Iger: Disney will dial back on park discounts in latter part of 2010

misterID

Well-Known Member
Pricing people away from the park has already happened: Parking, tickets and food. That has pushed a lot of people away from the The World already. Now you want them to do it some more? Why do you think they're doing the discounts now? They need more people going to the parks.

Disney will never complain about having too many guests at the park. That's other guests, usually AP's who want an empty park to themselves. What Disney is concerned with is that the people who are going aren't buying anything... Well, you charge too much for it. Too bad. Getting a more afluent crowd isn't going to help business. The difference in losing attendance and selling more merch would not even come close to evening out the difference. Sorry. But it won't. They will lose big time if they try that.

Disney doesn't have the luxury to cater only to the wealthy. Or people who pay more just for the ambiance... :rolleyes:

They decided a long time ago to cater to tourism and "priced out" local medium income families. Now they want those families back. But they want them to spend more money on over priced merch and food. They made their bed, now they get to lie in it.

I've been around the Florida tourism business my whole life and I have never seen anything like pricing people away from your product work. Ever.
 
These disocunts, honestly, are a disservice to to Disney's most loyal customer - DVC owners. Not that there aren't loyal hotel vacationers, but any company will see their buy-in guests as their key demographic. Hence, no new hotels but DVC rooms all over the place.

I do not own DVC, but we do within the family. It is very frustrating to them to see all of these discounts offered to the casual guest while as a loyal customer they see their discounts and benefits taken away. There was a day DVC included park admission - GONE, there was a day DVC included merchandise discounts - GONE, there was a day there were broad and extensive dining discounts - GONE (now there's rotating discounts that you don't even know about far enough in advance to make dining reservations).

No different that cell phones and television, loyal subscribers don't get the deals. But frustrating none the less. I can't imagine it's helping DVC sales, I know when people ask me about my family's ownership I'm honest to say that the current package deals really make the cost analysis more difficult.

Well said. We bought our DVC membership a few years ago because we preferred to stay at the "deluxe" hotels -- including the DVC rooms. We liked them. However, we also realized that if we wanted to stay in those hotels, we couldn't afford to go every year (like we normally do). So, we had to make a choice: decrease our visits to every 2-3 years, or buy DVC so we can go every year. It was a large up-front cost but we realize that we're investing in our long-term vacation plans.

That being said, as JWG pointed out, it is quite frustrating to see Disney so blatantly give out discounts to casual guests and spit in the face of those of us who drank the Kool-Aid ... er ... bought into DVC. While casual guests get deeply discounted vacations, we get our useless perks taken away (used to get 10% off at World of Disney which is gone; used to get free valet parking which is gone, and on and on).

Don't get me wrong: I get it. Disney knows they have us and kudos to them for offering this unique vacation plan. And, because they've got us already, they definitely should try to get more folks into the parks (and potential new DVC investors).

But, like I said, I am not happy with how Disney is basically throwing this whole discount thing in our faces.

Judy
 

CRO-Magnum

Active Member
Profitability Today Does Not Guarantee Profitability Tomorrow

You probably know this but I want to make sure you know I wasn't calling you an idiot. Rather the "Bigger Idiot Theory" is an expression used to explain the stock market and other transactions where price is influenced heavily by opinion vs. fact.

This is typically true of cutting services while charging the same to make more money, not charging more to be more profitable. Very different animals.
I believe Disney is the exception. You are correct Disney will make more money by excluding certain people which is already a fact.
However there has been a steadily growing tide of anti-corporate behavior when people feel companies are profiting too greatly. Look at the Oil & Gas industry, Banking, Pharamceuticals, Insurance; each is a great example. Every company should seek to maximixe profits but beyond a certain point doing so damages their reputations and when done collectively often leads to government regulation (not suggesting, just showing the logical end point). Disney is in the cross hairs too.

And Disney is a pyramid brand where products and services all work to reinforce each other. As such a threat to one is a threat to all.

Check out some of the Disneyland boards where there are constantly discussions about the annual passes being too cheap-- overcrowding the park, and ruining the experience, which chases away some people. So why not chase away some people with higher prices instead, creating a better experience for you guests, while requiring less staff which also boosts margins?
First Disney would love to overcrowd the park every day if they could. If they could raise profits with fewer guests that would work for a while but they would then do everything they could, probably via discounting, to cram extra people into the park.

Also Disneyland's target demographic is much different. Disneyland survives on teens much more than WDW. They don't necessarily like it, but they recognize it and price accordingly. Without return visits by teens via annual passes they would be in trouble many years, especially with Disney's California.

A personal example, there are three grocery stores within 5 minutes of me, I shop at the most expensive one because the experience is much better (nicer interior, knowledgeable staff) and I feel its worth it. It doesn't make me an idiot that I choose to shop there, I know of the cheaper alternatives.

Now, if I lose my job, I may not be able to shop there any more, or I may just decide at some point that its not worth the premium for me personally. Neither of those mean that the grocery store won't go on being profitable. Understand?

