Is Disney complacent , and back on its heels

POLY LOVER

POLY LOVER

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It seems to me that Disney is now reactionary and not leading edge. They seem to rush new rides into service to keep with UStudios only to have to make changes shortly after opening them. They seem to be behind universal now. They are chasing UStudios instead of U chasing them. Harry Potter was answered by the expansion of MK.
And I don.t think it was a wow! There next chance will be the Aviatar land, will it be a wow?
 
POLY LOVER

POLY LOVER

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Exactly my point go back to what works and has worked in the past, leading edge tech and animatronics.
Move like turning the main street bakery into a coffe shop and calling it a bakery will not keep the real fans of Disney coming back they will lose the feeling they created years ago trying to outsource the parks assets for a quick buck. It works temporarily but then it fades in the end. What will be the game changer for Disney?
 
S

SW_matt

Well-Known Member
I still think wdw beats US (for me at least) and the reason isn't down to the number of rides, but the theming/shows/resorts etc. Sure US probably wins like for like on the rides front but theres a reason attendance is higher at WDW IMO
 
M

Mouse_Trap

Well-Known Member
POLY LOVER said:
It seems to me that Disney is now reactionary and not leading edge. They seem to rush new rides into service to keep with UStudios only to have to make changes shortly after opening them. They seem to be behind universal now. They are chasing UStudios instead of U chasing them. Harry Potter was answered by the expansion of MK.
And I don.t think it was a wow! There next chance will be the Aviatar land, will it be a wow?
Click to expand...

I would hardly call them reactionary or of rushing rides into service with their 5-6 year development cycle. Are they leading edge? Well, there has been little evidence of anything
'leading edge' in WDW over the last decade, unless we count the evolutionary regression otherwise known as Magic Bands and FP+. Disney have shown us that they can still be 'leading edge' when they want to be, unfortunately at WDW they keep choosing not to bother.

The Fantasyland expansion, despite what Disney like people to think was hardly an expansion. It was mostly re-purposing what already existed.

I think Avatarland will be a wow, at least visually. It certainly needs to be.
However, I'm not convinced it will be a space people will have much love for. I am also concerned about the rides that will open, from what we hear it will be a well themed It's a Small World clone and a Soarin' clone. It's a huge missed opportunity in my view to have not taken one of the flying rollercoasters and themed it to the max.

Certainly Universal is showing the world what can be achieved, and how quickly that can be developed.
Disney could follow that lead, but would rather not spend the cash; instead rely that they fanbase returns time and time again for the same attractions.
 
BigRedDad

BigRedDad

Well-Known Member
The reason they are losing people is because nothing has changed. They need to get the parks fixed. MK is set, just a little TLC. AK has its plans set and will be up and running in a few years (Avatar, night show). Epcot is Epcot. Not much changing there. DHS is horrible. Not going into everything they need to do there. And finally, they need to fix the buses. Kiosks at all bus stops. Shows when the last bus came and when the next is arriving. As the number of people grow waiting, they can dispatch buses faster. It should also show the number of buses that show up for other resorts and not yours. I think it is part of the thrill waiting in line for a bus with 150 people while another resort with 3 people have 4 buses show up before yours.
 
JordanNite

JordanNite

Well-Known Member
At the moment they are fine - as new emerging markets open up to them from South America, a US public that still on a whole enjoying holidaying in their own country, etc .... but in the long term the tenure of Bob Iger is doing massive harm to the theme parks. No new attractions, no investment and eventually people will stop coming. And by then they will be scrambling to invest.

But it's okay because Bob Iger will be long gone by then and it will be next mans problems.

No one is even talking massive whole changes, but they should look to invest in at least one e-ticket attraction every two years. Disney in the last decade have only produced a mild coaster for Magic Kingdom - disgraceful.
 
Master Yoda

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Mouse_Trap said:
I would hardly call them reactionary or of rushing rides into service with their 5-6 year development cycle. Are they leading edge? Well, there has been little evidence of anything
'leading edge' in WDW over the last decade, unless we count the evolutionary regression otherwise known as Magic Bands and FP+. Disney have shown us that they can still be 'leading edge' when they want to be, unfortunately at WDW they keep choosing not to bother.

The Fantasyland expansion, despite what Disney like people to think was hardly an expansion. It was mostly re-purposing what already existed.

I think Avatarland will be a wow, at least visually. It certainly needs to be.
However, I'm not convinced it will be a space people will have much love for. I am also concerned about the rides that will open, from what we hear it will be a well themed It's a Small World clone and a Soarin' clone. It's a huge missed opportunity in my view to have not taken one of the flying rollercoasters and themed it to the max.

Certainly Universal is showing the world what can be achieved, and how quickly that can be developed.
Disney could follow that lead, but would rather not spend the cash; instead rely that they fanbase returns time and time again for the same attractions.
Click to expand...
A couple of points....

I would not expect huge thrills or a hyper coaster at a stateside Disney park anytime soon. Disney would appear to be aiming at the much larger family demo vs the much smaller teen/young adult thrill seeking one. The last big thrill they did was M:S and it turned out to be too extreme and got far too much negative publicity.

What is going up in Pandora are 2 attractions that 90% +/- of the guests walking through the front gates can ride and IMHO that is a good thing. Having an attraction with a 48" or greater height restriction locks out your average kid 7 or under. Along with that would also be one adult that would either not want to ride as well or could not because someone needs to watch little Timmy while the rest of the family rides "The Face Melter" hyper-coaster.

I do not think Disney should eliminate development of rides thrill rides entirely, but they have serious capacity issues right now. The attractions that go up need to be guest eaters that nearly every person can ride if they are ever going to get ahead of that.

I am hoping that the Pandora expansion along with capacity increases to Soarin and TSMM will ease the burden just enough to let them take what ever Star Wars expansion comes to WDW in a more thrilling direction vs one size fits all direction. It is a fool's hope, but hope nonetheless.

In regards to the Disney vs US/IOA and construction times....

Disney has no reason to build fast right now. Building fast is expensive, and, the most important factor, it looks horrible on the quarterly reports. Selling spending extra money for a quick turnaround to the stock holders is pretty hard to do when you are on top and money is getting delivered in dump trucks.

On the flip side, US/IOA has every reason to build fast. Prior to Potter, they were in a multi year slump that had them right on the edge of a cliff. They needed a quick turnaround if they were going to survive and in that situation, you spend what you need to in order to make it happen as quick as possible.
 
DVCOwner

DVCOwner

A Long Time DVC Member
POLY LOVER said:
Exactly my point go back to what works and has worked in the past, leading edge tech and animatronics.
Move like turning the main street bakery into a coffe shop and calling it a bakery will not keep the real fans of Disney coming back they will lose the feeling they created years ago trying to outsource the parks assets for a quick buck. It works temporarily but then it fades in the end. What will be the game changer for Disney?
Click to expand...

I guess you have not been on main street and seen the lines waiting to get into the coffee shop. Disney has been using sponsorship starting on day one. Go back and look at the food service on the opening of Disneyland.
 
Chef Mickey

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
WondersOfLife said:
Again.. Universal still took a percentage away from Disney on attendance.
Click to expand...
I'd like your detailed analysis on this.

Since this is WDW forum, let's stick to Orlando parks.

Since Disney grew every Orlando park, this implies the pie is getting larger.

I realize Disney has 4 parks in Orlando and Universal has 2, but Disney still grew more total guests than Universal. I'd argue Disney parks are more at "capacity" than Universal's parks. Growth rates at Disney parks slow down by the law of large numbers and the fact Disney has failed to expand adequately (I'll get to this later). Let's look at raw attendance numbers

IOA: Flat
Universal Studios in Orlando: +1,200,000 (very nice gain)

MK: 4% Growth +750,000 guests
EPCOT: 2% Growth +225,000 guests
HS: 2% Growth +204,000 guests
AK: 2% Growth +202,000 guests

Total WDW Theme park guests added: +1,375,000*
*Numbers rounded

WDW still added about 175,000 more total guests. Yes, more parks, but that's a Disney advantage. If you consider their market position as the decided leader, the fact they're even competing in total guests added speaks to their utter market dominance, particularly in Orlando.

You have to understand, growth rates are much more difficult with larger numbers and the bottom line is always butts in the park, which has Disney still winning in Orlando. Let me give you an example about growth rates. If I have a stock portfolio worth $100,000 and yours is worth $1,000,000, I might want to talk % gains. What really matters in the end? Dollars. I can boast all day about a 30% gain in my portfolio, but mine is still only worth $130,000. If you make a solid 15%, yours would be worth $1,150,000. You made $150,000 and I made $30,000. Who is winning? I had twice the growth rate, but you made 5 times more money.

To say Universal took a percentage away from Disney is quite misleading. Universal had a nice gain on a larger pie with better growth rate, but I just showed you Disney actually hurt Universal more than Universal hurt Disney in Orlando by adding more total guests. Perhaps Disney should have taken even more of the "new" travelers piece of the pie, but I don't think they're worried in Orlando yet. We can talk percentages, growth rates, and other second place math all you want, but Disney is still adding more total guests to its parks in Orlando despite being at capacity.

Disney's attendance domination is even more impressive when one considers fact Disney has literally allowed 3/4 parks to nearly die and still grew attendance and guest spend at all 4 parks.

Frankly, I was shocked Disney added more guests. I thought AK, EPCOT, and HS would NO WAY have any growth at all. The state of those parks should be negative growth, but Disney's dominance is too strong.

Once Disney world adds more themed lands and expands further, you will see attendance growth accelerate and the gap will widen even more. These numbers certainly don't make Disney feel rushed to expand...which we can all plainly see. They are in no hurry and they don't need to be.
 
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Chef Mickey

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
Sidenote: I realize Universal had wonderful growth in Tokyo, making their worldwide growth impressive. I'd argue that this is a separate study because Tokyo is so incredibly crowdeded.

Furthermore, Disney still leads by a significant margin in Tokyo, but those parks simply can't grow anymore without meaningful expansion. I've been to both and you haven't see crowded until you've been to Tokyo, particularly Disney.

My analysis is from and Orlando perspective. I don't believe you can mix markets because it's apples and oranges.
 

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