Is DVC worth it?

[Seanual757]

You definitely need to sit down and figure out realistically how many times a year and how many years out do you believe you will go to Disney.

For example my wife and I purchased VGF back in 2015 prior to this we stayed @ Disney on average 3-5 times a year and at the point leading up to buying DVC we spent approx. $15k on room’s over the course of 3 years. If we had paid the cost to stay @ VGF for 2 rooms (2 Bedroom (standard view), and 2 Bedroom (lake view) this would have added an additional $13k to the already $12k we spend. Now add in our other 3 stays in 2015 we would have added an additional $4k-5k this put us at our Purchase Price for VGF. (Numbers are not exact but a rough estimate as my wife had an excel spreadsheet with all of our stays and future stays and figured up the cost)

We did finance for 1 year then paid it off (We purchased Direct), since we stay now 4-6 times a year, we decided to purchase Polly in April 2016 (Purchased Direct) so we can stay more each year. We average 1 6-7 day trip, and 1-2 (3-day stays) and 2-3 (2-day stays). We normally book a 1 bedroom and at times a 2 bedroom. For us since we are local a family of 6 with 4 small kids (8, 7, 2, 7 months) we will be staying as we do a good 15 years more so the $$$$ savings will add up super-fast. We figured each year we would have averaged out of pocket approx. $8k-$12k depending on the resort and rooms sizes, as well as season but we figured the times we normally stay and added up the cost.

So yes for us it makes sense, for someone who does not live close and comes 1-2 times a year I do not see it being cost effective for DVC.

So in the end only you will know if you can afford it, I do hope the advice you are given helps you make your decision.

Key points
-Figure out how many times a year you will stay
-Figure out how many days per stay
-Figure out the time of year you plan to go each time
-Figure out which resort you prefer to stay at
-Use the DVC 2016 or 2017 room price guide as a template as to how much it will cost per stay.
-Add them all up and add in an additional say on average $1100 for annual dues for 200+ points

Good luck and one last word of advice is if you have any reservations about buying hold off, it’s like the new car syndrome you feel you must have it but after the purchase you end up having buyer’s remorse.

If you do buy Welcome Home

 

[kniquy]

You will save money in the long run if you plan to visit Disney at least every other year. You meet your break even point faster if you purchase a resale contract. So that is definitely something to research.

Just to give you numbers that you can see -- we purchased a 120 point AKV contract for approx $9100. Yes you have yearly maintenance fees , I 'll get back to that in a minute. We are planning a trip in a 2BR standard room at kidani for a 6 nights- pricing it out through Disney it could range from $6000 - $8000 -- depending on the time of year -- I would and could not ever pay that to go there. Our next trip in 2018 in that room will eat up a huge portion of our initial purchase price. So once we break even -- say in 4 -5 years -- our yearly maintenance fees (which this year were $780) will be much less than the cost of getting a room though Disney.

So for that 2BR Stnd room for 6 nights -in our time frame of going in April it will cost 241 points -- so two years of maintenance fees would approximately be (with yearly increases) ~ $1600 for that same room.

Savings does happen but not until you are a few trips into your contract. If you go to disney often then it can be a wise investment. The Maintenance fees increase and people will gripe about that, but you also have to consider that the rooms through disney will increase from year to year as well.

You will get many different opinions from those who love it to those who over analyze the time -money lost investment of that money used to purchase a DVC contract. What matters is that you know how often you plan to visit, thoroughly understand the ins/outs of the system and its limitations at times and financial commitments. I had a good basis when we bought but i keep reading these and other forums almost daily. there are always new topics and new scenarios which i hadn't known about -- so like anything -- you keep learning new things. It is best to start out smaller 100-150pt contract and you can always add on down the road if you need more points.

