Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Dranth]

Milk it for what it's worth and run it into the ground, the new Disney motto.

That is a modern era publicly traded company motto, not just Disney, and I haven't seen much to make me think it is going to change anytime soon.

 

[monothingie]

That is a modern era publicly traded company motto, not just Disney, and I haven't seen much to make me think it is going to change anytime soon.

So it's okay because everyone else does it.

I'll use that next time I get a speeding ticket. "But officer everyone else was doing more than 100."

Seriously though, I don't think you'll find a company that has a worse track record than Disney with buying successful things and then utterly destroy them by running them head first into the ground.

 

[HauntedPirate]

So it's okay because everyone else does it.

I'll use that next time I get a speeding ticket. "But officer everyone else was doing more than 100."

Seriously though, I don't think you'll find a company that has a worse track record than Disney with buying successful things and then utterly destroy them by running them head first into the ground.

I, for one, am still waiting for that tweet from Bob Iger to tell us that SW:GE is open. He's just leaving money on the table by not opening it!!!

 

[lentesta]

I can also see why Disney is building so much now. In the past, a new ride opening had an indirect revenue source (increased ticket sales, merch, hotel stays, food ect.), but it's hard to prove something is the cause.

Now if Disney builds a banger of an attraction, they can basically guarantee a direct $15-$25 million a year revenue (probably for like 10-15 years), plus all the same indirect revenue.

Everything I've heard from WDI says that LL revenue forecasts are expected in new project proposals these days.

 

[monothingie]

Everything I've heard from WDI says that LL revenue forecasts are expected in new project proposals these days.

I wonder at what point do they make ( or go back to making) your park ticket only good for admission to the park and charge extra for each individual ride.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I wonder at what point do they make ( or go back to making) your park ticket only good for admission to the park and charge extra for each individual ride.

 

[monothingie]

It's the next logical step. They have reached their upper limit with park tickets and APs.

They can market it as being flexible to making sure guests pay only for what they use. Or if you prefer not to experience the parks alacart, there will be a premier option that will allow you access to experience all rides in the park once per day at an added extra charge.

Project Income Gone Extremely Rapidly (I.G.E.R)

 

[HauntedPirate]

It's the next logical step. They have reached their upper limit with park tickets and APs.

They can market it as being flexible to making sure guests pay only for what they use. Or if you prefer not to experience the parks alacart, there will be a premier option that will allow you access to experience all rides in the park once per day at an added extra charge.

Project Income Gone Extremely Rapidly (I.G.E.R)

Oh man, you had to go and say it out loud. Now we're all doomed.

I do believe this is coming eventually. Seriously. I just never wanted to say it publicly.

 

[Dranth]

So it's okay because everyone else does it.

I'll use that next time I get a speeding ticket. "But officer everyone else was doing more than 100."

Seriously though, I don't think you'll find a company that has a worse track record than Disney with buying successful things and then utterly destroy them by running them head first into the ground.

Who said it was okay? Stop reading into things and just engage with what people actually say.

Also, Disney is nowhere near alone with running things into the ground. Just in the creative space alone they are outstripped by companies like Microsoft, Sony and EA just to name a few of the big offenders.

Want to just talk studios? WB failed with DC and had to cancel the last movie in the Harry Potter spin off series, Uni is busy stripping the corpse of the Jurassic franchise after they already failed to revive the Monsters franchises. Sony is releasing bomb after bomb in the Spiderman EU to the point they are shutting down projects. Per Disney purchase, Fox should have been arrested for what they did to the Terminator series. Paramount managed to drive away Star Trek fans in amazing numbers.

NONE of that allows Disney off the hook but let's be real about the state of things across the entertainment landscape, they are all milking what they can while they can with little regard to the future. The one upside of all this is that anything can be brought back if done right.

Using Star Wars for instance, which I think is the prime example of running something into the ground, a couple of solid releases and most people will be back on board.

 

[Jrb1979]

Who said it was okay? Stop reading into things and just engage with what people actually say.

Also, Disney is nowhere near alone with running things into the ground. Just in the creative space alone they are outstripped by companies like Microsoft, Sony and EA just to name a few of the big offenders.

Want to just talk studios? WB failed with DC and had to cancel the last movie in the Harry Potter spin off series, Uni is busy stripping the corpse of the Jurassic franchise after they already failed to revive the Monsters franchises. Sony is releasing bomb after bomb in the Spiderman EU to the point they are shutting down projects. Per Disney purchase, Fox should have been arrested for what they did to the Terminator series. Paramount managed to drive away Star Trek fans in amazing numbers.

NONE of that allows Disney off the hook but let's be real about the state of things across the entertainment landscape, they are all milking what they can while they can with little regard to the future. The one upside of all this is that anything can be brought back if done right.

Using Star Wars for instance, which I think is the prime example of running something into the ground, a couple of solid releases and most people will be back on board.

Sure when you compare Disney to those companies. But when you compare them to the other Amusement/Theme park companies, not all are running their parks into the ground.

Herschend, and the new Six Flags aren't trying to run their parks into the ground or trying to nickel and dime their guests to make up for lost revenue

 

[Purduevian]

Not everything new has to be an D/E-Ticket.

