I injury at Raglan Road

[UNCgolf]

doesn't matter it happend in Raglan.

Premises liability isn't strict. They're not automatically liable for anything that happens on property.

 

[JohnD]

I was at Raglan Road on July 18. I was sitting on the bar stool so I could see the dancers better. Unfortunately, when I turned around to see them, my foot slipped on the floor as I stepped down to stand. I fell. Paramedics came and told my son to put me in the car and take me to the emergency room. When I screamed out in pain, paramedics were recalled by the Disney officer and I was transported to ORMC. My c1 neck vertebra was broken. Who do I report this to at Disney? The Raglan Road mgr called my son the next day to see how I was, but I have not heard from anyone at WDW. I called guest services and they did not have any record of an incident that evening. I looked at some website that said I should file a report, but where does it go? No, I have not contacted a lawyer.

Contact Raglan directly. This isn't a Disney issue. However, I'm being honest here, I don't think you have much of a case. I sympathize with your injuries but it sounds like you slipped because you weren't looking. Accidents happen and I'm sorry.

Raglan Road Irish Pub​

Disney Springs™ The Landing
1640 E Buena Vista Drive
Lake Buena Vista
Florida
32830
USA

Tel: (407) 938-0300
Email: hello@raglanroad.com

Mailing Address
11476 S. Apopka Vineland Rd.
Suite 100 Orlando,
FL 32836.

 

[LittleBuford]

Premises liability isn't strict. They're not automatically liable for anything that happens on property.

I've found this thread by turns enlightening and confusing. Some apparently knowledgeable people are saying that you always need a lawyer and/or that the establishment is automatically liable, while others are saying that you don't and that it isn't. I think I'm less clear on the issue now than I was several pages ago! (ETA: And by issue, I don't mean the OP's particular case. I'm talking about what one should do more generally.)

 

[UNCgolf]

I've found this thread by turns enlightening and confusing. Some apparently knowledgeable people are saying that you always need a lawyer and/or that the establishment is automatically liable, while others are saying that you don't and that it isn't. I think I'm less clear on the issue now than I was several pages ago! (ETA: And by issue, I don't mean the OP's particular case. I'm talking about what one should do more generally.)

They absolutely could be liable, but the facts at hand matter. If you trip on your own feet and break your wrist falling in a restaurant, they're likely not going to be liable for that. There's really nothing they could do to prevent that injury and nothing they did caused it. If you slip because a server spilled something on the floor and they didn't clean it up/rope it off, then they're much more likely to have some liability.

It's also possible that they have insurance that just writes a check to avoid any potential problems even if they likely weren't liable rather than taking it through a full legal process, but that's really a separate thing.

 

[LittleBuford]

They absolutely could be liable, but the facts at hand matter. If you trip on your own feet and break your wrist falling in a restaurant, they're likely not going to be liable for that. There's really nothing they could do to prevent that injury and nothing they did caused it. If you slip because a server spilled something on the floor and they didn't clean it up/rope it off, then they're much more likely to have some liability.

This was my understanding going into the thread, which is why I'm somewhat confused by the posts saying that the establishment automatically bears (some) responsibility and that a lawyer is essential in all cases. Why would someone need a lawyer if they are not assigning any kind of blame?

It's also possible that they have insurance that just writes a check to avoid any potential problems even if they likely weren't liable rather than taking it through a full legal process, but that's really a separate thing.

This I didn't know (and wouldn't have guessed) before reading this thread.

 

[UNCgolf]

This I didn't know (and wouldn't have guessed) before reading this thread.

It's certainly not something you'd want to rely on, and most insurance companies aren't going to do that, but it does happen from time to time -- more likely if it's a relatively small amount though, where the cost to fight may be more than just writing the check.

 

[Demarke]

It's certainly not something you'd want to rely on, and most insurance companies aren't going to do that, but it does happen from time to time -- more likely if it's a relatively small amount though, where the cost to fight may be more than just writing the check.

