How can EPCOT be saved?

[Lauriebar]

I absolutely LOVE EPCOT! I love the rides AND the countries. I find it very educational and make sure my daughter learns something on every trip. I am a science teacher and have used Disney references in my teaching. Even the thrill rides are educational. I mean, how else would you know what it is like to blast off in a rocket? PERFECT attention getter to an astronomy unit. The ride on video would be great for a classroom. TestTrack has many aspects of education.....Physics...experiments (testing the cars), and why the curves are banked, etc.... I can not wait for Soarin'! Wonderful for Geography lessons! The countries are perfect for geography and/or history. TOO many educational opportunities to list them all. The Land and Living Seas are very good, too. Even in the other parks, you can learn something. You just have to want to learn and look for the opportunities.


....Never stop learning!!:wave:

I absolutely agree with your points!! I feel that my children have learned so much from our trips to EPCOT. As they grow older their perspectives change and their understanding increases so even though we go to WDW every year they learn something new everytime. Even though some wonderful educational pavillions have been removed, EPCOT is still a place for learning and expanding your world!!

 

[PeeplMoovr]

OH yeah, three biggest goofs, all those people who helped raise Epcot's attendance, and those long 2 hour long lines at Test Track are just goofs.

The longer lines might not be due to only to popularity, but to the fact that the ride craps out a lot (about 50% of the time I've been on it). And that the WoM omnimover system kept the longer lines from happening. Although I do remember waiting for WoM as well.
Test Track is good. But not worth an entire pavilion.
I personally don't like M:S, but can understand why some enjoy. Still, no pavilion really to speak of.

Keep the pavilions

 

[se8472]

I think my thing is...they are trying to bring people into the parks and save money at the same time. I was in WoL a few times before it closes/rehab (whatever) and there where little to no one in there. The place is hug and to have no one in them yet still have the place open does not make much scene.

Now in terms of M:S and TT being built over old attractions I just don't know what else could have been done. Both of those rides require a lot of room. I just don't see how peeps can say that they want both M:S and Horizon at the same time. Where on earth are they going to put both of them..there really is no room. Just like there is no room in Canada for a ride to be thrown in.

My advice for Canada is just to update the movie like China got...that really is all that is needed Canada rocks.

I have friends that to this day refuse to go to Epcot because they find it boring on all fronts. yes they are missing out on TT and M:S because they still believe its the boring old epcot. The way things are going I believe is great. The park before was boring. I hate to make it sound this way but the average person does not go to a park to be educated...sees sometimes that people are trying to go the other way but that is a whole other topic.

Case in point...epcot is trying to get away from touchy feel/see and more to experience and this is the epcot that I am loving. And as far as I care...WoL time is up...something new is needed.

 

[Rotel1026]

My coworker went to WDW for the first time in 2001 and then went again in 2002. She went to Epcot in 2001 and didn't like it, said it was boring and said they wouldn't bother going again. Your average park goer is much more like them than the people on these boards I would say. Epcot, was much as I might like it the way it is, or the way it was, was just a little too educational for most people's tastes. People don't go to amusement parks to be educated, they go to entertained. And yes, people can be educated and entertained at the same time but it's a pretty fine line. I don't think Disney did a very good job of walking that line. I think in order to continue attracting people to this park, they have to change it up and add things that are faster. As it stand, Imagination isn't much of a pavillion, and while I enjoy the Living Seas, not only is it a shadow of it's former self, but it was never that sucessful as an aquarium. I've been to plenty that were better. Seaworld down the road has a better aquarium. Those sharks above you...great! The Land?...they make the boat ride lines longer by taking out boats. Energy doesn't seem to be all that popular either, and Innoventions is turning more and more into a display for the latest computer games. Test Track and M:S are definitely more rides and not much of a pavillion but look at how much they spent on the ride portion of those "pavillions" than with the older pavillions. Either they could put more time and money into the pavillion or go for what they know would attract the most people...rides. Yes, Epcot is a different animal now than what it used to be but in order to keep it popular, they had to make changes. They gotta go with the lowest common denominator sometimes. Let's just hope they don't add carny rides and games.

 

[Main Street USA]

or the way it was, was just a little too educational for most people's tastes. People don't go to amusement parks to be educated, they go to entertained. And yes, people can be educated and entertained at the same time but it's a pretty fine line.

That's just it, though. Disney perfected that line, with EDUCATED people in mind, not with the morons that roam our country. I guess Disney screwed up and forgot to cater to the common idiot that can't handle being taught something a gradeschool kid could appreciate.

