Kevin Yee- Airing of Grievances

Alektronic

Well-Known Member
To me, it is just laziness. It was just a access panel for the Baby Bear and they did some welding, and left the access panel to cool off, then forgot all about it. Then they figured since it is in the backward section of the ride, nobody would notice it.

The moldy and missing tiles are from a leaky A/C system and it has been that way for a long while. Just lucky the worklights didn't come on and you can see what horrible condition the ride is actually in. But that goes for a lot of rides especially the ones that use low lighting levels to hide a lot things.
 

disney fan 13

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I'm sure it was. KingEric rode this again because he mentioned wanting to snap pictures of the moldy conditions in the ride. I didn't expect to see this though. The original post is here-
http://micechat.com/forums/walt-disney-world-resort/176596-moldy-malestrom-4.html#post1056883768

That's not even to mention the horribly moldy parts of the ride, looks like the show building might have some roof leakage problems or something. It's even starting to damage the beautiful mural at the load area. The three headed troll also apparently doesn't move anymore besides a slight jerking of the head. The entire ride looks like a complete filthy mess, just shameful.

KingEric mentioned that piece of scenery was burned away. Was that the case?

That was disgusting.
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
I realize that black light hides a lot, but the missing rock panel with the bear and the ceiling water damage in the load area are really bad.

It's astonishing when you realize that not only have the parks' new offerings diminished, but management can't even keep up the current attractions.

Think how much money needs to be invested to bring all the parks up to a standard worthy of the Disney name.

Oh well. At least I can reserve my ride on the moldy, decrepit Maelstrom six months in advance!
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
We were last at EPCOT back in December of last year and the ceiling tiles looked disgusting like that in queue then along with the matted, dusty polar bears.

One of my wife's friends just returned from WDW and she and her husband are big fans. She then rattled off what seemed to be an endless list of major problems that she saw and that they weren't nitpicking, so to speak, trying to find any. She said that the Ursula AA was spraying out hydraulic fluid, the Ariel audio-animatronic that moves us and down was stuck, and several AA's were simply out of commission in the brand new Little Mermaid ride. She was left unimpressed by the Be Our Guest dining and saw trash all over the place.
 

Alektronic

Well-Known Member
We were last at EPCOT back in December of last year and the ceiling tiles looked disgusting like that in queue then along with the matted, dusty polar bears.

One of my wife's friends just returned from WDW and she and her husband are big fans. She then rattled off what seemed to be an endless list of major problems that she saw and that they weren't nitpicking, so to speak, trying to find any. She said that the Ursula AA was spraying out hydraulic fluid, the Ariel audio-animatronic that moves us and down was stuck, and several AA's were simply out of commission in the brand new Little Mermaid ride. She was left unimpressed by the Be Our Guest dining and saw trash all over the place.

Doesn't surprise me. In fact, the maintenance teams at MK are shrinking, they used to have 3 Attractions maintenance depts taking care of the MK. Now they merged them into 2 different depts basically draw a line from Pirates to Space Mountain, everything south of there is taken care of by one dept and everything north of it will be taken care by another dept. So that means that the same dept that has been taking care of Splash Mountain will be taking care of the new Fantasyland and the new Mermaid ride. And I don't have to tell you which direction that is heading.
 

njDizFan

Well-Known Member
You should be very careful about inventing things that someone never said. I never talked anything about "elitist scum". That's you being melodramatic and projecting things that aren't there. Not a good habit to have.

The problem with the Ivy League MBAs is just as I put it (please read my comment again so you know what I actually said, not what you imagined I said)...these guys are taught by largely the same professors...who all belong to the same little network...and they all teach these guys the same things. Companies snatch these young Ivy League MBAs up after graduation because it's prestigious for them to announce to shareholders that they've hired "the cream of the crop!". But, are they really all that great?