Yep, and often depends on how likely the insurer or insured think that settlement could encourage copycats. Some places may throw $500-$2000ish at something questionable to get it to go away, because getting their lawyers involved would almost certainly cost more. Some places like Walmart with cameras everywhere, frequent publicity surrounding lawsuits/claims, and a high risk of being targeted by unscrupulous people will fight every questionable claim with a hardline because they don’t want to encourage a flood of new “injuries” when people find out they are just handing out $1000+ checks.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

This was my understanding going into the thread, which is why I'm somewhat confused by the posts saying that the establishment automatically bears (some) responsibility and that a lawyer is essential in all cases. Why would someone need a lawyer if they are not assigning any kind of blame?


This I didn't know (and wouldn't have guessed) before reading this thread.

Just because you consult a lawyer does not automatically say you’re intending to sue…it’s absolutely correct, if you trip and fall in an establishment, that establishment is not automatically liable. You are consulting an attorney to protect yourself and your interests. If you fell in a restaurant, and it was found that they were liable and you settled “out of court” for a couple of bucks for your medical bills, that’s fine… no harm, no foul POTENTIALLY…but if six weeks, six months down the road, you develop problems due to that injury and you settled, if you didn’t read the fine print of the settlement, in all likelihood, you signed your future rights away when you endorsed the check.
As I said, you don’t get 2 bites of the apple… trying to be the “good guy” could end up biting you in the ar*e as you say…lol

 

[LittleBuford]

Just because you consult a lawyer does not automatically say you’re intending to sue…it’s absolutely correct, if you trip and fall in an establishment, that establishment is not automatically liable. You are consulting an attorney to protect yourself and your interests. If you fell in a restaurant, and it was found that they were liable and you settled “out of court” for a couple of bucks for your medical bills, that’s fine… no harm, no foul POTENTIALLY…but if six weeks, six months down the road, you develop problems due to that injury and you settled, if you didn’t read the fine print of the settlement, in all likelihood, you signed your future rights away when you endorsed the check.
As I said, you don’t get 2 bites of the apple… trying to be the “good guy” could end up biting you in the ar*e as you say…lol

It may be easier to convey what I'm confused about if I present a hypothetical example (I'm not saying any of this maps onto the OP's circumstances).

Let's say I lose my footing in a restaurant and suffer a very bad injury as a result. The fall is simply an accident, and I do not hold anyone or anything else at all responsible for its occurrence: I am absolutely clear on the fact that no outside factors or individuals were at play. Why, then, would I need to consult a lawyer? I totally understand the importance of legal counsel in cases where there is uncertainty regarding liability, but if the injured party is in no doubt that what they suffered was a blameless accident, what would be the point in involving a lawyer?

These are genuine questions. I may be missing something!

 

[Smiley/OCD]

It may be easier to convey what I'm confused about if I present a hypothetical example (I'm not saying any of this maps onto the OP's circumstances).

Let's say I lose my footing in a restaurant and suffer a very bad injury as a result. The fall is simply an accident, and I do not hold anyone or anything else at all responsible for its occurrence: I am absolutely clear on the fact that no outside factors or individuals were at play. Why, then, would I need to consult a lawyer? I totally understand the importance of legal counsel in cases where there is uncertainty regarding liability, but if the injured party is in no doubt that what they suffered was a blameless accident, what would be the point in involving a lawyer?

These are genuine questions. I may be missing something!

That’s a great example…if you fall and KNOW it’s your fault, then absolutely, you don’t need an attorney. I have MS and have foot drop and tripped and fell coming off Figment in December. Other than my frustration of falling with my cane (and a little blow to my ego), I was fine. Other guests wanted to call a CM. There was no need to. Now IF those same guests saw something on the carpet, a rip, obstruction, spill, etc that MAY have contributed to my fall, it would’ve been in MY and my family’s best interest to, at the very least, have an incident report filled out so there’s at the VERY least a paper trail.
Let’s say there was something a guest saw on the floor, I didn’t follow up and after I got home, had a problem with my shoulder. I go to the doctor at home and find out I sustained a small rotator cuff injury when I fell. I’ll NEVER have any chance of (at the very least) of Disney paying for the MRI, treatment, etc.
At least, if an incident report was made at the time (AND I would’ve gotten those guests names and contact info), I protected myself. I may NEVER needed to use that info, but at least I had it.
I don’t know how old you are, I’m almost 58 and have college but not an MBA, but I have a “streets smarts” MBA… like carpenters always say…measure twice, cut once…for your own benefit, CYA…cover your a**.