Agreed. However if you and a number of other people lose their jobs then the premium store sees a drop in traffic. What does it do? It can try discounts to get you back, but you are likely preconditioned to expect higher prices and therefore why make the longer trip when there are alternatives. Worse, perhaps you find that one of the closer stores is acceptable, perhaps better. When you do find a job how likely are you to go out of your way? That is my point. It's not about being profitable, it's about trying to be profitable today at the expense of profits tomorrow.

Our local premium grocery store has made sure to reduce prices on core staples (milk, eggs, bread, etc.) just as soon as the economy took a hit. Not discounts, price reductions. Why? So when people lose their jobs they don't look elsewhere for the staples, so they don't find acceptable alternatives.

Being profitable on a per item sold basis is great, as long as you have people buying. It's meaningless if nobody enters your store.

From your earlier post it sounds like thats the situation you're in with WDW, it just isn't worth the premium anymore. That's fine. But it doesn't mean Disney isn't profitable or that they are incompetent just because they don't discount to get your business back.

I would suggest to you that there are scores of people at Disney that know quite a bit more about economics than you (or I for that matter) and have access to significantly more data.

Not that they can't do any wrong, but they deserve some respect.

I've never argued Disney isn't profitable at their theme parks. I feel Disney is nearing a tipping point betweeen scarcity and value. Their profits should be plowed back into the parks to a greater degree than today instead of being used as the cash cow to prop up other portions of the company which seem to always be struggligng. Disney says they're discounting due to the economy. I believe it's flawed logic because the discounts are far greater, in my opinion, than required to reflect the market.

I appreciate your comments and I very well could be wrong. I just see data lining up to indicate Disney will reach profit optimums at a degree of risk to their brand that I feel they either don't see, won't admit, or are hiding from their board. I was a cast member and have been a consultant on numerous projects over the years from strategy including market research to IT and even Imagineering. Of my friends, some of whom are current and former executives, most agree with me. Time will tell.
 

DisneyNut2007

Active Member
...but he's obviously out of touch with basic economics. Disney isn't discounting because of the economy. They're discounting because they're too expensive to begin with. As prices rise at some point demand will fall (supply, demand economics), and when that happens companies discount. In reality Disney should be reducing their prices just as many car models are now less expensive than a year or two ago, 529 college plan admin fees are cheaper, housing, food, etc.

As a family we have decided to reduce our trips from 2-3 to 1 per year and use the savings for additional alternate vacations. The net result is a 50% reduction in revenue for Disney from our family. In addition as hotel costs rose we would pre or post-append days at off-site hotels. On our visit earlier this year my children fell in love with an off-site hotel at less than half the cost. Thus our spending profile, sacrosanct to Disney since we are true Disneyholics, is reduced by another 50% because at six people we had to get two rooms everywhere on-site.

Why has our behavior changed?

We found the value for the dollar decreased every visit. Simply put Disney does not reinvest enough in WDW. Each trip provides diminishing returns as the adventures become repetitive if the time span between repeats is too short (pretty obvious, right?). Going once a year we found balances our desire to go and relive old adventures with our disappointment in finding few or no new adventures. The high and rising costs have forced us to analyze and optimize.

Walt Disney understood economics. He knew if he made the parks accessible it would attract families, his target demographic, and people would never be forced to scrutinize the expense. He knew going to Disneyland repeatedly was an emotional decision which would not surive scrutiny.

My daughters have already agreed they'd like to save all of our vacation money for two years and go to Europe. They are interested in going to Disneyland Paris for "a day or two", all but elminating Disney's footprint in my wallet.

Too bad Bob but my 12, 10, and 9 year old are on to your game. Time for you to go back and take Econ 101 and fire those idiot Ivy League MBA's you have in your strategy group!

CRO-Magnum, you are WRONG and you know it! :mad:

Leave poor Iger alone! :mad:

End of story.
 

Computer Magic

Well-Known Member
Isn't DVC a discount to WDW? You are not paying full prices as other guest. Yes you are locked into 50 years but you are not paying full prices.

The sad part is Disney is taking advantage of those that bought into DVC. Disney has you locked into 50 years. A great marketing scheme. But just because you don't own a DVC doesn't mean you are not loyal to Disney. There are many people loyal to Disney and don't buy into DVC. I have read some peopel say the DVC has hurt the average Disney guest.
 

surfsupdon

Well-Known Member
Interesting take on the DVC. That's a reason we hae neer bought: First you never own anything coompletely, and second, we have been getting discounts like crazy even before the poor economy with AP rates and other things.


Yeah, we should have bought into Old Key West that initial year. But we didn't. And that's fine now.
 
Isn't DVC a discount to WDW? You are not paying full prices as other guest. Yes you are locked into 50 years but you are not paying full prices.

The sad part is Disney is taking advantage of those that bought into DVC. Disney has you locked into 50 years. A great marketing scheme. But just because you don't own a DVC doesn't mean you are not loyal to Disney. There are many people loyal to Disney and don't buy into DVC. I have read some peopel say the DVC has hurt the average Disney guest.