It depends on what your goals are for your company. The MBAs churned out by Harvard in particular arrive at a company and decide to make a name for themselves by cutting expenses so they can boast "record profits' on their watches...and then they leave in a few years to do the same thing at another company. They get out of town before the consequences of all those cuts hit. In a lot of ways, the MBAs are like locusts that swoop in...make a lot of noise for a spell...and then leave things in ruins when they fly off to another pasture.

Graduates of state schools and colleges not in the Ivy League are not like this. For one thing, these people aren't being courted by as many companies to come work there just because of the name on their diploma...these guys know they actually have to do a good job to keep their positions and they also aren't taught they should leave one job for another one after a few years. The state school graduates plan on holding a steady job at one place for a career...not hopping from one office to another in different cities as much as possible to always be the new star in the constellation.

Between my husband and myself, we have a combined 60 years in business. I've seen this same pattern play out over and over again and will ALWAYS hire the state school graduate over the Ivy League MBA any day.
I didn't realy want to derail a real important thread with going back and forth on a non-sequitor. But just a few quick notes. If the words like "scum" was not a an apt description of what type of behavior these MBAs you are calling out then I should use your words, like "locusts". It's just that you are using such a broad generalization of behavior when descibing individuals. So are all Ivy league educated MBAs learn to be like locusts? Trying to cut costs just to gain an edge for future employment. Of course not, that would be a straw man arguement. so maybe it's just Harvard alums? Yale, NYU, Wharton(all top MBA schools) etc they are okay? Well definately a good old Penn State guy/gal would assuradely be the right person for the job because they care about the company they work for not their next job placement. /Sarcasm
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Wow....

That post is outrageous. There can't really be any excuse for this, can there? Can someone come in here and defend TDO right now, please. I would love to see that.

Obviously the missing panel fell off right before the boat with the photographer arrived so Disney didn't have a chance to shut down the ride and fix it. This is just like how light bulb burn out right before someone takes a picture of them. ;)
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Doesn't surprise me. In fact, the maintenance teams at MK are shrinking, they used to have 3 Attractions maintenance depts taking care of the MK. Now they merged them into 2 different depts basically draw a line from Pirates to Space Mountain, everything south of there is taken care of by one dept and everything north of it will be taken care by another dept. So that means that the same dept that has been taking care of Splash Mountain will be taking care of the new Fantasyland and the new Mermaid ride. And I don't have to tell you which direction that is heading.
Just for some added context. How were the maintaince departments organized back in the 70's through early 90's?
 

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
Obviously the missing panel fell off right before the boat with the photographer arrived so Disney didn't have a chance to shut down the ride and fix it. This is just like how light bulb burn out right before someone takes a picture of them. ;)

This makes more sense than Disney/cast members riding through, seeing this mess, and saying "yep, show quality. Ready to go!" and actually allowing people on the ride. I bet it smells in there, too.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
Taken by KingEric:

norway.jpg

Oh. My. God.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
I think we should print out King Eric's pictures and send them to TDO and ask them how they justify raising ticket prices while letting attractions go to hell like this. Darn, and I really like Maelstrom!
 

whylightbulb

Well-Known Member
The issue, as many have pointed out already, is short-term thinking vs. long-term. Instead of looking at an investment directly and asking how much it specifially will return, one should be asking how the investment will strengthen the overall value of the brand and the property. This apparantly is how companies like Google and Apple (and Disney many years ago) have succeeded. They didn't look at each individual investment in terms of specific ROI so much as they looked at them as a means to strengthen the value of the brand. I'm not a business expert so I'm relying on information I've read from books such as "A Passion for Excellence" and simple common sense when it comes to Apple and Google. The theme park business however I do know!

For example the Test Track budget went though its normal budget cuts and we ended up with a stripped down rehab that only barely makes the grade. Sure there is some eye candy and the ride will be enjoyable for some and it is arguably better than the orginal Test Track (which isn't saying much at all in my opinion). What if instead, for once in the past 15 years, WDW decided to give us a $250 million blockbuster? In comparison to today's Test Track what would be the guest response? What would be the long-term result? Would more guests' word-of-mouth be something like, "wow!!! You really need to go to Epcot and check out the new Test Track..I mean I really felt like I was in another world...It was AMAZING!!??" That as opposed to an attraction that will be popular for a few years rather than a classic such as Pirates or Mansion that will be enjoyed by million for years to come.

