I feel like stirring the pot....

[PeeplMoovr]

I'm with grizz on this one. Horizons was EPCOT to me, and I'd prefer to have it back.
Seeing as how JII, WoM, and KK are gone, once they drive the nail in SE's coffin, EPCOT as I once knew it and loved it will be no more.
I still love the park, but man those were the days of EPCOT. Now I spend more time in World Showcase than I did back then. Future World just doesn't offer to me what it once did.
Just my $.02

 

[MKCustodial]

Originally posted by objr
I would have liked to see Horizons and M:S stand side by side...there is no reason why new attractions should replace the old ones...I know that other issues led to the down fall of Horizons....but I wish I could ride it atleast one more time...

:brick:

I'm yet to ride Space, but you do make a great point: with the "blessing of space" we all know WDW has, why oh why do they still find necessary to tear down perfectly good attractions to build new ones. Specially when some of those new ones won't stand the test of time... (*coughTestTrackcough*)

 

[Fido]

Originally posted by PeeplMoovr
I'm with grizz on this one. Horizons was EPCOT to me, and I'd prefer to have it back.
Seeing as how JII, WoM, and KK are gone, once they drive the nail in SE's coffin, EPCOT as I once knew it and loved it will be no more.
I still love the park, but man those were the days of EPCOT. Now I spend more time in World Showcase than I did back then. Future World just doesn't offer to me what it once did.
Just my $.02

Me too!

 

[meeko_33785]

Originally posted by mkt
<img src="http://www.cranberrylane.com/images/stir-scraps-in-pot-web.jpg">

I'll be honest... I wasn't a fan of Horizons... but I am one of Mission: Space... so there. And before ANYONE dares to call me a thrill junkie... my favorite Disney attraction to this date is still Dreamflight... far from a thrill ride.

I'm with mkt on this one. I was never a Horizons fan and, in a way, it always seemed like a joke to me. It's always praised that it was a "sequel to Carousel of Progress", but personally I thought that concept was absurd. What's the point of having a sequel of a theme park attraction in a park that is only a monorail ride away from the original attraction. IMO, they could have done better and come up with a more original concept insteed of meerly bringing back another concept.

As for Mission: SPACE, I find it an improvement. I admit that some work needs to be done on how they present the storyline, but I thought the ride portion was, IMO, the best attraction I have ever experienced at EPCOT- and I don't even usually like thrill rides!

 

[One Lil Spark]

My vote goes to Horizons.

 

[HorizonsMan]

Originally posted by WDW*babe
Care to share?

On my 19th b-day my custodial managers found out that i liked horizons and presented me with hip e-stop from it. This was the device that would be worn by the cms so that if something went wrong they could press teh button on their side instead of running to the controls, if you go to the TTA you can still see one in use there. It enables teh cms to walk the track. Ok, great topic Zac

 

[General Grizz]

Originally posted by wilary
Didn't the Horizons building have major structural problems? So, regardless of where they put M:S, Horizons would have come down anyway, right?

Anyway -- has anyone else

noticed that the Horizons logo is on the hub of the space wheel in the M:S queue area?  I was very happy to see that. A small, but effective tribute. Much like Mr Toad handing the deed to Owl. [/B][/QUOTE] 

1. I have yet to see the structural problems in any official kind of report.  Disney wanted to get rid of Horizons. . . in fact, another "excuse" to close it was that it promoted GE too much.

2. Yes...I like the logo.  But the space wheel (a.k.a. giant drying machine - seriously!) apparently is the factor that really makes M:S guests hurl if they do.  Think about it.  Standing there for 50 minutes in line.  Staring at this rotating massive object the whole time with nothing else but general blackspace.

While M:S has thrill re-rideability, I think most of us are referring to the attention to detail.  Sure computer art and whatever...but there's something about the physical being (ever-so-popular in the original EPCOT spirit) that appeals to guests.  Think of the successful attractions - Pirates, Haunted Mansion, American Adventure: they all have it.  Always something new, while it invites you back as a "warm, family" attraction... almost like a mother.

