Here's What is Currently Wrong With Disney ...

[Pumbas Nakasak]

What does Pepsi and Coke have to do with it?

Theyre sugary sweet, full of gas and bad for your health in the long run, so Im sure you can see the connection

 

[tomman710]

The problem you point out is a subtle one. Disney has the reputation for constant innovation, open-mindedness, marketing, and outstanding customer service. So many companies that are now failing (GM, AT&T, Kodak, Etc . . .) also had cutting reputations at one time. Then they lost the cutting edge and/or got beat by competition that had a sharper cutting edge.

Perhaps Disney is becoming too comfortable in the type of people who are hired to the point that they will be vulnerable to sharper competitors. Becoming incestuous in their hiring could be just enough to stifle true innovation and squash the nay-sayers who just may say valuable things.

The recent experience with Pixar may be very informative. The Disney animation department had become somewhat stagnant, with more animated mediocrity than blockbusters (although some blockbusters were being made). Pixar at the time was hitting blockbuster after blockbuster. And now, the brain and energy behind Pixar is in charge of Disney parks. (I wish I could remember his name, John Lassitter?) Why was a start-up like Pixar able to beat the giant? Obviously bold individuals at Pixar saw the vision that Disney had lost, and became successful accordingly.

In any event, organizations commonly make the safe choice and not the bold choice. Even Walt and Roy did that to an extent. The world, they say, is run by "B" students, but the "color in the lines" "A" students get the initial job offers. That's a safe way to go, but often the worst choice to make long term due to the stagnant mindset that could develop. Let's see how this plays out. Outside the box thinkers, like the original WED designers, need to be at Disney. Hopefully they will actually come around and do great things.

Thanks, man, this is the kind of subject I wanted to discuss and here you bring up an interesting point in how this philosophy translate to imagineering ... are we getting the best possible innovators, creative thinkers or those that fit into a certained preordained punch list regardless of talent level or individuality?

This begs the question then ... how many creative people has Disney completely overlooked to adhere to a short sighted criteria and have now gone on to the competition instead?

 

[raven]

Have you tried showing up in person? They hire just about anyone off the street so that's not the problem. You might not get what you want at first but you have to work at that. But try showing up in person.

 

[dweezil78]

This begs the question then ... how many creative people has Disney completely overlooked to adhere to a short sighted criteria and have now gone on to the competition instead?

Here's the thing -- for those super creative jobs (especially Imagineering), they're definitely not hiring people who send in resumes. In most cases, they're probably probably poaching talent from other companies or bringing in talent that others inside the company/department are already familiar with. These are positions that recruiters never even touch I'd imagine.

So it's not that Disney isn't hiring creative people or only hiring folks who have big corporate experience. It's just that you're trying to enter through one gate that happens to be blocked by people who require this criteria. My advice? Find a new gate.

And unfortunately, when it comes to more business oriented jobs, they probably don't care much about creativity. They'd much rather know that you increased sales by XXX% at Big Company. If you're creative, it's just a plus at best.

 

[fosse76]

As you are aware I am sure but Disney, while an entertainment company, like all companies has a very diverse range of positions. And without going into great detail, I will give you one example; a sales manager for DVC sales for instance, the requirements are sales and real estate experience, so to your point no it is not an entirely different industry and as I stated above and the recruiter verified I was perfectly suited for every position I applied for if not over qualified for.

Yes it is an entirely different industry. The Walt Disney Company IS an entertainment company. Period. The fact that they may have subsidiaries and divisions that deal with real Estate, marketing, etc. is not relevant. The company ITSELF is in one particular industry.

And your qualifications aren't in question. Many boutique law firm lawyers have more litigation and courtroom experience than tgheir counterparts at large corporate firms, but would never be considered for a position because they have never worked at a big corporate firm. I know a friend who does contracts law for a living, and applied for a job with a theatrical producer doing just that kind of law. They didn't even interview him, because he had no experience working on Broadway. Yet he knows how to draw up those types of contracts. It had nothing to do with his knowledge or qualifications. It was that he didn't have the industry experience.

To sum, it's not the job, position, or experience. It's the culture. You don't have the corporate culture experience Disney prefers.

This was my problem, the recruiter verified my thoughts in that I had all or more than the qualifications or experience. My lack of interview had nothing to do with me ... all it had to do with is their "narrowing the field" process which restricts candidates to one who have only worked for Coke or Pepsi type companies, which I might add are not entertainment or hospitality companies either.

No, but Disney probably views their corporate culture as similar to those companies, or the type of work you'd be doing is in line with those companies compared to the companies you'ved worked for.

