have some people staying on property that will opt to use the Early Entry (and evening extra hours if in Deluxe/DVC) plus rope drop to get shorter lines rather than spend extra money.

I'm just skeptical of the people here who are saying "it's so cheap everyone will do it". A lot won't. Right now, I'd guess it will be closer to 50% of guests on a given day rather than something like 80%.

I think utilization will vary depending on the time of year. At the really busy times, I would not be surprised to see it 75+% using it. When crowd levels aren't as high, it will probably drop.

On average, I'd expect it to be more than 50%, but I agree that it won't be 1:1 with FP+ users. There will be less for various reasons, including cost.

ETA: I also wonder if they will ever include it with rooms in lieu of an actual discount like they sometimes do with the Dining Plan. Stay at one of our hotels and get Genie+ included for your whole party *while paying rack rate! They'd make more money on the non-discounted room than they would selling Genie+.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

Boy if this is how you guys are acting for fastpasses, I can't wait to see how you respond when they announce paid dining reservations in Genie+. Oh you didn't figure that one out yet or see it coming? Yeah, paid dining reservations are coming. You like baseball? We'll it's on deck.

 

[jpinkc]

Oh, they'll definitely be pushing it. And many people will see "$15 a person a day", say they are spending enough on the trip, and ignore it.

I'm with @CaptainAmerica here. Utilization is going to be significantly less than FP+.

For starters you'll have APs and CMs who go more regularly - they won't never buy Genie+ but they are unlikely to do so on every time in especially if they go frequently. So, that's some percentage of the crowd (and they would typically be high FP+ utilizers). Next you have people who are just stretched too thin in terms of the cost - especially big families where that $15 per person adds up quick. Or they could afford it but don't think it is worth the costs. Maybe they buy it one or two days on their trip, but not every day. Then you have the non-tech savvy (moreso older folks) or people who don't want to look at a phone on vacation who will say phooey and just not want to partake because it would annoy them to use the app; that may also include some non-domestics who might not want to rely on wifi and would be afraid to purchase if it can't be used reliably. And you'll have some people who will purchase it - especially as an add on when booked for all their days - and then scantly use it or even not use it at all because they don't think about it. Those folks who technically be users but not really impact the availability or the lines. You'll have some people staying on property that will opt to use the Early Entry (and evening extra hours if in Deluxe/DVC) plus rope drop to get shorter lines rather than spend extra money.

I'm just skeptical of the people here who are saying "it's so cheap everyone will do it". A lot won't. Right now, I'd guess it will be closer to 50% of guests on a given day rather than something like 80%.

I think your wrong I think it will be MUCH Higher and wouldnt be surprised if its not 80% utilized from the start. The problem will be lack of attraction capacity. This IMHO could really blow back on Disney since they jam us in like sardines and dont have enough attraction capacity.

 

[mysto]

Can I ask what you do for a living? Your impression of business executives seems to be based on cartoon villainy.

I can see Business executives as cartoon villains.

Just not as cute.

 

[Patcheslee]

How much has the lack of FP effected travel agents? I know maybe 4 other people that went to Disney regularly Pre-Covid. They all used travel agents just because they didn't have to book dining or FP themselves. If Disney continues down the path of dropping the pre-planning aspect, travel agents might have less marketability.

 

[matt9112]

That remains to be seen, of course, but I don't think it's anywhere near that high. Of the 200, I think it's likely that at least 50 of them come and go without having any clue whatsoever what Genie+ even is.

Lol...dude its going to be pushed on them at every turn....this isn't a coveted ADR this is going to be something that disney markets as almost a necessity. Right next to buying your ticket...

 

[matt9112]

As I've said elsewhere, I've ridden Rise four times on two trips. It's not hard. Just keep off of the crappy free WiFi.

Did you poll everyone else ? Its a numbers game. Its irelevant if you got it 4 times theres x amount each day to ride. X is gone in seconds. Thats the factual truth.

 

[matt9112]

Can I ask what you do for a living? Your impression of business executives seems to be based on cartoon villainy.

So somebodys occupation has to do with there view of executives.... wierd.

 

[peter11435]

But why does Disney get to dictate what wait is acceptable? Why is waiting an hour the norm?

Who said an hour is acceptable. The wait time threshold for when they desire for all available capacity be utilized is significantly below an hour. I said 60+ because it was used in the post I was replying to.

 

[Waters Back Side]

To be fair, some complained, others liked it. It's generally not the same people. But the complaints are always louder than the people who enjoy method.

Some did both like me lol. I was adamantly against resort guests having to pay for FP's. I openly admit it. But my issue and I think a lot more peoples issues then many realize is that the assumption and rumor was that Disney Premier Access (pay per ride with standby pass) was coming to WDW. That would have been a downright disaster and priced many people out. Especially with the ride prices people were floating around. It would have crippled large families.

I still do not like having to pay nor booking rides 60 days in advance but after all said and done, as much of a lack of principle ot sounds like..its still only $15 per person. If it works out well and it's more bang for the buck I think it can grow on me. $15 dollars is not terrible and lines up with the expectation we knew disney would monetize FP anyway. I'd still go back to the old system in a second and book my 3 rides for everyday 6p days in advance over this.
But, i mean honestly..if Disney announced resort rates were going up $15 per occupant a day and Genie + was free for rides all day 1 at a time, would anyone have even known?


The IAS rides really are the big hit here for everyone. I knew if they were priced separately that depending on the price ultimately I'd purchase whichever ones we wanted to go on and Disney would lose out elsewhere from us...no sit down dining, no Disney springs shopping. Or simply not purchase some or most of those rides. And ultimately after this coming trip I'll preferably stay offsite from now on barring any push back from the wife and kids.

 

[peter11435]

They have a set number of attractions per day that they've decided we should be happy with.

Technically they have a set number of attractions per day that guests have decided they are happy with.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Technically they have a set number of attractions per day that guests have decided they are happy with.

No. They have a set number of attractions per day that guests will tolerate before satisfaction begins to drop. I don't think anyone would complain if they could do more in a day.