 

[kniquy]

What I mean is when I did a tour for it once, they sales guy told me there was no guarantee the points would remain the same for the duration of the contract

As far as I have ever read - DVD can never increase the total points for the resort -- so if they started out with a total points for all rooms of say 500,000 -- that is all they get to play with -- they can adjust and realign them (which they have done in the past by increasing some week day points and decreasing some weekend) but never increase above that 500,000 point mark. With the newer resorts they are starting out with a higher point value so those rooms at Poly and VGF and probably the new copper creek -- a studio at those resorts might be 150 points for a week and the older resorts might be 100 points.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Right now I am again too angry with the website to recommend DVC at all. It's been about 3 months since the @%&* site has actually worked for me. Why do constant password changes require my life to become far more complicated than it needs to be? Techies seem to love such idiotic chagnes, but they should really learn that the rest of us absolutely hate/despise/abhor/detest/curse it when those required keystrokes suddenly change for absolutely no good reason whatsoever.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Yeah. poor form to respond to my own prior message, but so be it. I spent about 20 minutes monkeying around to straighten out my password situation. The call center rep was very nice, but she seemed as frustrated as me with the techie changes. Of course, the email method to change the password didn't work on my computer for some unknown reason, so I had to call an actual person.

The world is filled with great websites and other tech innovations that sit without capacity because password challenges make it nearly impossible to actually use. You bring up the subject of passwords with virtually anyone, and they'll have a story of how life used to be good until the password changed. My state has a prescription database to curtail people from getting multiple prescriptions from different doctors for the same drugs. The Problem: The password changes every month, thus causing most doctors to ignore it. Addictive over-prescriptions continue to run rampant.

Anyhow, DVCmember.com is a handy, but incredibly slow, website. The pictures are beautiful, but to actually use it is frustrating. I tried to check availability for Christmas, and various functions ran so slowly that I basically gave up. DVC really needs some new tech people to make their website usable again. The programmers and designers probably think it's great, but it seems they never actually try it out on a 3 year old desktop computer. If this interface to the public is so flawed, what of the remainder of the organization?

 

[elhefe4]

Yeah. poor form to respond to my own prior message, but so be it. I spent about 20 minutes monkeying around to straighten out my password situation. The call center rep was very nice, but she seemed as frustrated as me with the techie changes. Of course, the email method to change the password didn't work on my computer for some unknown reason, so I had to call an actual person.

The world is filled with great websites and other tech innovations that sit without capacity because password challenges make it nearly impossible to actually use. You bring up the subject of passwords with virtually anyone, and they'll have a story of how life used to be good until the password changed. My state has a prescription database to curtail people from getting multiple prescriptions from different doctors for the same drugs. The Problem: The password changes every month, thus causing most doctors to ignore it. Addictive over-prescriptions continue to run rampant.

Anyhow, DVCmember.com is a handy, but incredibly slow, website. The pictures are beautiful, but to actually use it is frustrating. I tried to check availability for Christmas, and various functions ran so slowly that I basically gave up. DVC really needs some new tech people to make their website usable again. The programmers and designers probably think it's great, but it seems they never actually try it out on a 3 year old desktop computer. If this interface to the public is so flawed, what of the remainder of the organization?

Sounds like you could use a password manager. Check out something like LastPass, 1Password, or Dashlane. They store all your passwords and can generate and store complex passwords so you can have unique passwords at each website, which greatly increases your online security. As someone with a strong interest in IT and techy things, I understand your frustration with the frequency of having to change your passwords but I've also experienced the flip side of having someone get into an account and wreak havoc because of a stale password or poor password habits. As annoying as it is, those password requirements are for your benefit.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Sounds like you could use a password manager. Check out something like LastPass, 1Password, or Dashlane. They store all your passwords and can generate and store complex passwords so you can have unique passwords at each website, which greatly increases your online security. As someone with a strong interest in IT and techy things, I understand your frustration with the frequency of having to change your passwords but I've also experienced the flip side of having someone get into an account and wreak havoc because of a stale password or poor password habits. As annoying as it is, those password requirements are for your benefit.

Thanks for your explanation. I had the right password. For some evil reason it ended up changing. I didn't change it--it just happened somehow. Basically it worked one day, and the next day it didn't. I have little objection when truly secure info is protected by a legitimate password. My frustration stems from:

1. Changing passwords without good reason.

2. Passwords for websites that really don't have protected info. (To view the weekly lesson plan for my Church's Sunday School, I need a password. Why?)

3. Overly complex passwords: 12 characters with a combination of letters in both upper and lower cases, numbers, characters, Russian script, and at least one emoji.

4. Websites with so many bells and whistles that it moves at a snail's pace. Cut the crap and get me where I want to go already.

DVCmember.com is guilty of at least three of the above. I really don't know what someone invading my DVC info could do to me that couldn't be cured with an email warning anyway. If someone tries to book a villa, put me on a waitlist, or unbook a reservation, a simple email method for confirmation would be sufficient. Because you're an IT person, I assume you have this security issue as far more paramount in your mind than the rest of us, just as doctors have health concerns as paramount, lawyers have legal issues as paramount, and accountants have tax issues as paramount.