So again ... it comes down to the guiding ideaological principle ...

It comes down to all companies preferring candidates in their industry. Period. Just look at Hollywood, an industry nearly impossible to break into in ANY capacity. They have real estate needs too, but they aren't going to really a consider anyone who hasn't worked at a studio or entertainment law firm in the past.

 

[tomman710]

Here's the thing -- for those super creative jobs (especially Imagineering), they're definitely not hiring people who send in resumes. In most cases, they're probably probably poaching talent from other companies or bringing in talent that others inside the company/department are already familiar with. These are positions that recruiters never even touch I'd imagine.

So it's not that Disney isn't hiring creative people or only hiring folks who have big corporate experience. It's just that you're trying to enter through one gate that happens to be blocked by people who require this criteria. My advice? Find a new gate.

And unfortunately, when it comes to more business oriented jobs, they probably don't care much about creativity. They'd much rather know that you increased sales by XXX% at Big Company. If you're creative, it's just a plus at best.

I think you are missing my point. You are only focusing on me and my experience to which you do not know the details because in reality, for the sake of this discussion, the details are irrelevant. The point of my discussion is the recruiter words, she said "I am qualified to overqualified for the positions I am applying for but etc. etc." I stated it all above already.

That is my bone of contention, the statement that was made and the prevailing criteria behind that statement. For the sake of this discussion, just focus on the recruiter's words and whether you believe me or not just assume that the candidate is perfect even down to including sales numbers and precentages on the resume, but even still Disney won't speak to the recruit because there is no "Coke" or "Pepsi" experience ...

Now what I was intending to do with this thread was apply this philosophy to the entire company. I understand that there has to be gate keepers and cost cutting measures but have they whittled it down so far that they are stifling themselves and missing out on people or ideas that could elevate them to new places?

YES, I am probably not an ideal candidate for imagineering which is why I have never applied for a position in imagineering but the above commentor brought up the point about imagineers and it made a good jumping off point for dicsussion. Let's say they apply the same philosophy to imagineering ... as an example ... "We only will speak to people who have worked at Microsoft ..." My question then is is this too limiting? Are they missing out on great creative minds because their criteria is incredibly short sighted. In that example, one can argue that just because someone has worked at Microsoft, Coke, or Pepsi does not mean they are smart, creative, or an ideal candidate.

So this is what I wanted to discuss, do we feel like this philosophy is permating the entire idealogy behind the company?

 

[tomman710]

It comes down to all companies preferring candidates in their industry. Period. Just look at Hollywood, an industry nearly impossible to break into in ANY capacity. They have real estate needs too, but they aren't going to really a consider anyone who hasn't worked at a studio or entertainment law firm in the past.

I have worked in three completely different industries now, finance, construction, and real estate and having achieved executive status in all three I will have to respectfully disagree with you.

In my years of experience at all three of those industries, what industry you came from did not matter as long as the education and experience was relevant. In fact, the top sales associate at the real estate firm I worked at came over from being a buyer at Macy's, which are nearly opposite industries. The example is; Peyton Manning is a great quarterback, will he suddenly become a bad quarterback if he played in the arena league, or the European league? No, a good quarterback is a good quarterback doesn't matter where he plays.

Now, yes I can't apply this to every profession but sales, marketing, and leadership, those aren't about the arena, those are about people.

So, I will give you that you are partially right, for example; Disney should take engineers associated with designing rides to design rides, not engineers who work on houses. However, if they apply your thought patterns to those other positions then my point still holds up because those are "behavioral oriented positions" ...

But I think Disney does not think like you because why would they take an executive who has been running a hotel or park and put them in charge of transportation? Those are very different arenas? It's because that position isn't about the arena, it's about the person.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

The simple fact is most recruitment firms are pretty hopeless. Its easier for them to poach from similar companies to their clients. Higher margins in it for them and to be honest the industry is full of scum bags.

Trouble is this incestuous behaviour leads to the recruitment of clones and the gradual erosion of fresh thinking and ultimately creativity

 

[tomman710]

The simple fact is most recruitment firms are pretty hopeless. Its easier for them to poach from similar companies to their clients. Higher margins in it for them and to be honest the industry is full of scum bags.

Trouble is this incestuous behaviour leads to the recruitment of clones and the gradual erosion of fresh thinking and ultimately creativity

This was my point. I wish I could have summed it up as succinctly as you. Thanks alot, man.

It kind of got lost in the breaking down of who I was as a candidate.

 

[E P C O T]

Void.

 

[tomman710]

tomman710, are you by any chance 'hirsute'?

I know someone who shoots advertising photography for Coca~Cola and would be very annoyed if people thought his work was not creative.