 

[LittleBuford]

That’s a great example…if you fall and KNOW it’s your fault, then absolutely, you don’t need an attorney. I have MS and have foot drop and tripped and fell coming off Figment in December. Other than my frustration of falling with my cane (and a little blow to my ego), I was fine. Other guests wanted to call a CM. There was no need to. Now IF those same guests saw something on the carpet, a rip, obstruction, spill, etc that MAY have contributed to my fall, it would’ve been in MY and my family’s best interest to, at the very least, have an incident report filled out so there’s at the VERY least a paper trail.
Let’s say there was something a guest saw on the floor, I didn’t follow up and after I got home, had a problem with my shoulder. I go to the doctor at home and find out I sustained a small rotator cuff injury when I fell. I’ll NEVER have any chance of (at the very least) of Disney paying for the MRI, treatment, etc.
At least, if an incident report was made at the time (AND I would’ve gotten those guests names and contact info), I protected myself. I may NEVER needed to use that info, but at least I had it.
I don’t know how old you are, I’m almost 58 and have college but not an MBA, but I have a “streets smarts” MBA… like carpenters always say…measure twice, cut once…for your own benefit, CYA…cover your a**.

Thanks. This makes a lot of sense!

I am sorry to hear about your fall in December and hope the pain wore off quickly.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Thanks. This makes a lot of sense!

I am sorry to hear about your fall in December and hope the pain wore off quickly.

Physically, yes, ego wise, it took a tad bit longer…lol

 

[lazyboy97o]

It may be easier to convey what I'm confused about if I present a hypothetical example (I'm not saying any of this maps onto the OP's circumstances).

Let's say I lose my footing in a restaurant and suffer a very bad injury as a result. The fall is simply an accident, and I do not hold anyone or anything else at all responsible for its occurrence: I am absolutely clear on the fact that no outside factors or individuals were at play. Why, then, would I need to consult a lawyer? I totally understand the importance of legal counsel in cases where there is uncertainty regarding liability, but if the injured party is in no doubt that what they suffered was a blameless accident, what would be the point in involving a lawyer?

These are genuine questions. I may be missing something!

You may not know that the establishment actually has liability. What if you lost your footing where the floor materials change? How many people are aware that there are codes that dictate how tall a transition between flooring materials can be and it’s shape?

Seeking some advice doesn’t have to mean you are trying to shift blame and not take responsibility, especially with a serious injury. As was mentioned earlier, it could just be to ensure you leave the door open to new knowledge and developments.

 

[LittleBuford]

You may not know that the establishment actually has liability. What if you lost your footing where the floor materials change? How many people are aware that there are codes that dictate how tall a transition between flooring materials can be and it’s shape?

Seeking some advice doesn’t have to mean you are trying to shift blame and not take responsibility, especially with a serious injury. As was mentioned earlier, it could just be to ensure you leave the door open to new knowledge and developments.

As I said in my earlier post, I understand the need to consult a lawyer if there is any uncertainty. The scenario I offered involved someone who knew their accident to be nothing more than bad luck.

 

[flynnibus]

Let's say I lose my footing in a restaurant and suffer a very bad injury as a result. The fall is simply an accident, and I do not hold anyone or anything else at all responsible for its occurrence: I am absolutely clear on the fact that no outside factors or individuals were at play. Why, then, would I need to consult a lawyer?

Because you have drawn your own conclusions without necessarily knowing the different rules and responsibilities. In your example, you are acting as your own legal consul. That isn't always the best decision. By consulting with someone actually versed in the topic, the rules and liabilities, you can come to a more accurate conclusion.