There's a powerful lesson that will likely be learned if the only motivation for developing new attractions is to rake in LL revenue.

This is true... but MK and EPCOT both need more D/Es. DHS needs more A-Cs, and AK just need more.

 

[HauntedPirate]

This is true... but MK and EPCOT both need more D/Es.

MK, in particular, needs non-headliners to keep people busy.

 

[mattpeto]

Oh man, you had to go and say it out loud. Now we're all doomed.

I do believe this is coming eventually. Seriously. I just never wanted to say it publicly.

In fact, I speculate in a billion years, Magic Kingdom won't even be there anymore.

 

[lentesta]

This is true... but MK and EPCOT both need more D/Es. DHS needs more A-Cs, and AK just need more.

This is why you'd never make it at McKinsey, @Purduevian.

Your high-growth, hot product, Lightning Lane, depends entirely on long wait times. Why would you add A-C capacity, which doesn't drive Lightning Lane revenue AND which would lower average wait times?

Put another way: why cure a disease when chronic care is a better business model?

THINK OF THE SHAREHOLDERS MAN! /s

 

[HauntedPirate]

In fact, I speculate in a billion years, Magic Kingdom won't even be there anymore.

 

[Dranth]

Sure when you compare Disney to those companies. But when you compare them to the other Amusement/Theme park companies, not all are running their parks into the ground.

Herschend, and the new Six Flags aren't trying to run their parks into the ground or trying to nickel and dime their guests to make up for lost revenue

What? Six Flags, who now owns Cedar, has a long and storied history of running parks into the ground. Cedar Fair, pre merger, had bad runs. Busch Gardens and SeaWorld haven't exactly been flying high of late and even Hershey had a pretty bad go of things for awhile. Not even Universal is off the hook as they drove US Florida right into the dirt.

Disney isn't even remotely close to running their parks into the ground. Not liking changes and what they charge is not the same as the place turning into rundown nightmare no one wants to visit.

 

[LSLS]

What? Six Flags, who now owns Cedar, has a long and storied history of running parks into the ground. Cedar Fair, pre merger, had bad runs. Busch Gardens and SeaWorld haven't exactly been flying high of late and even Hershey had a pretty bad go of things for awhile. Not even Universal is off the hook as they drove US Florida right into the dirt.

Disney isn't even remotely close to running their parks into the ground. Not liking changes and what they charge is not the same as the place turning into rundown nightmare no one wants to visit.

Just pointing out, Six Flags doesn't own Cedar. Cedar got 51% of the control, they just kept the Six Flags name.

 

[JD80]

This is why you'd never make it at McKinsey, @Purduevian.

Your high-growth, hot product, Lightning Lane, depends entirely on long wait times. Why would you add A-C capacity, which doesn't drive Lightning Lane revenue AND which would lower average wait times?

Put another way: why cure a disease when chronic care is a better business model?

THINK OF THE SHAREHOLDERS MAN! /s

Excuse me sir, but have you not seen my latest deck on LLKP (lightning lane kid pass) where families can take advantage of this activation and have their kids ride all of Mickeys favorite flat rides once by skipping the line for daily flex rate of $10 to $50.

We need inventory to hit max throughput.

 

[Jrb1979]

What? Six Flags, who now owns Cedar, has a long and storied history of running parks into the ground. Cedar Fair, pre merger, had bad runs. Busch Gardens and SeaWorld haven't exactly been flying high of late and even Hershey had a pretty bad go of things for awhile. Not even Universal is off the hook as they drove US Florida right into the dirt.

Disney isn't even remotely close to running their parks into the ground. Not liking changes and what they charge is not the same as the place turning into rundown nightmare no one wants to visit.

First Six Flags doesn't own Cedar Fair, they are just using the name as it's more well known.

I put Universal right with Disney. In terms of running the parks into the ground, I'm not talking about investments and new attachments. I'm talking about how they squeeze every last penny out the parks now. All the nickel and diming and added upcharges.

My response was that Herschend which owns Dollywood, the Six Flags parks and Hershey have for the most part not tried to squeeze every last penny from guests. Yes they have paid Skip the line passes but they are limited so most guests don't have to pay extra to ride things like at Disney and Universal. Their extra events like Halloween and Christmas are included with season passes.

I know Disney and Universal aren't the same as they are vacation parks but they do show you can have successful parks without all the nickel and diming

 

[Purduevian]

MK, in particular, needs non-headliners to keep people busy.

I mean looking at average wait times in 2024 (via thrill data)
MK average wait time: 25 minutes
EPCOT average wait time: 31 minutes
DHS average wait time: 38 minutes
AK average wait time: 25 minutes

MK already has near constant under 15 min attractions in the Tiki Room, Country Bears, Hall of presidents, Philharmagic, and COP

Additionally, MK usually has low waits on Aladdin, Carousel, Mermaid, Dumbo, Barnstormer, tea cups, and people mover.

Of the current highest waits in Disney right now, the top 5 are all NOT MK (Remy, ROTR, FOP, SDD, and RNRC)
MK holds #6 (Tron), #8 (7D), #9 (Pan)