Back in 1990, I worked for the EPA Chicago office's legal department for the summer. During that 3 months, our computer system switched two times because some techie thought each upgrade "was so much better." Believe it or not, employees were bringing in manual typewriters to get their work done because no one had enough time to learn the 2 new systems in 3 months that were thrust upon us. I know that silicon valley survives because of upgrades, but I ended up losing a bunch of info and capabilities (and paying a local tech guru several hundred dollars) last year when Microsoft thrusted an unwanted upgrade on my office computers.

Black and Decker doesn't invade my toolbox because an upgrade for my crescent wrench is now available. I 100% hate it when my computer suffers that invasive fate, including a password change that came without warning and without any easy method to remedy. Again, the "Disney Account Member Services" email did not work. Thus I had to call, wait about 5 minutes before talking to a real person, and spend another 15 minutes or so being walked through a method to change my password and making a note as to what that new password now is. Frustrating, and 20 minutes of my life that I'll never get back. For what? A tiny upgrade in security for a minor part of my life.

 

[elhefe4]

Thanks for your explanation. I had the right password. For some evil reason it ended up changing. I didn't change it--it just happened somehow. Basically it worked one day, and the next day it didn't. I have little objection when truly secure info is protected by a legitimate password. My frustration stems from:

1. Changing passwords without good reason.

2. Passwords for websites that really don't have protected info. (To view the weekly lesson plan for my Church's Sunday School, I need a password. Why?)

3. Overly complex passwords: 12 characters with a combination of letters in both upper and lower cases, numbers, characters, Russian script, and at least one emoji.

4. Websites with so many bells and whistles that it moves at a snail's pace. Cut the crap and get me where I want to go already.

DVCmember.com is guilty of at least three of the above. I really don't know what someone invading my DVC info could do to me that couldn't be cured with an email warning anyway. If someone tries to book a villa, put me on a waitlist, or unbook a reservation, a simple email method for confirmation would be sufficient. Because you're an IT person, I assume you have this security issue as far more paramount in your mind than the rest of us, just as doctors have health concerns as paramount, lawyers have legal issues as paramount, and accountants have tax issues as paramount.

Back in 1990, I worked for the EPA Chicago office's legal department for the summer. During that 3 months, our computer system switched two times because some techie thought each upgrade "was so much better." Believe it or not, employees were bringing in manual typewriters to get their work done because no one had enough time to learn the 2 new systems in 3 months that were thrust upon us. I know that silicon valley survives because of upgrades, but I ended up losing a bunch of info and capabilities (and paying a local tech guru several hundred dollars) last year when Microsoft thrusted an unwanted upgrade on my office computers.

Black and Decker doesn't invade my toolbox because an upgrade for my crescent wrench is now available. I 100% hate it when my computer suffers that invasive fate, including a password change that came without warning and without any easy method to remedy. Again, the "Disney Account Member Services" email did not work. Thus I had to call, wait about 5 minutes before talking to a real person, and spend another 15 minutes or so being walked through a method to change my password and making a note as to what that new password now is. Frustrating, and 20 minutes of my life that I'll never get back. For what? A tiny upgrade in security for a minor part of my life.

Fair enough. My apologies for not properly understanding the situation. You definitely have legitimate concerns and I appreciate them. I'm not in IT myself, just have a strong interest (I'm actually a tax accountant, so you're right about tax issues being paramount ) and I used to be involved in bank cybersecurity. A lot of what I've seen has more important implications to the user than a Sunday School lesson plan, but even that can be important to have secure. You're also correct that a good system should have some sort of email response when you make a change or perform an important action. Some nefarious people will change your email address as soon as they access your account so all the alerts go to them, but good systems will send your old address an alert notifying you of the change. It does seem that Disney's IT leaves much to be desired though, so I don't doubt that the issues you had were on their end.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Thanks again. I don't bank online or manage much of anything online if I can help it. A local Real Estate title company recently got a call on a Saturday afternoon from the local bank, saying they were upgrading their computer system, and rattled off two of the four passwords. You know what happened. She gave out the other two, and $90,000 was gone instantly. There's no recourse because the paperwork specifically warned the customer to NOT ever give out passwords over the phone unless you (the customer) initiated the call.

Yup, I'm the only person in America without the time-sucking habit of Facebook or other social media, and who doesn't bank online. These blogs are sufficient to sate my social media fix, and they suck away more time than I care to admit. Thanks again.

 

[elhefe4]

Thanks again. I don't bank online or manage much of anything online if I can help it. A local Real Estate title company recently got a call on a Saturday afternoon from the local bank, saying they were upgrading their computer system, and rattled off two of the four passwords. You know what happened. She gave out the other two, and $90,000 was gone instantly. There's no recourse because the paperwork specifically warned the customer to NOT ever give out passwords over the phone unless you (the customer) initiated the call.

Yup, I'm the only person in America without the time-sucking habit of Facebook or other social media, and who doesn't bank online. These blogs are sufficient to sate my social media fix, and they suck away more time than I care to admit. Thanks again.

Thank you as well for the civil conversation. Always nice to learn from someone else so thank you for that, Ralph!

 

[WWWD]

Thanks again. I don't bank online or manage much of anything online if I can help it. A local Real Estate title company recently got a call on a Saturday afternoon from the local bank, saying they were upgrading their computer system, and rattled off two of the four passwords. You know what happened. She gave out the other two, and $90,000 was gone instantly. There's no recourse because the paperwork specifically warned the customer to NOT ever give out passwords over the phone unless you (the customer) initiated the call.

Yup, I'm the only person in America without the time-sucking habit of Facebook or other social media, and who doesn't bank online. These blogs are sufficient to sate my social media fix, and they suck away more time than I care to admit. Thanks again.

Nope, there's at least two of us.

 

[Ralphlaw]

With all that being said, and getting back to the question at hand, we've had very good overall experiences with DVC. A list:

1. We made money when we first bought in to Baylake Tower and then sold a couple years later.
2. We then bought at Boardwalk, and I could sell my 300 points right now for a handsome profit.
3. We are treated better at the parks, restaurants, etc . . . This isn't always overt, but it is noticeable.
4. It forces us to take a nice family vacation every year. My kids are 18 and 10, and I'm glad we took so many WDW trips over the years.
5. Our stays are far nicer in the DVC one bedroom villas, and the studios are more spacious than you would think.
6. The "booking game" has become something of a hobby for me.
7. We can easily bring extra people (and charge them). Our Chinese exchange student paid for 1/5th of our maintenance fees last year.
8. Even with the cost and the maintenance fees, we probably come out ahead every year.

For some reason, point prices have risen since we bought in. We started with Baylake, and figuring in the profit we made upon sale, our nightly rate for the times we used the points was less than $10 a night. That's not a typo. We made so much from the sale, that we ended up staying about 20 nights for the total price of less than $200.

We bought in at Boardwalk for $79 per point. They are now selling for about $95 per point. For our 300 points, that would be a profit of $4,800. Even with a 10% sales commission, and the maintenance fees every year, I probably stayed for several dozen nights at DVC for about $100 per night. Yes, if/when the price drops, the numbers won't be nearly as good. But right now our unrealized profit makes me think I'm doing very well. It certainly beats the rack rate of $300 plus per night of a deluxe resort. And with DVC, we get discounts, a washer & dryer, a nice kitchen, more space, an ownership mystique, and the routine of going just about every year. Another layer has been added to our WDW and DL vacations, and overall I think it has been very good for us.

Of course, it would be even better if the website worked right.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

With all that being said, and getting back to the question at hand, we've had very good overall experiences with DVC. A list:

1. We made money when we first bought in to Baylake Tower and then sold a couple years later.
2. We then bought at Boardwalk, and I could sell my 300 points right now for a handsome profit.
3. We are treated better at the parks, restaurants, etc . . . This isn't always overt, but it is noticeable.
4. It forces us to take a nice family vacation every year. My kids are 18 and 10, and I'm glad we took so many WDW trips over the years.
5. Our stays are far nicer in the DVC one bedroom villas, and the studios are more spacious than you would think.
6. The "booking game" has become something of a hobby for me.
7. We can easily bring extra people (and charge them). Our Chinese exchange student paid for 1/5th of our maintenance fees last year.
8. Even with the cost and the maintenance fees, we probably come out ahead every year.

For some reason, point prices have risen since we bought in. We started with Baylake, and figuring in the profit we made upon sale, our nightly rate for the times we used the points was less than $10 a night. That's not a typo. We made so much from the sale, that we ended up staying about 20 nights for the total price of less than $200.

We bought in at Boardwalk for $79 per point. They are now selling for about $95 per point. For our 300 points, that would be a profit of $4,800. Even with a 10% sales commission, and the maintenance fees every year, I probably stayed for several dozen nights at DVC for about $100 per night. Yes, if/when the price drops, the numbers won't be nearly as good. But right now our unrealized profit makes me think I'm doing very well. It certainly beats the rack rate of $300 plus per night of a deluxe resort. And with DVC, we get discounts, a washer & dryer, a nice kitchen, more space, an ownership mystique, and the routine of going just about every year. Another layer has been added to our WDW and DL vacations, and overall I think it has been very good for us.

Of course, it would be even better if the website worked right.

I have to totally agree with everything, except your very last statement. I know that you have experienced website issues, but we never have. It has never forced me to change a password (been the same for over 2 years), and once logged in, it is very responsive. I wish they could fix it for you, so that it worked well. I agree with @elhefe4 for the use of a password management program. We use 1password, and love it. You can use it to create complex passwords for all your websites, and you can share them across all your devices. Oh, and a slight disclaimer. I have been in IT for over 40 years in every aspect of IT there is, and Disney's IT department needs a complete overhaul. They are just not good.

 

[Ralphlaw]

I have to totally agree with everything, except your very last statement. I know that you have experienced website issues, but we never have. It has never forced me to change a password (been the same for over 2 years), and once logged in, it is very responsive. I wish they could fix it for you, so that it worked well. I agree with @elhefe4 for the use of a password management program. We use 1password, and love it. You can use it to create complex passwords for all your websites, and you can share them across all your devices. Oh, and a slight disclaimer. I have been in IT for over 40 years in every aspect of IT there is, and Disney's IT department needs a complete overhaul. They are just not good.

Thanks for your comments. The problem with passwords is the constant need for upgrade, and the idiosyncrasies of each website. A perfectly fine password from one site is insufficient for another. My old DVC password worked fine for more than 5 years, and was suddenly deemed too simple, thus sucking my time away to change it.

As to the website itself, I would suggest you try to check resort availability for the Christmas season, perhaps December 23rd through January 3rd for various resorts. Very slow. It took more than 3 minutes to get anywhere, and even then it wasn't responsive for scrolling around the calendars. To me, it seems to be the classical dilemma of being programmer-friendly and not user-friendly. The best IT people put the simple-minded user foremost in their minds. Unfortunately, too many designers assume that users are more sophisticated than they really are, and thus make a frustrating website.

They also seem to assume that everyone has the latest and fastest computers and other gizmos. My office computers are about 3 years old, and work absolutely fine for 99% of what we do. I don't want to upgrade until I have to. Every upgrade screws up our document formats and we also end up losing stuff. Please don't tell me that the DVC website is meant for newer tech. If that's the criteria for using it, I probably won't, and thus the website is a failure for a certain percentage of owners.

As a 40 year IT veteran, I assume you know all this. You assuredly know that simpler is often better. A local accounting firm had its first website built about 18 years ago. The problem, it was so full of graphics and other junk that it essentially stood still for most modem users back then. Nobody other than tech junkies liked it, and most people didn't have the patience to get past the first page. I would call that web designer a complete and utter idiot. The DVC website seems to be a design by committee, with no true wisdom behind the whole, and no brilliant decision-maker in charge of it. Thanks again.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Thanks for your comments. The problem with passwords is the constant need for upgrade, and the idiosyncrasies of each website. A perfectly fine password from one site is insufficient for another. My old DVC password worked fine for more than 5 years, and was suddenly deemed too simple, thus sucking my time away to change it.

As to the website itself, I would suggest you try to check resort availability for the Christmas season, perhaps December 23rd through January 3rd for various resorts. Very slow. It took more than 3 minutes to get anywhere, and even then it wasn't responsive for scrolling around the calendars. To me, it seems to be the classical dilemma of being programmer-friendly and not user-friendly. The best IT people put the simple-minded user foremost in their minds. Unfortunately, too many designers assume that users are more sophisticated than they really are, and thus make a frustrating website.

So I just tried, and it took 8 seconds to bring up availability for Dec 23 to Jan 3. It was less than 30 seconds from the time I clicked on the "Resort Availability Tool link, until I had the search results. I put in every single DVC resort at WDW, and for a Deluxe Studio, 1 bedroom, and 2 bedroom unit. I certainly can understand your frustration for it taking 3 minutes. I wonder, since you seem to be doing this from work, is there a firewall, or a proxy server, or router misconfiguration that might be causing the slowdown?

They also seem to assume that everyone has the latest and fastest computers and other gizmos. My office computers are about 3 years old, and work absolutely fine for 99% of what we do. I don't want to upgrade until I have to. Every upgrade screws up our document formats and we also end up losing stuff. Please don't tell me that the DVC website is meant for newer tech. If that's the criteria for using it, I probably won't, and thus the website is a failure for a certain percentage of owners.

So I work from home, and I'm typing this on my 9 year old desktop, which is the same computer that I use for everything Disney. You should not have to upgrade at all to get a good experience. Since you can use pretty much the same website from a computer, and a mobile phone, it should run very well on the computer.

As a 40 year IT veteran, I assume you know all this. You assuredly know that simpler is often better. A local accounting firm had its first website built about 18 years ago. The problem, it was so full of graphics and other junk that it essentially stood still for most modem users back then. Nobody other than tech junkies liked it, and most people didn't have the patience to get past the first page. I would call that web designer a complete and utter idiot. The DVC website seems to be a design by committee, with no true wisdom being the whole, and no brilliant decision-maker in charge of it. Thanks again.

I have also done a lot of web design, and I'm also not real happy with the direction that DVC took for their's. I always prefer the simpler is better without all the flashy graphics and all. Really not needed in my opinion. My design is always geared towards someone who doesn't know how to do something, to make it easier on them. The new age techies are the ones that like all that flashy stuff, as you are right, that they think everyone should have the latest and greatest every year.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Glad to hear your experience is faster. The same slows happen for me at work and at home. My iPhone is similarly slow. I don't know what walls or whatever are in the way, but I'm just a lawyer, not a techie. My computers and phone are tools for me, and not something I care to know too much about. I think my car is a fuel injected 4 cylinder, and I can drive it perfectly well despite my ignorance about what's all under the hood. I think my water heater is a 50 gallon, but I don't know that either, or if my floor joists are 2 by 10s or 2 by 12s. I'm sure you would agree that we can't keep up with everything.

Similarly, I've chosen not to spend my time learning a bunch of details about tech in large part because I have to keep up with the other developments in my personal and professional life. I also have paid staff and a teenage son to handle that stuff. Maybe I need to read up. The world is changing faster than I care to think about, and Friedman's latest book is making me feel ignorant all over again.

Anyhow, despite all this, DVC has still been good for me. I just wish the website would get better/faster on my end.

 

[DoleWhipperSnapper]

From someone who grew up in a DVC household as my parents purchased way back when I was little I have to say I wouldn't have had the opportunity to go to WDW nearly as many times as I did growing up. Now my boyfriend has just purchased DVC for our future together and I cannot be happier. If you enjoy vacationing at Disney you will get so much out of it. Also there is so many other destinations you can choose from as well and Cruises and Vero Beach and Hilton Head. I say it is worth it 10 times over.

 

[Donald Razorduck]

I would buy a small amount( enough for your average length of stay in a studio, for us 3 maybe 4 days) from Disney for my primary resort of choice and then go out and get a large number of points at other resorts. I would pay cash, no finance for any of it. I would then rent the resale points to cover the yearly fee costs and to recoup the purchase costs within 10 years time. After that, any money from resale points rentals would fund other travel after yearly cost is settled. Since we don't go every year, I'd bank and borrow if I wanted something other than a studio at the home resort and take my chances with the 7 month window for other resorts. You could transfer some points from your resale property to splurge for a Bungalow or Cabin. We have found that every six years is enough with our kids for Orlando. A trip to Hawaii and LA in the middle of that is just fine. Our kids are in 9th and 7th grade, we will cover anything we didn't do or is new at WDW before our Disney Cruise this coming Spring Break in 2018. We'll likely do Star Wars in LA as a stop over to Hawaii in 2020.

I do want more DVC properties outside of the parks. I wished National Harbor wasn't cancelled and one somewhere around Yellowstone(Jackson Hole) would be grand.