Is it "okay" to expect better?

[bryanfze55]

If Disneyland didn’t meet my expectations, I wouldn’t travel all the way from the Midwest to go.

I’ve been to a lot of theme parks in this country, and I can say there still isn’t anything that comes close to Disneyland (not DCA, just Disneyland Park). Is it perfect? No. Did it used to be better? Probably. But society as a whole is going downhill, so...

I have no doubt Tokyo Disney is even better, but they use a ton of IP there also. It just tends to be well done.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I think people expect too much. There are so many needy special guests that want to make everything about them and sadly Disney plays into this with their awful "immersive" "personalized" attractions. People need to realize that they're just theme parks for kids and bored adults and guests are insignificant specks in the universe. You're not that important.

 

[SuddenStorm]

You mean the naive people that look at the early concept art and totally expect it be just like that?

The concept art is definitely something that could be improved. I'm glad you mentioned it. Not only is it of generally poor quality, but if often doesn't actually represent the final product- as the Disney Concept art of yesteryear did.

Let's look at Herb Rhyman's concept for New Orleans Square and New Tomorrowland-

Or here's the concept art for Big Thunder-

Or my favorites, some of the original Fantasmic! art.

I'd say each of these beautiful illustrations does a wonderful job of evoking the visuals as well as the intended feel of the place. Somehow, someone could look at these images, go to the actual place, and not feel disappointed. Imagine that.

 

[Phroobar]

If Disneyland didn’t meet my expectations, I wouldn’t travel all the way from the Midwest to go.

I’ve been to a lot of theme parks in this country, and I can say there still isn’t anything that comes close to Disneyland (not DCA, just Disneyland Park). Is it perfect? No. Did it used to be better? Probably. But society as a whole is going downhill, so...

I have no doubt Tokyo Disney is even better, but they use a ton of IP there also. It just tends to be well done.

You need to get out of the Midwest more often. Just because you think society is going downhill is no excuse to accept mediocrity from Disney especially at these prices.

 

[Missing20K]

Even Cars Land could have been better with a mini autopia and Sci-fi a drive in restaurant.

I always wanted the Cozy Cone Motel to be an actual hotel, akin to the Grand Californian with a dedicated in-park entrance. Demo Luigi's Rollickin' Roadsters and put it there.

 

[Phroobar]

I always wanted the Cozy Cone Motel to be an actual hotel, akin to the Grand Californian with a dedicated in-park entrance. Demo Luigi's Rollickin' Roadsters and put it there.

I don't think that would work unless you are using Time Lord technology (bigger on the inside). They could probably get two hotel rooms in there but the cost would be like the Dream Suite in Disneyland. Who would want to stay in a 50's style room in the middle of Carsland for tens of thousands of dollars a night?

 

[Missing20K]

I don't think that would work unless you are using Time Lord technology (bigger on the inside). They could probably get two hotel rooms in there but the cost would be like the Dream Suite in Disneyland. Who would want to stay in a 50's style room in the middle of Carsland for tens of thousands of dollars a night?

To be fair, people stay in 50's style rooms for thousands of dollars across the street. Being in the Cozy Cone in the middle of a DIS park gotta be worth an extra zero.

And the cones are at least as big as a Tower Studio at WDW Riviera.

 

[Phroobar]

To be fair, people stay in 50's style rooms for thousands of dollars across the street. Being in the Cozy Cone in the middle of a DIS park gotta be worth an extra zero.

And the cones are at least as big as a Tower Studio at WDW Riviera.

That's stupid. It would be totally out of scale. Besides, I've never heard of a room across the street in those motels that costs thousands of dollars a night unless it comes with a pretty amazing girl or two.

 

[bryanfze55]

You need to get out of the Midwest more often. Just because you think society is going downhill is no excuse to accept mediocrity from Disney especially at these prices.

1. I don’t need to do anything, and people from Chicago or Minneapolis are no more or less cultured or whatever than people from SoCal.

2. It was an exaggeration. I don’t think society is going downhill in a literal sense, but I do think guest behavior and customer service have declined overall. Other than that, I think this is probably the best time in history to be alive, all things considered. And clearly I have the financial means to take a family on Disney trips halfway across the country, which leads me to this point:

3. If you’re a local, an AP is about $1000. And you can go almost whenever you want. That’s not that much money. Maybe the issue is that you’ve gone too much and the place has lost its shine for you. That’s perfectly understandable. If you genuinely don’t think Disneyland is a good value anymore, then just don’t go.

4. None of this is to say I like what Iger/Chapek have done to the parks, but the damage to Disneyland itself has been pretty minimal. DCA has been the real victim, but as I said earlier, Disneyland is still the best theme park in the country and I stand by that. Whether or not a Disney AP for $1000 is a better value to you than say a Knotts AP for $200 or whatever is a personal decision. But in absolute terms, one park is clearly superior.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I'd love to! I'd be nervous though, I've only been to Canada & Mexico, but my friend swears it's doable to travel to Beijing / Shanghai and not break the bank. Tokyo Disney is on my bucketlist.

Do it. I've found that often the International parks are less stressful than the ones in the states, and they are certainly cheaper. Great attractions await you at all of them.

You definitely have to look around a bit for good airfare, but LAX and other west coast airports can get some good deals (if possible, DO NOT fly a domestic airline to Asia-you'll get much better service on the international carriers). Keep in mind that your airfare can go DOWN in price if you make it a multi-stop itinerary. When we went to Japan last year, my mother flew a direct flight, to and from Tokyo from Chicago. I stopped at Hong Kong and Shanghai before going on to Tokyo and then flying home to Chicago. My airfare was more than $500 cheaper than hers. If you wanted to add multiple Asian Disney resorts onto one trip, it's not hard to do at all.

A lot of anxieties people feel about traveling to other countries are all in their head. It also helps that transit is consistently bilingual in other countries. Research and prepare yourself, definitely (Shanghai especially: DO NOT go into Mainland China blind), but it's not as intimidating as many imagine. If you can Disney in the states, you can Disney elsewhere. Same with travel in general. Language barrier, also, isn't insurmountable; I have yet to go to any country that speaks another language knowing more than 10 words of that language. More is better, obviously, but I've always gotten by just fine.

Go whenever you get a chance; right now the international parks, in general, are doing a better job of living up to Disney's name than the ones in the states for less money. You won't regret it!

 

[Phroobar]

1. I don’t need to do anything, and people from Chicago or Minneapolis are no more or less cultured or whatever than people from SoCal.

2. It was an exaggeration. I don’t think society is going downhill in a literal sense, but I do think guest behavior and customer service have declined overall. Other than that, I think this is probably the best time in history to be alive, all things considered. And clearly I have the financial means to take a family on Disney trips halfway across the country, which leads me to this point:

3. If you’re a local, an AP is about $1000. And you can go almost whenever you want. That’s not that much money. Maybe the issue is that you’ve gone too much and the place has lost its shine for you. That’s perfectly understandable. If you genuinely don’t think Disneyland is a good value anymore, then just don’t go.

4. None of this is to say I like what Iger/Chapek have done to the parks, but the damage to Disneyland itself has been pretty minimal. DCA has been the real victim, but as I said earlier, Disneyland is still the best theme park in the country and I stand by that. Whether or not a Disney AP for $1000 is a better value to you than say a Knotts AP for $200 or whatever is a personal decision. But in absolute terms, one park is clearly superior.

Really? So you believe that Disneyland is good enough and we shouldn't want better service and entertainment even though prices go up constantly? I've been going for fifty years and have seen a huge decline. Where is the live entertainment? Where are the world class cast members that are there to make things magical? Why are so many things constantly broken? Why is line management poor? Why are security checkpoints a joke? Why do I have to play the lottery to ride a new attraction?

The executive attitude is as long as the park is as good if not a little better than the competition, then things are good enough. That is the same kind of attitude that gave us DCA 1.0. They took pieces of the local competition and threw it together and wondered why no one showed up for ten years.

Granted, Cars Land, Pandora (@WDW) and Galaxy's Edge are bright spots but they were only built because the competition did it better with Harry Potter. It was reactionary. It is the same reason we have Disney Hollywood Studios was because Universal was building down the road. The only reason we have Disney Animal Kingdom was to compete against Bush Gardens and zoos. Everything great Disney does is reactionary otherwise they give us mediocre things like Pixar Pier, Princess m&g, MK's "New" Fantasyland, various Toy Story lands, Mission Cashout and Avengers Campus. I can't wait until Universal kicks them again with Nintendo World. Maybe then we will get some background music and some roaming droids/aliens in Galaxy's Edge.

Of course if you are starved for entertainment, the Disneyland Resort and WDW may look amazing. Take it from me, they aren't what they were and Disney should be held accountable for it.

 

[bryanfze55]

Really? So you believe that Disneyland is good enough and we shouldn't want better service and entertainment even though prices go up constantly? I've been going for fifty years and have seen a huge decline. Where is the live entertainment? Where are the world class cast members that are there to make things magical? Why are so many things constantly broken? Why is line management poor? Why are security checkpoints a joke? Why do I have to play the lottery to ride a new attraction?

The executive attitude is as long as the park is as good if not a little better than the competition, then things are good enough. That is the same kind of attitude that gave us DCA 1.0. They took pieces of the local competition and threw it together and wondered why no one showed up for ten years.

Granted, Cars Land, Pandora (@WDW) and Galaxy's Edge are bright spots but they were only built because the competition did it better with Harry Potter. It was reactionary. It is the same reason we have Disney Hollywood Studios was because Universal was building down the road. The only reason we have Disney Animal Kingdom was to compete against Bush Gardens and zoos. Everything great Disney does is reactionary otherwise they give us mediocre things like Pixar Pier, Princess m&g, MK's "New" Fantasyland, various Toy Story lands, Mission Cashout and Avengers Campus. I can't wait until Universal kicks them again with Nintendo World. Maybe then we will get some background music and some roaming droids/aliens in Galaxy's Edge.

Of course if you are starved for entertainment, the Disneyland Resort and WDW may look amazing. Take it from me, they aren't what they were and Disney should be held accountable for it.

You’ve been going for fifty years? Dude I thought you were like 20 lol. sorry, I’ll show more respect.

I actually don’t think WDW is all that. There is a significant difference in quality between WDW and Disneyland. You say Disneyland is inferior compared to what it used to be, and I definitely believe you. But I’ve only been going for a few years, and the only things that have greatly offended me would be cheap layovers like Pixar Pier and Guardians (although it is a fun ride). Again, I’m not a fan of DCA. I also agree that Disney is a reactionary company with limited creative vision. Can’t argue that.

I’m not giving excuses to current management, but I still go for what the generations that came before built. The classic Disneyland theming and attractions still have huge draw for me. There are plenty of other theme parks I enjoy, but none compare to Disneyland. I’m sure this will wear off over time, and I will pinpoint the faults a lot more than I do now... but it still has shine for me as it is, especially because my first experience there was with my own child. It’s okay to expect better customer service, of course, or more entertainment. I’m just saying expectations can go sky high, but we live in a world of relativity, and relative to other theme parks Disneyland is still the best.

 

[bryanfze55]

I would add that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the thinking “If I’m spending twice as much as I was, I should be getting more out of the experience.” Hopefully it didn’t come off that way, but I have no issue with that train of thought. I do think Disney is spending money on their parks, but I think the spending is potentially in the wrong places. They’re building great high tech attractions but spending less on entertainment... that may be great in one customer’s mind, terrible in another’s.

At the end of the day, the only way to hold them accountable is to stop going.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

1. I don’t need to do anything, and people from Chicago or Minneapolis are no more or less cultured or whatever than people from SoCal.

2. It was an exaggeration. I don’t think society is going downhill in a literal sense, but I do think guest behavior and customer service have declined overall. Other than that, I think this is probably the best time in history to be alive, all things considered. And clearly I have the financial means to take a family on Disney trips halfway across the country, which leads me to this point:

3. If you’re a local, an AP is about $1000. And you can go almost whenever you want. That’s not that much money. Maybe the issue is that you’ve gone too much and the place has lost its shine for you. That’s perfectly understandable. If you genuinely don’t think Disneyland is a good value anymore, then just don’t go.

4. None of this is to say I like what Iger/Chapek have done to the parks, but the damage to Disneyland itself has been pretty minimal. DCA has been the real victim, but as I said earlier, Disneyland is still the best theme park in the country and I stand by that. Whether or not a Disney AP for $1000 is a better value to you than say a Knotts AP for $200 or whatever is a personal decision. But in absolute terms, one park is clearly superior.

You have some valid points. I too would argue that Disneyland is the best theme park in the country, if not the world.. at least in part solely due to the fact that Disneyland has such a cultural and historical significance. And not everything "newer" at Disneyland has been bad. IJA is incredible as is Splash. The diamond celebration changes hit their mark. Haven't had a chance to see Rise. But the history and what we've come to know from Disney makes a huge impact on my opinion of this advertisement / IP everything mentality that has taken place lately.

For locals, an AP would be worth it. For people like me (5 hour drive), unless i'm going more than twice a year, it makes zero sense. And what for? I'm paying more bucks so TDA can pat themselves on the back for Hyperspace, Mission Cheapout, and Pixar Pier? A rundown Tomorrowland? It's absurd & insane that Iger and company are taking advantage of the theme park name without seemingly caring at all about what Disneyland is all about. And i'm not talking about WDW, but my god some of the best rides there are in a bad state.