My point is the person that brought up the argument regarding guest perception is spot on. He pointed out that while a guest may not be able to put his or her finger on the reason they are not 100% satisfied with an experience they still know that the experience could have been better. That's the difference between a low-budget upgrade and a "Cars Land" spectacular. Walking through Radiator Springs and being surrounded by high quality scenery invokes a positive emotion and thereby strengthens the possiblity that more guests will return and spend more money. This should be common sense but they don't teach that in business school.

Where are the long-term thinkers in the Disney company? Sure you can save $100 million in the short-term by giving the public a watered down version of Fantasyland but the price will be customers that leave indifferent, not excited or inspired. Indifferent customers don't complain but they don't recommend that experience voluntarily either. They also don't go out of their way to come back. WDW is in the business of emotional experiences whether they want to admit it or not. There are many ways to illicit that emotion and most of the methods require spending money on the right things. How about going back to spending on the core business again?

Universal, despite all the wonderful things happening now, is not at all immune from this poisonous thinking. Trust me when I say Creative Studios is a mess! If it weren't for J.K. and Warner Brothers Potter phase one would have ended up quite mediocre and Potter Phase two would possibly be worse. The only reason Phase two will be freakin AMAZING is solely because of J.K. and WB in spite of UC. Here's one example for you: recently all the video servers and associated hardware had been designed and ordered and equipment delivered for the Hogwarts Express. Millions of dollars in equipment and design labor. Before all this UC management was asked if they wanted the show critical video to be 30 frames per second or 60 frames per second. To save money they of course went with the 30 frames against the strong recommendations from designers. The difference in quality is huge! When J.K. found out about it she insisted they go to the 60. So now hundreds of thousands more will be spent to redesign and reorder and even more to upgrade equipment. That's the kind of quality control going on there...something that WDW does not have and something that will put Universal on top in terms of immersive experiences in Orlando. Yes they'll go over budget but it will pay off for them and their brand will strengthen. Now let's compare Per Capita spending and attendance increase percentages of the two companies. Hello Disney is anyone there?
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Ive talked with some friends and managers, down to front line managers, are pushing numbers over quality. Increased numbers of guests and increased sales.

This is a corporate culture/mindset problem that is trickling down to the front line cast. Simply fixing the Animatronics and repainting will not fix a systemic problem that has infected the corporation; it would be a simple band-aid on a giant problem.

Two ways to fix it:

One - Change of Management with guest service & guest experience as a priority.
Two - Dont go. When the numbers drop enough, they'll have to make changes.

By going into the parks and documenting things as above, you're also increasing Disney's bottom line and reinforcing their attitude of "We dont need to fix it, they'll come anyways"
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Coming soon...;)

IMO, there are too many managers who lack front line experience managing the parks or experienceing anything from a guest perspective.

Let Bob Iger book a vacation for July or his managers and stay with their family under an alias and see how these parks are really run. Take notes. Experience this product and entertainment that his company is giving. Talk with other guests, all without the pretext of having a billion people at his beck and call, making sure things are perfect just for when the General inspects the troops and see EXACTLY what goes on in the parks.

Heads would roll.


... and will someone take down that creepy portrait of Phil Holmes!?!?!?!?!?
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
The issue, as many have pointed out already, is short-term thinking vs. long-term. Instead of looking at an investment directly and asking how much it specifially will return, one should be asking how the investment will strengthen the overall value of the brand and the property. This apparantly is how companies like Google and Apple (and Disney many years ago) have succeeded. They didn't look at each individual investment in terms of specific ROI so much as they looked at them as a means to strengthen the value of the brand. I'm not a business expert so I'm relying on information I've read from books such as "A Passion for Excellence" and simple common sense when it comes to Apple and Google. The theme park business however I do know!

