Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

[GimpYancIent]

My money's on we get an AA of her in place of Sam

Ok it would be easier on the eyes at least.

 

[rreading]

Ok it would be easier on the eyes at least.

Unfortunately, it's unlikely to be very funny.

 

[Brer Oswald]

WDW's Trader Sam was a caricature of a SE Asian Man, as noted by his exaggerated features that were based on stereotypes that were and are harmful.

Alberta Falls is a mixed race woman who's features were designed in a natural manner, without certain body elements exaggerated for comedic effect and without and stereotypical practices intended for comedy.

What features? He just looks like a cartoonish human. Much like, idk, Maui from Moana.

I get the shrunken heads but being an issue. I can understand his...outfit. But if the complaint is “he looks like a cartoon” I don’t quite see what the issue is. It’s nothing more ridiculous than the caricature humans in Pirates.

Please enlighten me, I must be missing something.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

That you easily read him as a cartoonish blur of all non-white "primitives" in the context of the ride really highlights the whole issue with the figure.

I'm disturbed and offended that you associate all "primitives" with being non-white.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I'm disturbed and offended that you associate all "primitives" with being non-white.

 

[wdwmagic]

Can we take some of the personal viewpoints to private messaging, thanks. This thread is for actual attraction discussions, and not individual views on how characters are depicted.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Look at the Rhino scene.

The rhino and the man are cartoon exaggerations of real things. That's just the artstyle they went for the Florida attraction.

Not too different from the humans and pirates. None of these look like real humans.

I think the complaint that "sam" looked like a cartoon is an off base complaint because it was a consistent artstyle for the humans in the attraction. There are other issues with the whole scene, but not the general art style.

 

[LittleBuford]

Look at the Rhino scene.
View attachment 546149
The rhino and the man are cartoon exaggerations of real things. That's just the artstyle they went for the Florida attraction.

View attachment 546150

Not too different from the humans and pirates. None of these look like real humans.

I think the complaint that "sam" looked like a cartoon is an off base complaint because it was a consistent artstyle for the humans in the attraction. There are other issues with the whole scene, but not the general art style.

I think we’re supposed to stop discussing this, but to clarify, the issue (as I understand it anyway) isn’t that he looks cartoonish. Disneyland’s Sam is far less caricatural, but he’s no less problematic.

 

[LittleBuford]

To get back on topic, I’m excited to see what they install in Sam’s place.

Have the men holding spears been removed yet?

 

[Brer Oswald]

I think we’re supposed to stop discussing this, but to clarify, the issue (as I understand it anyway) isn’t that he looks cartoonish. Disneyland’s Sam is far less caricatural, but he’s no less problematic.

The issue is the context of which the character is presented in. How he's a head hunter. How they play the whole shrunken head bit off as a joke. That I understand, and I think it warrants his removal.

But the whole bit about the cartoonish design and "exaggerated features" I don't understand. The face mould just looks like a human in that particular 60s WDI human artstyle. It isn't like the indigenous caricatures that intentionally play up certain features in comparison the the other humans. For instance, in JC, Pirates, and HM, all of the humans have big noses, regardless of ethnicity.

 

[FigmentsFangirl]

I actually wonder now what will go int he Skippers spiel when the natives with spears are supposed to pop up ? Is it going to be a like a "duck duck goose" Thing or what ?

What would be neat is a meet and greet with Alberta herself, though I do not know if that is possible

 

[Sharon&Susan]

I actually wonder now what will go int he Skippers spiel when the natives with spears are supposed to pop up ? Is it going to be a like a "duck duck goose" Thing or what ?

What would be neat is a meet and greet with Alberta herself, though I do not know if that is possible

Do you mean before or after the refurb is finished? Right now they'll probably continue to use the same spiel as always and once it's done the natives won't even be there.

 

[EPICOT]

It’s not only “headhunters” who are being made fun of. Trader Sam is said to be South American and depicted in what appears to be tribal clothing. Many guests visiting Disney parks originate or are descended from the places were Trader Sam is supposedly from and are related to the cultures he stereotypically represents. Headhunting is barbaric, but it’s also ceremonial and carries cultural significance and meaning.

The gag is (and has always been), “Look how funny those people who are different from us are!” This is meanspirited humor that only works when everyone is in on the joke and disconnected from the cultural realities being made fun of (see also José the Macaw and the Indians in Peter Pan). Disneyland has a long and complicated relationship to minority and foreign cultures, but they’re trying to do better.

I’ve mentioned in earlier in this thread, but have you ever invited people over to your home for dinner and thought—“hmm, maybe we should make a few small changes to make our guests more comfortable?“ That’s what Disney is doing with these changes.

Don’t worry, you’re still welcome and there’s a lot for you to enjoy!

Well now you are implying that we need to respect headhunting because its "ceremonial." I don't care what value it carries; it is barbaric. Curious that you are borderline defending it.

All humor about human interactions is at some level about poking fun at the differences between individuals or societies. You would have to cancel this entire category of jokes under your standard. I don't see any problem with laughing at our differences. The disconnect between cultures is another treasure trove of comedy and does not need to involve any level of dehumanizing, which Trader Sam does not do.


Your analogy does not hold up in this situation. In home life, of course I can and will temporarily make small changes for guests of different cultures. The Jungle Cruise is open to the public, so you cannot use an analogy about private life. Here is a more analogous situation:

There is a popular restaurant in a small town that serves only one dish, say bacon mac and cheese. Word spreads in the region and more outsiders begin visiting. Eventually, those of a different culture try the restaurant. Some do not like the meat, others the gluten, others the dairy, etc. The restaurant must then chose: do they alter/cancel the dish that made them popular or offer an alternative? It's clear Disney is choosing the former. (Please do remember that there is no such thing as a perfect analogy, so there are certainly some things that don't line up exactly. I do think the crucial missing piece of your analogy was the public vs. private distinction.)


You say I am welcome in this new Disney, but am I really? You have just stated that I am "meanspirited" if I think its OK to laugh about the differences between cultures. I'm sure the Disney Diversity Czar and Council would find some much harsher words than that for me.

 

[EPICOT]

You do realize that in the last 3 days, in this thread alone, we've had "definitive" statements that WDW's Trader Sam is Argentinian, Ecuadorian, Peruvian and now Southeast Asian, right?

Maybe ... just maybe ... his ethnicity or country of origin is nebulous?

Trader Sam is definitely [insert nationality where my finger lands on the globe]!

 

[Disone]

Trader Sam is definitely [insert nationality where my finger lands on the globe]!

Sorry no! The earth is flat!

 

[champdisney]

Because the corniness of the animatronics is what makes them, and the ride, charming. Couple that with the skippers' gags and you've got yourself a winning attraction. I hope they never get rid of it!

I’m just not all that entertained by it these days.

For clarity, I’m not suggesting that Disney should completely axe the Jungle Cruise but rather relocate it to DAK where they can bring new things to the table. DAK is all about authenticity and I believe if Disney is this serious about not offending anybody of any race, then why not build a bigger and grander one at a park where the animals, people, cultures and life in general are celebrated?

There can be animatronic animals incorporated while mixing in some live ones. Accurate depictions of people from different places. And riverboats that don’t sink, lol. To me, an overall better version of the Jungle Cruise. Just a fun blue sky idea that I’ve thought about for many years now. No one is ready for such a thing. I get that we tend to hold on to the classics with the inclusion of Disney not being all that bold to make such a move. But hey, one can dream.

As I previously said, it’s not necessarily the Jungle Cruise that needs some changes, it’s Adventureland.

 

[Horizons1]

Look at the Rhino scene.
View attachment 546149
The rhino and the man are cartoon exaggerations of real things. That's just the artstyle they went for the Florida attraction.

I hope they change that rhino to a black rhino so the ride is more inclusive with rhinos of all cultures to better represent the diversity of rhinos everywhere.

 

[JoeCamel]

I’m just not all that entertained by it these days.

For clarity, I’m not suggesting that Disney should completely axe the Jungle Cruise but rather relocate it to DAK where they can bring new things to the table. DAK is all about authenticity and I believe if Disney is this serious about not offending anybody of any race, then why not build a bigger and grander one at a park where the animals, people, cultures and life in general are celebrated?

There can be animatronic animals incorporated while mixing in some live ones. Accurate depictions of people from different places. And riverboats that don’t sink, lol. To me, an overall better version of the Jungle Cruise. Just a fun blue sky idea that I’ve thought about for many years now. No one is ready for such a thing. I get that we tend to hold on to the classics with the inclusion of Disney not being all that bold to make such a move. But hey, one can dream.

As I previously said, it’s not necessarily the Jungle Cruise that needs some changes, it’s Adventureland.

When has Disney ever moved a ride because it fits better there. Or plussed one after moving it?

 

[LittleBuford]

DAK is all about authenticity and I believe if Disney is this serious about not offending anybody of any race, then why not build a bigger and grander one at a park where the animals, people, cultures and life in general are celebrated?

The issue isn't authenticity, though. Even the modified version of the ride is going to be silly and farfetched—that's what makes the Jungle Cruise so much fun to begin with. A serious version rebuilt in Animal Kingdom would be a different experience altogether.

 

[owlsandcoffee]

When has Disney ever moved a ride because it fits better there. Or plussed one after moving it?

They haven't obviously. But the person you're replying to is talking blue sky!