Though Iger is responsible for some very questionable park changes, it's state-fair $hapek who's been implementing the real awful changes at Disney California.

 

[Phroobar]

My expectations are pretty low but I like to hope for better and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Missing20K]

That's stupid. It would be totally out of scale. Besides, I've never heard of a room across the street in those motels that costs thousands of dollars a night unless it comes with a pretty amazing girl or two.

More cones the same size as those currently existing would be out of scale? If you say so. It's a fruitless conversation anyway.

The motels across the street push 250 a night and more for peak times (not too mention those wonderful parking and/or resort fees). Family of 5 needing two rooms for a 4 night trip? Hello $2000+.

You can keep those "amazing" girls.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

Oh brother.

 

[Travel Junkie]

You have some valid points. I too would argue that Disneyland is the best theme park in the country, if not the world.

This is how I look at things. I should do a formal count, but I have been lucky enough to visit a ton of theme parks, possibly in the triple digits all over the world. IMO Disney Sea is #1 and Disneyland is #2. Of the top 10 I would probably put at least 7 Disney parks in the top 10. So if I am getting the rational of some, it is Disney parks and specifically Disneyland is possibly the best or certainly a top 3-4 theme park in the world, but that's not good enough.

No theme park is or will ever be perfect. I have plenty of criticism's of Disneyland. There will always be things that need improvement. However when I compare Disneyland to the competition, Disneyland is at the top. Those saying the best is not good enough I feel are placing unrealistic expectations on Disneyland. There will be no pleasing you.

I also think comparing it to the Disneyland of the past is setting yourself up for disappointment. Ski passes have skyrocketed in the last decade or so. I certainly don't expect a better experience on the slopes simply because the price went up. I am a fan of classic stage plays. I don't expect Oklahoma to be better now than when I saw it a decade ago simply because it is more expensive to see now. The price of entertainment in practically every form has jumped compared to a decade or two ago.

You are welcome to expect better as it is a personal choice, but I believe you are doing yourself a disservice if you say Disneyland is one of the best theme parks in the world, but that's still not good enough.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

This is how I look at things. I should do a formal count, but I have been lucky enough to visit a ton of theme parks, possibly in the triple digits all over the world. IMO Disney Sea is #1 and Disneyland is #2. Of the top 10 I would probably put at least 7 Disney parks in the top 10. So if I am getting the rational of some, it is Disney parks and specifically Disneyland is possibly the best or certainly a top 3-4 theme park in the world, but that's not good enough.

No theme park is or will ever be perfect. I have plenty of criticism's of Disneyland. There will always be things that need improvement. However when I compare Disneyland to the competition, Disneyland is at the top. Those saying the best is not good enough I feel are placing unrealistic expectations on Disneyland. There will be no pleasing you.

I also think comparing it to the Disneyland of the past is setting yourself up for disappointment. Ski passes have skyrocketed in the last decade or so. I certainly don't expect a better experience on the slopes simply because the price went up. I am a fan of classic stage plays. I don't expect Oklahoma to be better now than when I saw it a decade ago simply because it is more expensive to see now. The price of entertainment in practically every form has jumped compared to a decade or two ago.

You are welcome to expect better as it is a personal choice, but I believe you are doing yourself a disservice if you say Disneyland is one of the best theme parks in the world, but that's still not good enough.

I'm on mobile so I apologise for not responding in full but I don't believe that's fair. It's the best theme park in the world but that's not because of project stardust or hyperspace or a Tomorrowland that's all star wars and pizza planet and etc. See where I'm going? Considering constant price increases at what point do we ask ourselves "is the nostalgia worth it, and at what point will that all be pushed out"? Disneyland was a leader but now it's becoming a billboard and almost a parody of itself. I'd argue strongly that Disney needs a management change.

 

[Travel Junkie]

I'm on mobile so I apologise for not responding in full but I don't believe that's fair. It's the best theme park in the world but that's not because of project stardust or hyperspace or a Tomorrowland that's all star wars and pizza planet and etc. See where I'm going? Considering constant price increases at what point do we ask ourselves "is the nostalgia worth it, and at what point will that all be pushed out"? Disneyland was a leader but now it's becoming a billboard and almost a parody of itself. I'd argue strongly that Disney needs a management change.

Nostalgia is not the reason I consider it the 2nd best theme park in the world. As it stands today, it is superior to practically any other park on earth.

IMO Disney is the gold standard in theme park entertainment. They are the leader.

I don't understand how it is becoming a parody of itself.

And yes this graph certainly shows that Disney needs a management change. Look at how the last decade shows such a poor performance.