For example the Test Track budget went though its normal budget cuts and we ended up with a stripped down rehab that only barely makes the grade. Sure there is some eye candy and the ride will be enjoyable for some and it is arguably better than the orginal Test Track (which isn't saying much at all in my opinion). What if instead, for once in the past 15 years, WDW decided to give us a $250 million blockbuster? In comparison to today's Test Track what would be the guest response? What would be the long-term result? Would more guests' word-of-mouth be something like, "wow!!! You really need to go to Epcot and check out the new Test Track..I mean I really felt like I was in another world...It was AMAZING!!??" That as opposed to an attraction that will be popular for a few years rather than a classic such as Pirates or Mansion that will be enjoyed by million for years to come.

My point is the person that brought up the argument regarding guest perception is spot on. He pointed out that while a guest may not be able to put his or her finger on the reason they are not 100% satisfied with an experience they still know that the experience could have been better. That's the difference between a low-budget upgrade and a "Cars Land" spectacular. Walking through Radiator Springs and being surrounded by high quality scenery invokes a positive emotion and thereby strengthens the possiblity that more guests will return and spend more money. This should be common sense but they don't teach that in business school.

Where are the long-term thinkers in the Disney company? Sure you can save $100 million in the short-term by giving the public a watered down version of Fantasyland but the price will be customers that leave indifferent, not excited or inspired. Indifferent customers don't complain but they don't recommend that experience voluntarily either. They also don't go out of their way to come back. WDW is in the business of emotional experiences whether they want to admit it or not. There are many ways to illicit that emotion and most of the methods require spending money on the right things. How about going back to spending on the core business again?

Universal, despite all the wonderful things happening now, is not at all immune from this poisonous thinking. Trust me when I say Creative Studios is a mess! If it weren't for J.K. and Warner Brothers Potter phase one would have ended up quite mediocre and Potter Phase two would possibly be worse. The only reason Phase two will be freakin AMAZING is solely because of J.K. and WB in spite of UC. Here's one example for you: recently all the video servers and associated hardware had been designed and ordered and equipment delivered for the Hogwarts Express. Millions of dollars in equipment and design labor. Before all this UC management was asked if they wanted the show critical video to be 30 frames per second or 60 frames per second. To save money they of course went with the 30 frames against the strong recommendations from designers. The difference in quality is huge! When J.K. found out about it she insisted they go to the 60. So now hundreds of thousands more will be spent to redesign and reorder and even more to upgrade equipment. That's the kind of quality control going on there...something that WDW does not have and something that will put Universal on top in terms of immersive experiences in Orlando. Yes they'll go over budget but it will pay off for them and their brand will strengthen. Now let's compare Per Capita spending and attendance increase percentages of the two companies. Hello Disney is anyone there?

Kudos to J.K. for keeping tight control of her creation and its offshoots. She's doing what Walt used to do with his entire company. But that was the thing with Walt...he was the creative side, while his brother Roy was the economic side, of the Walt Disney Company (or Walt Disney Productions, as I think it used to be called in those days). The current WDC is made up of all Roys and no Walts, it seems to me. I used to hope that John Lasseter would somehow fill the giant void left by Walt's death...but it hasn't worked out that way, at least not to the extent I had hoped. Or maybe I'm giving Lasseter too much credit?

As for the new Fantasyland, I was very let down. I knew in advance what the attractions and such were to be, because I treated myself to some spoilers, but still I hoped it would at least be equal to Hogsmeade...no such luck. Visiting New Fantasyland, and then taking a trip to Universal, really opened my eyes. The pixie dust has faded away, and I see a WDC that won't spend the cash to maintain its Magic Kingdom, much less "plus" it in any meaningful way.

I wonder...is the reason for the appalling stinginess of TDO due to the fact that it's still thinking of selling the parks? That's how it often goes when a company is priming one of its properties for sale...it cuts and cuts to make the item more attractive and affordable for a buyer...could this be what's going on?
 

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