And I wouldn't say M:S has that much of a familiar score.  And they DO have a theme song...but personally, it sounded to me like I was on hold for Eckerds or something when I heard it. 

I'll just say I wouldn't expect anyone to be humming a theme out the door.  Same thing for Test Track.  And JIYI for one point.  I would say Food Rocks. 

It's all quite disturbing.

I think another thing is...Mission Space can be easily replaced by a new, more technological and thrilling ride without being missed.  It doesn't have that much you can cling to that's unique if the thrill level is going up.  That doesn't work for Horizons - Horizons was an individual - unique in all aspects, its technology only supporting the role of education, artistry, and inspiration.

 

[dxwwf3]

My vote would DEFINATLEY go to Horizons. And I'm a 19 year old thrill junkie :lol: While I certainly think Mission Space is good I just don't enjoy it as much as Horizons. I mean Horizons WAS the biggest and most elaborate of any of the Disney slow moving rides (IMO). Horizons had it all. The music was perfect all over the attraction and the large sets and screens, to me, are more impressive than the effects on Mission Space. And like I said earlier I really do like Mission Space and it is my favorite thing at the current Epcot but I really don't think it's that thrilling and it really doesn't have the re-rideability of something like Tower of Terror or Spiderman. But to me there is NOTHING that can compare to the Epcot of my early childhood. I just hate I'm only 19 and I do not remember as much of it as others do. A late 80's-early 90's Epcot is my favorite theme park of all time. I really wish I could relive those days (even though I also love the current Future World too).

 

[Walter]

You can probably tell my answer if you look around my avatar and signature.

In fact, this will sound weird, but I would trade anything at WDW for Horizons. Yes, ANYTHING! I'm not including entire parks, but I think that you get what I mean. Yes, Horizons had it all. Nothing will ever be better, or even ever approace it. The best has already came and passed. Horizons is the only attraaction that I would ever call "perfect".

If anything, I would trade it for Mission: Space. That, or the current JIYI, or Body Wars. Yeah, I know that there isn't enough space there, but this is all imaginatory and hypothetical.

 

[Irrawaddy Erik]

My vote goes for Horizons. Although I am not a thrill junky I do like M:S for the thrill but that is it. Horizons is my first memory of WDW. What can I say I was a EPCOT Center kid. The memory is the family in space.

"Mom look I'm flying. Why don't you try?"

 

[Redvette]

The problem with the future is that it rapidly becomes the past. When Horizons was new in 83 it was cutting edge, and it was fabulous. My wife and I rode three times in a row, back to back, just so that we could do all three endings, and to see if we could time it so that the JBL's were pumping out the 18hz fundamental when we were centered in the middle of the IMAX screens. In subsequent trips we always went and enjoyed the ride, but it aged each time, and towards the end in 2001 we knew its time had come.

The option was to rebuild or replace. I wish that they would have done the same ride from a 2005 perpspective and given us another 20 years. But, if they would have upgraded it, today there would be a bunch of people complaining, that it wasn't as good, so I guess it was a no win situation.

I liked and miss the long rides. If I stand in a long line, I want more than a three minute ride, I want an experience.

 

[Dr Albert Falls]

For crying out loud...

Mission:Space DID NOT REPLACE Horizons!!!

Horizons had begun its death an entire DECADE before M:S opened its doors-- and five years before anyone even dreamed up M:S.

According to Disney publications and Disney's lawsuit against the M:S contractor, the idea for a centrifuge ride originated in 1998.

General Electric pulled its sponsorship of Horizons in late 1993.

Disney continued to operate Horizons until late 1994.

For AN ENTIRE YEAR the ride was closed. (Not even Timekeeper has gone a whole year gathering cobwebs)

In late 1995, Horizons reopened to compensate for the rennovations of Universe of Energy and World of Motion. (After the rennovations, the ride was open on a sporatic, seasonal basis.)

On January 9, 1999-- Horizons closed for good.

(Most of the above information can be found at the Epcot Discovery Center website http://www.intercot.com/edc/ )

As much as us WDW enthusiasts loved Horizons, the non-existant lines, poor guest feedback, and skyrocketing maintenence costs ultimately sealed the attraction's fate.

I'm certain that if GE was still a sponsor, or if the ride was generating the same positive guest response as The Haunted Mansion it would still be open today.... and M:S would be sitting on a different plot of land.

Just as we cannot blame "Future Attraction X" for the demise of 20,000 Leagues, or "Future Attraction Y" for the permanent closure of Timekeeper, you cannot hold a grudge against Mission:Space and its creators.

 

[Main Street USA]

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls
Just as we cannot blame "Future Attraction X" for the demise of 20,000 Leagues, or "Future Attraction Y" for the permanent closure of Timekeeper, you cannot hold a grudge against Mission:Space and its creators.

I agree with most of your post, and I think almost all of us Horizons lovers do. I certainly don't think that they tore down Horizons in order to put up Mission: Space. I didn't see anyone "blaming" Mission: Space. I only read that people simply prefer a more completely themed and immersive experience such as Horizons.

I rode M:S 4 times during my last trip, and I loved it, so I'm not even knocking the attraction. BUT, as Grizz posted, I won't be walking out of M:S humming a theme song. Heck, I didn't even notice ANY theme song, and I was paying close attention. Many seem to underestimate the EXTREME IMPORTANCE of music when it comes to adding drama, and dragging every last bit of possible emotion out of a scene or situation.

I just seems that the EPCOT that once was has taken a dramatic turn towards becoming another Magic Kingdom park full of rides. WDW doesn't need another MK. The MK they have cannot be topped. The whole point when EPCOT opened was that it was a completely new type of theme park. Today, that is becoming buried in attractions that lack a good story.

Test Track? Believe it or not, I think it has a decent little theme, but it isn't immersive. I feel like I'm inside a building at Epcot, not in another little world, which is how I felt in EVERY SINGLE ORIGINAL EPCOT PAVILLION. It also lacks the solid theme music.

Mission: Space? Well, I must say, Disney certainly pulled off what they set out to do, and they did it well. But man, they really crapped out when it came to remembering the simple things. They spent all of their money and time on the complicated technology of this ride, but forgot to add an truly immersive story. Actually, I saw the fact that space cadets were only doing a little "training" as being a tad disappointing. And then, again what may be the most important, the MUSIC. Argh, add an awesome score for goodness sake. If you don't want to spend the time to make a good one, use the old Horizons stuff. It was beautiful, people loved it, and it fits perfectly.

As if you couldn't tell, I'm passionate about my childhood memories. Keep EPCOT different. Not everyone will like it, but at least it'll still be an original concept and idea.

 

[General Grizz]

Albert -- I don't think a lot of EPCOT's guests are upset that Horizons closed so much as how much less in quality its replacement holds.

Therefore, a lot of guests would rather have Horizons than Mission Space, but that does not mean they would not have welcomed a replacement that catered to their tastes (songs, quality, etc etc.).

I always envisioned a brand new kind of Horizons experience where we'd be docked at a different training center: ISTC, perhaps, then a Soarin' over the desert (after all, I don't know if Soarin' over California will discuss symbiosis :lol: ), and perhaps some undersea area. Almost like Walt's World Fair...the "Disney" show...then the ever-popular post show.

 

[bamboo7]

Originally posted by mkt
Dreamflight... far from a thrill ride.[/size]

i hope you are joking. Dreamflight gort me soo wound up and excited that if i rode it after 6pm, i would be up all night! Biggest thrill in the MK, i'd say.

 

[X2CommNavISTC]

Originally posted by Main Street USA
BUT, as Grizz posted, I won't be walking out of M:S humming a theme song. Heck, I didn't even notice ANY theme song, and I was paying close attention. Many seem to underestimate the EXTREME IMPORTANCE of music when it comes to adding drama, and dragging every last bit of possible emotion out of a scene or situation.

Uh, yeah, we do. Its called Destiny. Played as you exit the trainers.....?