Technically DVC folks do enjoy a "discounted" rate off the rack rate, although you really don't see that discount until about 7 years into it. That, however, is where the "discount" (currently) ends. As someone pointed out, years ago, you use to get free admission into the parks, then that was taken away. Now we get about $100 off an Annual Pass. That may work out or, depending on when you can vacation, may not.

I completely agree that just because someone isn't a DVC-er doesn't mean they share the same loyalty as those of us who are. Sorry if I implied that -- didn't mean to. I'm curious how people think the DVC has hurt the average guest? (Personally, I don't have an opinion on that either way.)

Judy
 

Computer Magic

Well-Known Member
Technically DVC folks do enjoy a "discounted" rate off the rack rate, although you really don't see that discount until about 7 years into it. That, however, is where the "discount" (currently) ends. As someone pointed out, years ago, you use to get free admission into the parks, then that was taken away. Now we get about $100 off an Annual Pass. That may work out or, depending on when you can vacation, may not.

I completely agree that just because someone isn't a DVC-er doesn't mean they share the same loyalty as those of us who are. Sorry if I implied that -- didn't mean to. I'm curious how people think the DVC has hurt the average guest? (Personally, I don't have an opinion on that either way.)

Judy
I think it is unfair that Disney takes advantage of DVC. That is what kept me from signing onto DVC. Disney gets the upper hand and can take things away. Disney has done the same with non-DVC, but it is easier to take your money else where.

It seems Disney discounts whether its DVC, free dinning or codes has hurt the quality of Disney. I know I'm guility of the free dinning discount as its a good way to enjoy Disney and receive free food. Sadly, the quality of the food and the ADR filling up quickly is the down side., ie reduce magic, oe value added.

Disney needs to return to getting repeat visitors by using magic instead of discounts. I didn't mind paying full price when I received the magic.
 

JimboJones123

Well-Known Member
We have a 17 night trip planned for next Thanksgiving.

We DO expect a discount.

We need a $1000 discount or free dining.

If our expected discount does not come, our trip will be 5 nights. Sorry, but we canturn around the additional costs for a second vacation.

In 2008, the free dining dates were pushed back 2 weeks from the bounceback offer. Guess what, we cancelled our 11 night trip and dining and went to SoCal instead.

So yes, I expect the discounts. If I do not get them, the value does not fit my family's budget.

Does this make me mad? No, not really, we just value WDW as something that does not fit us.

We are not the only ones.

Free water parks in winter is not a good discount.
 

NCState

Member
I agree we are planning an 8 night trip in 2010 but if we can't get a discount or free dining we will have to cut back to a 5 night trip. Just thinking of the air fair, rental car, hotel, park tickets and food we have to have a break to even go.
 
I've been around the Florida tourism business my whole life and I have never seen anything like pricing people away from your product work. Ever.

What would you call the wildly successful Discovery Cove at SeaWorld?

A concept, I might add, that Disney has been wanting to replicate for years.
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
What would you call the wildly successful Discovery Cove at SeaWorld?

A concept, I might add, that Disney has been wanting to replicate for years.

So, you're comparing that to the whole of Disneyworld... :lol:

Don't you think if they thought that would work they would have done it already?

Sorry to break it to you, but they won't be catering only to people who enjoy paying extra at grocery stores just because they like shopping at high end stores any time soon. They need Win Dixie shoppers, too.
 
So, you're comparing that to the whole of Disneyworld... :lol:

No. Reread the post, including the quoted text. (especially the "Ever.")


Don't you think if they thought that would work they would have done it already?

Have and done. There's a reason the deluxe resorts exist. A nice experience that is worth it to some, not worth it to others. Plus, as you said "Pricing people away from the park has already happened: Parking, tickets and food." (and for the record I never said that they should raise their prices even more)

Sorry to break it to you, but they won't be catering only to people who enjoy paying extra at grocery stores just because they like shopping at high end stores any time soon. They need Win Dixie shoppers, too.

This has nothing to do with me, so no need to be sorry. I'm simply offering another perspective, and trying to explain that Disney may well know what they're doing in contrast to the "discount / Disney is overpriced" folks.

I'll say this one other way, it's not surprising that many on a Disney fan forum want cheaper experiences.

Purchasers want lower prices, it's what's in their interest. They may offer carrots like "oh, well if the product is cheaper I'll buy more" which may be true, or may not. But the seller has their own interests and perspective.

All I've been saying. Thanks.
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
Giraffe Lounge said:
What would you call the wildly successful Discovery Cove at SeaWorld?

A concept, I might add, that Disney has been wanting to replicate for years.

I don't know what I misread here. By this and your previous posts, it sounds like you wanted Disney to duplicate it.

Yes, they have raised prices in the past to pad their profits. Now its backfired. Those huge profits are down. So doing it even more would not help. Matter of fact it would hurt. That's what I've been saying all along in this thread. I didn't start the "pricing people out" debate, I'm just responding to it. If I've somehow misinterpreted what your point is I apologize... But if its pricing a certain class of people out to do away with discounts, and cater to a more affluent crowd that's not a very intelligent plan.

Yes, they do have deluxe resorts. But they also have moderate/economical resorts as well. Which do you think they have a harder time filling?

Disney is doing what they have to.
 

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