 

[Main Street USA]

I belive Epcot would be stupid to not replace an aging ride like WoM, JII, or Horizons. These rides were built with sponsors money in mind. They were expensive to run and staff. Disney was willing to go the extra mile for these pavilions because they got money from sponsors. But then they pulled out, or cut back funding. They were great rides. I agree, but explain how it's a goof to get rid of those pavilions if the new ones are making money, the public loves them, and they offer a unique ride and learning experence? Horizons wasn't even a pavilion in your sense of the word. GM wanted a new thrill ride for their attraction and didn't want to spend more money than they did with WoM. Should we blame Disney for not adding a huge post-show? GE pulled out of Horizons and Disney just couldn't staff the ride for much longer and keep it running. Look at the attractions at MK and Epcot. Notice a difference? When Disney pays for the rides, they are smaller and shorter. Even a great ride like Splash Mountain has lots of segments with no AAs. But Horizons had them from start to finish BECAUSE THEY HAD MONEY NOT ONLY COMMING FROM TICKET SALES BUT FROM CORPORATIONS. It boggles my imagination why people fail to realize that Disney's hands are tied many times by what the sponsors want.

Your idea that JII needed to be changed makes no sense. It takes the same amount of people to run that place as it did then.

Also, what "boggles" my mind is that people actually buy into this
"without a sponsor Disney can't afford to keep an attraction running" bullcrap. If you believe that, this conversation is over, becasue you can't be helped.

...and I'll explain it as a goof, once again, by pointing out the number of people who were truly bothered when these pavillions closed down. Do a little search for websites that were built aimed at "saving" these attractions, then take a look at how many visitors they had. This doesn't even include the people that didn't know about them, people without computers, people that actually called Disney, etc. etc....the list goes on to reveal thousands upon thousands of guests that loved WOM and Horizons. Then count the threads on this site alone.....blah blah blah....the point is that they're severely missed by many, many guests.

It took a lot more money to tear these buildings down than if they had chosen a new location, as well.....

...and there's much more to type...

Whatever. Honestly, it's late, I'm tired, and I've typed this same crap too many times in the past on this site.

 

[Wilson_Matua]

epcot thread thingy

What makes Epcot unique is that it is not a Fantasyland, it is not Movieland, and it is Nahtazoo... (Animal Kingdom) It's kind of the real thing.. or WDW's closest thing to it i suppose.. (with reason) We should recognize that going back to the original is not the best thing to do... I mean does that reflect our Experimental Prototype Community of TOMORROW? Okie... so.. Epcot really isn't an experimental prototype community of tomorrow.. but nonetheless, expansion, growth, and maturity of ideas, is important to Epcot's framework. With that said.. here is my thought:

1. If this is a true WALT DISNEY world park.. there would be no International Gateway.. though its quite obvious (kinda) to see why there is. The addition of IG strengthed an image and guest attendance for WS. That is a good, but as we all know.. there are other ways to do that.

2. The addition of more countries would be awsome.. but picking them would be a chore (though I would have to say that going to Thailand and having Thai food in WS or riding an updated Matterhorn in a Swiss pavillion would be pretty hot). As far as WS rides and shows are concerned.. the more the merrier. Though developing them, as well as new pavillions, would be a hassle.. a project which could take.. 1.. 2.. about 5 or 6 years... without having to close WS down completely.

3. New thrill rides in Epcot aren't totally off key.. though as you all have said.. they do take away from the educational purposes and unique Epcot experiences we 'SHOULD' be having. Though it can be a little frustrating to the diehard Epcot 'Center' fanatic, its what Disney believes people are more into. They can't be TOO wrong on this one. With attendance revitalizing from a downward slump.. acording to Amusement Business Magazine... these rides are the attractions that lots of people want.. if they're paying 50 so bucks a shot.

4. With that all said and done.. its hard to think what Disney should do to save Epcot. I have to agree.. that TT, MS, and the up and coming Soarin aren't an obvious plus on the Epcot Disney'esq factor, but they do bring money, and that supposedly is what keeps Epcot running. (Why does that sound so wierd... thanks Eyeznr.) Oh by the way... I still think TT, MS, and Soarin (at least the one in DCA) are pretty gosh darn cool.

I guess you could think of MS and TT as just revamps of old disney attractions... Mission: Space... a new and improved Body Wars or whatever its called?.. Test Track... umm... a new and improved... Mr. Toad's Wild Ride?

Umm.. sorry.. I had something important I was trying to get across in this post.. but I'm so tired now... and I leave tomorrow morning at 6 for WDW.. So I'm really excited.. yet very tired at the same time...

Epcot is fun... i like the music. Duh doo duh doo doo doo doo.. you know. Innoventions background.. -_- zzz

- Ryan
My Convo with Wilson Matua...
R: We're at the crossroads.. the gate has been smashed though..
W: Keep going Simba 1, Keep going!
R: Roger that Wilson.. (damn.. why does this stupid truck only do 10 mph?)
Guests: Step on the gas!
R: I am... its the terrain.. our tires are sticking to the wet pavement.

 

[Elonwy]

I don't know if there's room for many more pavillions but I would like to see Russia, Egypt, Greece, Brazil, South Africa, Australia and Iceland just to name a few. I think they are pretty diverse for achetecture, people and types of attractions possible

I think they've been talking about a ride for Canada for a long time (I first heard the rumour in '92) but will it ever really happen?