The theme music is mostly played outside in the Plaza. But that is instrumental.

And another thing about the score in the mission itself. If you havent listened to it closely, you'll notice that it is a little intense for the part. Give the flight through the canyon a little edge.

Hell, if you dont believe me, Ill send you the track itself.

But seriously, do you think that every mission NASA does is set to music? Noooo....

What did they try to do with Mission: SPACE?

Make it as realistic as possible. So really, music is a key roll for the mission itself. But if you pay attention, music is everywhere in ISTC.

*End of longest post of the day*

 

[Dr Albert Falls]

X2 is right about Mission:Space's music.

In fact, I think "Destiny" has the same stick-in-your-head magic as Epcot songs of the past. (Part of Epcot's musical success in the early days falls directly on the shoulders of the late Buddy Baker. He often talked about creating the "Disney sound", and few since him have been able to replicate it. He had the talent.)

Responding to a few others' comments---- did you REALLY walk off an Epcot attraction humming the song???? Or did you already know the song by heart because you had the Official Album????

Think about it. The theme songs we claim to love so much actually played VERY LITTLE inside the attractions. "Listen to the Land" could only be heard the first 15 seconds of the ride. Same with "If You Can Dream It" on Horizons. "Tomorrow's Child" played during the last 45 seconds of so of Spaceship Earth.

 

[Fido]

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls
Think about it. The theme songs we claim to love so much actually played VERY LITTLE inside the attractions. "Listen to the Land" could only be heard the first 15 seconds of the ride. Same with "If You Can Dream It" on Horizons. "Tomorrow's Child" played during the last 45 seconds of so of Spaceship Earth.

In some cases you are right, in others you aren't. Did you ever ride World of Motion? I think it was almost impossible to ride it and NOT have 'It's Fun to be Free' stuck in your head. It pretty much went the length of the ride, with several variations. And don't forget, what's the top complaint from It's a Small World? That's right....that theme that you can't get out of your head.

 

[durhay]

I enjoy Test Track, but it doesn't really mean to me what World of Motion did. Of course, I've aged since then, so I'd have to be a 9 year old again to make a complete comparison. (It's that new Star Wars trilogy versus the original trilogy argument). What made Epcot Epcot and not just another amusement park was the "this is where we were, this is where we are, here's where we're going" aspect, and the optimistic and hopeful outlook on the future (which I can't stress enough when you're a little kid and you're seeing all these doomsday nuclear scenarios on tv and in the movies between the U.S.S.R and the U.S). I agree with the feeling that WoM and Horizons was getting old (mostly because we were getting old) but I wished they had replaced WoM with something similar and not turned it into a big Innoventions thing.

 

[Clemster]

As with many others I’d trade mission space for Horizons any day.
I've been on mission space once and it really didn't do much for me except make me feel a little rough for the next hour or so (ok so I’m a light weight).

The old horizons was far more thrilling and far more fulfilling. Riding Horizons invoked an overwhelming emotional response that you just can't get from mission space and it's a shame that these days physical thrill is preferred over emotional thrill.

For me what made EPCOT center special was the fact that it bought such optimism, you would go on a ride and come out smiling and feeling good with yourself, I'd come out at the end of the night (tired) and I use to dream about the future and all the exciting things that it holds, obviously I’m a few years older (and a few years more cynical) these days but even my mum comments that epcot isn't the park it use to be.

My favorite ride is Spaceship Earth, as it's one of only a few rides that I go on that can still bring on strong emotions as I ride through it, seeing what we have accomplished over the years and leaving your mind open to what lies ahead.
It’s a shame these days you never see a queue for SE (and have you seen how poor the AT+T global neighborhood is these days?), my view is that it represents how people have changed and how a quick adrenaline fix on a thrill ride is more important than a slow ride that lasts 5 times as long but makes you stop, think and appreciate.

In short it’s good that Epcot has rides like Mission Space to cater for those that desire such rides but not at the expense of fantastic rides that cater to a separate audience.