 

[Chi84]

Because you have drawn your own conclusions without necessarily knowing the different rules and responsibilities. In your example, you are acting as your own legal consul. That isn't always the best decision. By consulting with someone actually versed in the topic, the rules and liabilities, you can come to a more accurate conclusion.

Some people consult with a lawyer because they’re smart enough to know that they don’t know what they don’t know. Many times an attorney will advise a person that they don’t have a viable claim and that’s the end of it. There’s no harm in ascertaining your legal rights.

 

[lazyboy97o]

As I said in my earlier post, I understand the need to consult a lawyer if there is any uncertainty. The scenario I offered involved someone who knew their accident to be nothing more than bad luck.

Again, you don’t know what you don’t know and in the moment you may not notice something that is a factor. Did you know about the maximums for floor transitions? Do you know and recognize when a floor exceeds the maximum allowable cross slope? Would you know if a decorative wall tile was improperly used as a floor tile?

Somewhat related, but if you look at things like ADA violation lawsuits against small businesses you’ll hear surprise from the owners because the condition for which they are being sued has existed for years and they had not received complaints from customers with disabilities. A big part of the reason for this is because the people an accessible design criteria is designed to assist do not themselves know the actual criteria, especially with some violations that are incredibly common. The people visited the business, may have been frustrated but didn’t say or do anything because they didn’t know the business was at fault.

 

[LittleBuford]

Again, you don’t know what you don’t know and in the moment you may not notice something that is a factor. Did you know about the maximums for floor transitions? Do you know and recognize when a floor exceeds the maximum allowable cross slope? Would you know if a decorative wall tile was improperly used as a floor tile?

Somewhat related, but if you look at things like ADA violation lawsuits against small businesses you’ll hear surprise from the owners because the condition for which they are being sued has existed for years and they had not received complaints from customers with disabilities. A big part of the reason for this is because the people an accessible design criteria is designed to assist do not themselves know the actual criteria, especially with some violations that are incredibly common. The people visited the business, may have been frustrated but didn’t say or do anything because they didn’t know the business was at fault.

If I felt 100% sure that I fell purely by accident (as has happened to me numerous times in my life), I personally would not consult a lawyer. Others may feel differently, and that’s fine!

 

[LittleBuford]

Because you have drawn your own conclusions without necessarily knowing the different rules and responsibilities. In your example, you are acting as your own legal consul. That isn't always the best decision. By consulting with someone actually versed in the topic, the rules and liabilities, you can come to a more accurate conclusion.

Some people consult with a lawyer because they’re smart enough to know that they don’t know what they don’t know. Many times an attorney will advise a person that they don’t have a viable claim and that’s the end of it. There’s no harm in ascertaining your legal rights.

It’s rather insulting to my intelligence to suggest that I’m incapable of deciding for myself if I fell purely by accident or because of outside factors. Were I in any doubt, I would indeed seek advice, but that’s not the scenario I outlined.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If I felt 100% sure that I fell purely by accident (as has happened to me numerous times in my life), I personally would not consult a lawyer. Others may feel differently, and that’s fine!

You have incurred serious injuries from a fall numerous times in your life? Nobody is saying to go find a layer ever time you lose your footing for a second.

Again, how could you be 100% certain? You notice the height and shape of every flooring transition you encounter? You can feel cross slopes? You can feel insufficient slip coefficients? There are incredibly small things that are in place because they do contribute to safety. Speaking to a lawyer doesn’t mean you’re sending someone down there to go find the smallest tiniest variance from standards, but because someone else may recognize something you did not.

It’s rather insulting to my intelligence to suggest that I’m incapable of deciding for myself if I fell purely by accident or because of outside factors. Were I in any doubt, I would indeed seek advice, but that’s not the scenario I outlined.

It’s not a question of intelligence. Not having specialize knowledge outside one’s field of specialization is not a lack of intelligence. Not noticing some small contributing factor is not a lack of intelligence. Pointing out that you do not in fact have absolute knowledge of a scenario is not an insult. There’s an old saying “A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client” and it’s not because lawyers lack intelligence.