 

[se8472]

I think they've been talking about a ride for Canada for a long time (I first heard the rumour in '92) but will it ever really happen?

I think it had a lot to do with the fact that there is no room for one.

 

[Mom's the word]

This is just a wish list right? If I ruled the (Epcot) world I'd like to see:
1. Rides/attractions in every country pavilion so more people would stay, enjoy and maybe learn a bit.
2. More pavilions for different countries. People have had some terrific suggestions already that would be great.
3. Better shopping in the pavilions. Candy, wine, perfume, why do I feel like I'm shopping at the airport in some of the shops in WS? Don't misread me, there are some great little pockets with interesting products but not as many as there could be.
4. More inexpensive - but tasty - ways to sample food in some of the pavilions. The restaurants are terrific but pricey for if you want to try more than one or two. The Food and Wine festival is a great example of ways to let more people try food around the world.
5. Keep the new "thrill rides" - tons of people are enjoying them - but bring back some "oldies" like Horizons and WoM.
6. Revitalize the other pavilions like the Living Seas. Learning is great but often best when combined with fun - the old spoonful of sugar trick.
7. Is there any way to relocate the monoliths - are they Leave a Legacy? - that crowd the front entry? There have to be nicer ways to landscape that area and welcome people.

Since this is just a wish list I can't tell anyone how this should be done, who will pay for it or where Disney would find the room. I'm just daydreaming here. As it is Epcot is still one of our favorites and, hopefully, always will be.

 

[Mr. Tom Morrow]

Why I Love Epcot Center

I posted my thoughts on how to 'fix' Epcot in this tread http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=31373 in December last year, feel free to give it a read.

Thanks

 

[AllThatsJoey]

"How Can Epcot Be Saved?"

It needs to accept Walt Disney as it's personal Lord and Savior...???

 

[PeeplMoovr]

That's just it, though. Disney perfected that line, with EDUCATED people in mind, not with the morons that roam our country. I guess Disney screwed up and forgot to cater to the common idiot that can't handle being taught something a gradeschool kid could appreciate.

You took the thoughts right out of my head. :lol:

 

[Mom's the word]

I posted my thoughts on how to 'fix' Epcot in this tread http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=31373 in December last year, feel free to give it a read.

Thanks

Wow, I read your thoughts and would love to go to your Epcot! If you're not an Imagineer you should be! Really terrific ideas.

 

[Goofy23]

There is one way to fix EPCOT....are you all ready for this??










EDUCATIONAL DARK RIDES WITH ANIMATRONICS!

Think Horizons, WoM, and all your problems are solved!

 

[sabian]

I Agree that EPCOT CENTER needs to get back to its original form. Now, i think there are people here who are so pro-disney, the company, that they will defend everything there to the hilt. Now, i am pro-disney, the man, as in Walt Disney. I remember the feeling i USED to get when i walked into EPCOT. I felt excited because i knew i was going to be entertained and mentally stimulated. It was a feeling of anxiousness because i was being told a story and I was living the history of many technologies. Kinda like when your grandparents told you a story, except this time you got to live it. Now, the rides in future world are thrill based, most of them that is. Now, i have no complaint with the enjoyability ofTest Track ( i haven't ridden mission:Space,) but i think those rides would have fit nicely in, say tomorrowland at the magic kingdom as opposed to future world. The thrills are fine, buit there is no stimulation. Ok, maybe horizons and world of motion were out dated. Renew them with the technology we have available today. Anyway, i believe that imagineers need to be allowed to return to the original ideals that were set forth for EPCOT by Walt Disney. My 2 cents....

 

[DisneyDream2004]

1. Change management. Don't even TOUCH SE until you get new management and better WDI/budget.
2. Revive "seasonal" or decaying attractions
3. TOTAL redo to Imagination. Bring in a QUALITY ride with the Dreamfinder.
4. Stop this cloning/changing Epcot for it. The Land needs to be saved.
5. Brand new post-shows to Mission Space and Test Track describing the ESSENCE of subject matter, quality presentations, and true ATTRACTIONS for families to enjoy.

That's a start. . . the D-Army will explain more soon.

I think Grizz hit it right on here. The new rides may be a attempt at "education" on the subject matter (space, cars, etc.), but they pale in comparison to the educational value of the former pavilions. They need to inject some learning experiences into the rides, or at least the post shows. Wasn't the whole point of EPCOT to show the posibilities of the mind? I feel like they are trying to hard to compete with IOA.

 

[Main Street USA]

I remember the feeling i USED to get when i walked into EPCOT. I felt excited because i knew i was going to be entertained and mentally stimulated.

Oh man, you rock. This is along the lines af what I wanted to type last night at 3:00 in the morning, but couldn't find the words. You put it perfectly. Heck, your post, combined with the first part of my "common idiots" post just may be the perfect argument! LOL :lol: