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Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

MisterPenguin

Fully Pfizered!
Premium Member
I have a family member whose nickname is Tootsie, Toots for short. It was a very common and not necessarily derogatory term - but I suspect that today Tootsie Roll and Tootsie Pop might have to change their name. But 50 years ago it really depended upon who was saying it. Just as "Babe" can be endearing - or insulting.
Indeed.

It could be used as a term of endearment for a romantic partner as much as: babe, baby, sweetheart, sweetie. baby, dear, honey, baby, snookums, baby.

If you think about each of those words by themselves... kinda icky to infantilize or comesticize (treat them as edible) someone you like.

The most famous use of 'toots' was this song popularized by Al Jolson (already, we're in the realm of old timey = cringey if we're talking about Al Blackface Jolson)...


And any of those terms of endearment between a romantic couple can be used to be derogatory toward a woman whom one is not a consensual romantic partner since it implies she should be available to be such without her consent. Thus, it's also used to devalue the women due to her gender by pointing it out and sexualizing or infantilizing her (or both at the same time).

The etymology of 'toots' for a woman is unknown.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Of course, in this case, the Toots was referring to a man. It also sounds like it was an inside joke for the cast and not anything in the actual movie.

Also, when I hear Toots, I think of Toots Hibbert/Toots and the Maytals!
Yes, kind of surprised we're having a debate about whether Jack Whitehall was being sexist toward Dwayne The Rock Johnson in that tweet.

Seems a little in bad faith considering no-one is actually offended by it.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Why does she get who decides to use it?
I think you mean why does she get to decide who uses it(?)
Never said she did. The argument I if you re-read was who gets to decide or presume if anyone is to be offended or not. No claim on anyone having to do anything about it.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
She was offended by Jack Whitehall's Twitter post? I guess I am surprised but stand corrected if that was the case.

I would just be wary of blanket statements when you say no one is be offended by something. I don't bother measuring a level of offense, but I know I don't use it as a term of endearment often because she is not a fan of the word being used that way and I imagine it is not appropriate to many people. (shrug)

By the way, the most agreed upon etymology by English majors in circles I speak with is the combination of Toot Sweet, which means quick and easy. This is thought to be why eventually it became a euphemism combined set of words for women to be quick and easy(and I think we can agree that would be derogatory) where as with the candy Tootsie Roll it is a play on words and simple means quick and easy to snack on. With anything, I am a believer in the intent, but as we are noticing, apparently sensitivity in moderation is good.
 
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Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
I would just be weary of blanket statements. I don't bother measuring a level of offense, but I know I don't use it as a term of endearment often because she is not a fan of the word being used that way and I imagine it is not appropriate to many people. (shrug)

By the way, the most agreed upon etymology by English majors in circles I speak with is the combination of Toot Sweet, which means quick and easy. This is thought to be why eventually it became a euphemism combined set of words for women where as with the candy Tootsie Roll it is a play on words and simple means quick and easy to snack on.
I'm not saying no-one is offended by the term "toots" and would certainly never call someone "toots" unless it was some kind of inside joke/term of endearment, but that's the point here: it just reads like an affectionate inside joke/nickname between co-workers. I honestly find it a little ambiguous as to what usage (or pronunciation) of toots is intended. So did anyone really read that Tweet and get offended?

 
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LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I'm not saying no-one is offended by the term "toots" and would certainly never call someone "toots" unless it was some kind of inside joke, but that's the point here: it just reads like an affectionate inside joke/nickname between co-workers. I honestly find it a little ambiguous as to what usage (or pronunciation) of toots is intended. So did anyone really read that Tweet and get offended?

This sheds some light on the matter:


Like you, I suspect the anger about this (such as it is) is motivated above all by annoyance with the changes made to the attraction.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I'm not saying no-one is offended by the term "toots" and would certainly never call someone "toots" unless it was some kind of inside joke, but that's the point here: it just reads like an affectionate inside joke/nickname between co-workers. I honestly find it a little ambiguous as to what usage (or pronunciation) of toots is intended. So did anyone really read that Tweet and get offended?


He also used that in the same way for the tour in front of guests in the mic prank video they did. I am agreeing with intent being important, but you did say that no one was offended by it. I don't think it is a shock for someone to be displeased with such a word being used as it is not unusual for it to be demeaning, as many on here have stated that we are familiar with this word being used and somewhat commonly a charged word. It would seem careless to say that no one is offended by that word.

And you did say that no one is offended by it.
"considering no-one is actually offended by it."

It is in your earlier quote. Then you said you stand corrected for it, but now you are saying you never said that no one is offended by the term. I don't think what Jack is doing is wrong because I believe in intent matters with that sort of thing, but I can see why in this world it is probably not wise to put an inside joke on Twitter when you are publicly promoting something.

The affectionate intentions of a nickname does not change the bad idea it is to publicly put a word known like that out there.

As stated earlier, I made it as a joke, because personally I am not offended. I grew up on too many bugs bunny cartoons and the like. The same way I would never be offended by Zip a dee doo dah because I have enough evidence to believe that the writer of the song did not intend for it to be a derogatory meaning word, but rather a nonsense sound that is fun to make.
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
By "it", I meant the Tweet that sparked this line of discussion.

The "it" is the word either way. Yes, there are people that are offended by the word. Twitter is widely read. That is why I noted to be wary of blanket statements when you say no one could be offended by that.
 

brettf22

Premium Member
Non-spoiler take on the movie:

I have a feeling there is no way they will be able to resist the siren-song of adding ride elements that are much more obvious tie-ins to movie, to the point where, like PotC, future generations will say “It’s so cool that they made a ride based on the movies.”

And I can see them starting with adding back Trader Sam. The movie version, that is.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
Saw the pictures of the work being done.

It will be disappointing if those details and props get replaced with nothing and it just becomes a plain bridge.
Adventureland with no indication of adventure.
Hey, wasn't the American frontier a bad thing for Native Americans?
How about the colonialism of Liberty Square?
 
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