Isn't Princess and the Frog offensive?

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In Disney's defense, James Baskett after Uncle Remus was quite controversial in which he upset the NAACP who was pushing for progress while he was staring in shows that didn't show African American in the best of light. (Look up Andy and Amos Show).

Additionally, his Oscar is controversial because it was begged by Disney for an award compared to Hattie MacDaniel who actually competed and won against her peers.

Hattie MacDaniel was actually cancelled by the black community with her success extremely limited because she lost all support fom the black community which also limited her appeal and ability to sell tickets.

The first African American man to actually win an Academy award for Best Actor (Sidney Poitier) in 1963 yelled at the academy during his speech for not giving roles to Black people real roles outside criminals and the help and his winning was due to just being a token.

As for Princess and the Frog, as a person of color, I believe this film was probably one of the best representation of what Black woman have to go through....Tiana had to work hard on her own, dealing with black men not family putting them down (the restaurant owner in the beginning), the disappointment of a dream deferred (her not getting the restaurant at first because too late) and how their personalities can come across too aggressive at times. She succeeds despite her challenges and finds someone.

Another positive rep within the film in my opinion is Tiana didn't have an absent father which is very prevalent in low income Black families.

I get the oh she needed a man to help her. But to be honest, Her man Naveen was broke because his playboy lifestyle and mommy/daddy cutting him off so he had nothing to do or provide her.

The biggest argument on why Princess and the Frog was racist was due to the fact, they made the first black princess a frog majority of the movie and I remember some Caucasian people at the time were arguing the film shouldn't be called princess and the frog since she wasn't a princess to begin with. (These same people did get called out recently on facebook for their previous hot take which they stated they did't realize how rude that was at the time).

I do understand the arguments against the film being a sign of progress. Such as the voodoo piece which is also a very complex argument. Voodoo or Vondou originated in west africa as a mix of Christian culture and shamanism essentially. A lot of people were Christian by day, practicioners of voodoo by night. It was like some the African folklore that people are arguing about keeping with Splash Mountain. It was brought by slaves as something from home so the gods to here. Unfortunately, Hollywood and mainstream cultured perverted it from its original form for entertainment purposes as well as the religious entities who tie it to satanism out of ignorance. This lead to a lot saying Dr Facilier being a voodoo witch doctor as problematic mainly by the Christian/Conservative area when truthfully there still is a large population of Haitian Voodoo practitioners in New Orleans.

I’ve never known that about you...and it doesn’t matter at all as your contributions are great without any consideration of ethnicity, sex, gender, etc.

I’m not commenting on the politicking of baskett and color behind the scenes...its just that was a great performance no matter what the politics of it.

Obviously the Amos and Andy, buckwheat tropes are wrong on every level. But I’ll never get burying them as if they never existed. That’s not “progress” in my opinion.

I just hate Disney’s knee jerk “washing” of their themepark rides. The Pirates scene being another example. Just because we used to do and say things...doesn’t mean we all have to be that way. And obviously a lot of change is needed. I’m an embarrassed American...there’s just no way to parse that. Time to “get up” and be more than what we are. Just my take.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

Yes honestly I think its just as "offensive" if that's the reason for the change.
The characters are very stereotyped and the songs while I like them also send a stereotype message that you should only get what you need and you need to work harder for it when you're a certain race.
The knee jerk reaction to recent events bothers me.

 

[Quinnmac000]

I’ve never known that about you...and it doesn’t matter at all as your contributions are great without any consideration of ethnicity, sex, gender, etc.

I’m not commenting on the politicking of baskett and color behind the scenes...its just that was a great performance no matter what the politics of it.

Obviously the Amos and Andy, buckwheat tropes are wrong on every level. But I’ll never get burying them as if they never existed. That’s not “progress” in my opinion.

I just hate Disney’s knee jerk “washing” of their themepark rides. The Pirates scene being another example. Just because we used to do and say things...doesn’t mean we all have to be that way. And obviously a lot of change is needed. I’m an embarrassed American...there’s just no way to parse that. Time to “get up” and be more than what we are. Just my take.

I understand your feelings. Right now feels like a turbulent air plane ride full of change. I think the big thing here is one of the largest arguments is these big name companies put out flowery press releases and don't do anything.

This argument about Splash Mountain isn't new. Its been around since the ride came out and I think this was a chance for Disney to put action to their words to show its not fully hollow.

I mean there is a reason why there is a black woman leading this project.

Lastly this is a business decision.

African Americans collectively spend 1.2 trillion a year on goods according to Neilsen. That means on average black people are spending ~28,965.50 a year. Neilsen also realized African Americans are the most brand loyal compared to othe races/ethnicities in the states (Look at the black community and the consumption of Hennessy). Disney wants those consistent dollars.

 

[Magic Feather]

I just hate Disney’s knee jerk “washing” of their themepark rides. The Pirates scene being another example. Just because we used to do and say things...doesn’t mean we all have to be that way. And obviously a lot of change is needed. I’m an embarrassed American...there’s just no way to parse that. Time to “get up” and be more than what we are. Just my take.

This is far from a knee jerk reaction. Splash was known to be a problem within the company since it opened. A few years ago, the company really buckled down to start working on an assortment of proposals, from demo-ing the attraction to overlays. As stated by DPB (and it is true) the PatF overlay was honed in on about a year ago for further, extensive development. While recent events likely accelerated the timeline, the attraction, in its current state, was on borrowed time.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is far from a knee jerk reaction. Splash was known to be a problem within the company since it opened. A few years ago, the company really buckled down to start working on an assortment of proposals, from demo-ing the attraction to overlays. As stated by DPB (and it is true) the PatF overlay was honed in on about a year ago for further, extensive development. While recent events likely accelerated the timeline, the attraction, in its current state, was on borrowed time.

Was it really a “problem”?

I think that’s overstated. It’s not been enough to move on prior. I think this is a scrap/refurb under the guise of politics.

But splash mountain is absolutely one of the greatest Disney rides...and so we have some “mine training” or slinky of it...

Such is life in the brave new world.

 

[Rich T]

Tiana does indeed encounter discrimination in the film. When she loses her bid for the property, one of the lenders makes a crack about her “background” and it visibly registers in her reaction. In the beginning sequence, she and her mom sit at the back of the streetcar. The ride from Charlotte’s neighborhood to Tiana’s neighborhood speaks volumes without need for words.

The movie focuses, however, on courage and forces of good: her father dies defending his country. Her rich white friend Charlotte doesn’t hesitate to leave her “prince” date to help Tiana after Tiana’s awful moment with the lenders. Tiana, despite living in a world where she has to work two jobs to have a chance of success, treats everyone with kindness while still standing up for herself.

The Princess and the Frog is a wonderful and *beautifully* made movie. Despite a couple of flaws (needlessly complicated villain plot), it’s been embraced by millions, especially among the new gen of Disney’s target spenders. It fully deserves to be represented by a major attraction, unlike Song of the South, which is a lousy movie which—despite being made with good intentions—defines the term “HAS NOT AGED WELL” to the fullest extreme imaginable.

 

[Clopin Trouillefou]

This is far from a knee jerk reaction. Splash was known to be a problem within the company since it opened. A few years ago, the company really buckled down to start working on an assortment of proposals, from demo-ing the attraction to overlays. As stated by DPB (and it is true) the PatF overlay was honed in on about a year ago for further, extensive development. While recent events likely accelerated the timeline, the attraction, in its current state, was on borrowed time.

Thanks for explaining. the insight is useful, as it serves to dispel the notion that Disney executives wake up on a random tuesday, read twitter, and say "do this."

 

[waltography]

Did you even watch SotS?

Yes, I did! And I stand by what I said.

 

[Phroobar]

Yes, I did! And I stand by what I said.

I highly doubt that.

 

[shambolicdefending]

It's interesting to think about the idea what's socially acceptable or not in society is very dynamic. SotS wasn't considered offensive in its time.

It stands to reason that stuff that doesn't bother us today will be viewed poorly in the future. And being "woke" in the year 2020 will offer no protection.

 

[Californian Elitist]

It's interesting to think about the idea what's socially acceptable or not in society is very dynamic. SotS wasn't considered offensive in its time.

Yes it was.

 

[Nirya]

I had just rewatched PatF, and my take is that the movie is much too subtle when it comes to racial issues. They’re present, but the movie never really wants to call attention to them, with the only bit that even gets foregrounded being when the banker tells Tiana that running a business would be hard for someone of her “background”. I don’t know the specific reasoning for this, but I have two theories:

1. The writers had a story they wanted to tell, and did not want to complicate it. They focused on the KISS principles, but failed to realize stories can speak to multiple ideas at once. It’s why Pixar movies tend to work so well, as they can offer multiple threads at once. But a discussion of racism in the Deep South didn’t fit with their princess story, so it was backgrounded as much as possible.

2. The writers were not talented enough to thread the needle. To make the Pixar comparison again, the best Pixar movies carry big messages while still being made for kids -the Toy Story franchise deals with the concept of growing up, Up focuses on grief, Wall-E takes consumerism to a logical endpoint, etc. The writers here wanted to tell a “racism is bad” story using the traditional Disney princess model as a sort of Trojan horse, but all they ended up doing is telling the Disney princess story competently.

All of which to say: I would not say the film is offensive in a way that detracts from the story. There are problems, but those problems don’t appear to be rooted in ignorance, but rather storytelling.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I'v seen PatF several times, long before this year actually. So what Naveen isn't Black. It never even dawned on me this was either a slap in the face from either end of suggested extreme perspectives. She fell in love with him and his color was second to it all. Isn't that ok?

I'm a White Italian, my wife is German. My White sister married a Mexican/Puerto Rican. And our first son is probably marrying his Black girlfriend very, very soon. My closest friends are Asian; my closest friends at church are three men of three different colors- Black, Brown, and White.

Fact of the matter is we are all 99% alike aside from the color of our skin. It's time to treat everyone with love, honor and respect and equal rights. Right?

Check our Dr. John Perkins' book "One Blood" or Miles McPherson's "The Third Option". Both are Black pastors with a fully Biblical mindset. They'll challenge your thinking.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I'v seen PatF several times, long before this year actually. So what Naveen isn't Black. It never even dawned on me this was either a slap in the face from either end of suggested extreme perspectives. She fell in love with him and his color was second to it all. Isn't that ok?

There's nothing wrong with interracial relationships. However, the topic of black love within the black community is a sensitive one because of the issues black Americans face when it comes to dating each other. Because of our issues, whenever we see successful, long lasting black couples, we praise them for "beating the odds," so to speak.

Disney had the opportunity to match Tiana with a well off black man, but they instead decided to make Naveen racially ambiguous with a romantic accent. There is nothing terrible about this, but many black fans of the film questioned why a black prince wasn't created for the film. We have a black princess, but no black prince. Tiana will most likely be the only black princess Disney will create.

It was a missed opportunity.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

My guess is there will be other stories in development with Black princesses and princes and even (gosh!) common folk.
I'm sure other folks of color as well. But I understand what you're saying. I'm sure they storywriters felt it was a no-win situation.

 

[Quinnmac000]

There's nothing wrong with interracial relationships. However, the topic of black love within the black community is a sensitive one because of the issues black Americans face when it comes to dating each other. Because of our issues, whenever we see successful, long lasting black couples, we praise them for "beating the odds," so to speak.

Disney had the opportunity to match Tiana with a well off black man, but they instead decided to make Naveen racially ambiguous with a romantic accent. There is nothing terrible about this, but many black fans of the film questioned why a black prince wasn't created for the film. We have a black princess, but no black prince. Tiana will most likely be the only black princess Disney will create.

It was a missed opportunity.

Again while Naveen was a prince...he was broke and planning to marry a rich woman for money. Having Naveen be a broke black prince marrying for money would come off really really bad, Also having a well off black man makes Tiana not the strong independent I don't need anyone else to succeed woman she is protrayed in the film.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Again while Naveen was a prince...he was broke and planning to marry a rich woman for money. Having Naveen be a broke black prince marrying for money would come off really really bad and also make Tiana not the strong independent I don't need anyone else to succeed woman she is protrayed in the film.

They didn’t have to go with that narrative though. They could have created a black character who was strong, successful, and wise with money. They didn’t.

Tiana could have still be strong and independent whether she was paired with another strong and independent character or not.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

^^^ That's an interesting take! Never thought of that.

 

[BrianLo]

Tiana will most likely be the only black princess Disney will create.

It was a missed opportunity.

I certainly hope this won't be the case. PatF shares some unfortunate Princess tropes left over from the 90's, particularly in terms of women empowerment.

The slight positive trend is that Disney Animation has re-circled around to its third Asian lead (Mulan, Hiro, Raya)... so won't totally feel like a "quota" was somehow achieved with PatF.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I certainly hope this won't be the case. PatF shares some unfortunate Princess tropes left over from the 90's, particularly in terms of women empowerment.

The slight positive trend is that Disney Animation has re-circled around to its third Asian lead (Mulan, Hiro, Raya)... so won't totally feel like a "quota" was somehow achieved with PatF.

I do not doubt there will be future black Disney characters (Pixar's Soul has a black lead). However, there will probably never be another princess, and if one should come along, it will probably be decades from now. The first princess of color arrived in 1992 with Jasmine; we have not seen another like her (mixture of Indian and Arabic cultures) since. We have not seen another Native American or Chinese/Asian princess either. Moana will most likely be the only Polynesian princess. I believe Disney is perfectly fine with giving communities of color their one princess, while continuing to create white princess narratives for the future.