I don't know what that is.

But, I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone, and I didn't mean to imply that EVERYONE working for those companies are not smart people ... just using them as an example to illustrate a point.

 

[KCMouse]

I can understand your frustration. I work in HR for a fairly large regional bank. Candidates submit resumes, then the computer picks out resumes for me to see based off of keywords in the resume. I only see about 20% of resumes that are submitted. For an open position, about 300 applicants apply. So I get about 60 resumes. After reviewing the resumes, I will only call about 10 people for an interview.

My bank covers 5 states. Now, imagine a company like Disney. I am sure they would recieve more resumes then I recieve for an open position. They probably have the same type of computer system that picks resumes for review. The computer might look for the Disney College Program and names of other large corporations. The recruiter then has to pick a handful of resumes to call for interviews.

It is like winning the lottery these days to get an interview. Here is another tip, if you are qualified or overqualified for a postion, you will not get a call. Recruitiers will assume you will cost too much. Also, I know you keep saying that this is not about you, but sending in a crazy amount of resumes will not help your cause.

I think the system stinks, but it is really the most cost effective way weed out candidates.

 

[dweezil78]

I think you are missing my point. You are only focusing on me and my experience to which you do not know the details because in reality, for the sake of this discussion, the details are irrelevant.

The details are absolutely relevant. You are upset with a recruiter's criteria for filling a position which you are then tying into creativity of the company and its employees. My point was that not all (or even most) Disney jobs are filled by recruiters, especially the creative ones so whatever the recruiter is telling you doesn't really matter anyways.

And as others have stated, having experience in the industry you're going to work for (which in Disney's case is big brand entertainment) is typically very important to a recruiter... Keep in mind that recruiters, especially now with unemployment so high, receive TONS of resumes and that you are lucky if yours even gets noticed. If you're fortunate enough to make it to an in-person interview, you're most likely going to meet with several people who each have to take time out of their work day to meet you. There's only so many times they'll want to do this before they get ed at the recruiter for wasting their time, so recruiters are going to make sure they bring in the candidates that seem most qualified in every way -- and that includes relevant industry experience.

 

[tomman710]

The details are absolutely relevant. You are upset with a recruiter's criteria for filling a position which you are then tying into creativity of the company and its employees. My point was that not all (or even most) Disney jobs are filled by recruiters, especially the creative ones so whatever the recruiter is telling you doesn't really matter anyways.

And as others have stated, having experience in the industry you're going to work for (which in Disney's case is big brand entertainment) is typically very important to a recruiter... Keep in mind that recruiters, especially now with unemployment so high, receive TONS of resumes and that you are lucky if yours even gets noticed. If you're fortunate enough to make it to an in-person interview, you're most likely going to meet with several people who each have to take time out of their work day to meet you. There's only so many times they'll want to do this before they get ed at the recruiter for wasting their time, so recruiters are going to make sure they bring in the candidates that seem most qualified in every way -- and that includes relevant industry experience.

Your point about them only wanting relevant industry experience is wrong ... because the recruiter, who is not a third party recruiter by the way but a Disney HR person whose title was recruitment hence why I called her a recruiter, anyway ... she said Disney would only look for applicants with Coke or Pepsi experience, so your point about relevant industry experience is wrong because those companies are not any more similar to Disney than Merrill Lynch or Jones Lang LaSalle.

So again I have to disagree ... my specific details are not relevant to the discussion I want to have, what if I worked for Dollywood or another low level theme park in an executive position, it wouldn't matter, you see? ... Here is the exact statement I want to discuss;

Disney will only accept applicants from companies like Coke or Pepsi. (Different industries!!)

My questions are; is that the best way to do business? Is this too limiting? Is this elimination process too short sighted? Is this same protocol carried over into every line of business? What can we expect from Walt Disney World in the future if this is how business is conducted?

 

[dweezil78]

. she said Disney would only look for applicants with Coke or Pepsi experience, so your point about relevant industry experience is wrong because those companies are not any more similar to Disney than Merrill Lynch or Jones Lang LaSalle.

Dude, Coke and Pepsi -- like Disney -- are part of pop-culture not just in America but worldwide. All three are big behmoth brands that people are passionate and loyal about. Although yes, they are not an "entertainment" company, their brands are very much interwoven into all things entertainment in a way that's very much consumer-facing.

You honestly don't see how that's relevant industry experience to a company like Disney???

 

[tomman710]

Dude, Coke and Pepsi -- like Disney -- are part of pop-culture not just in America but worldwide. All three are big behmoth brands that people are passionate and loyal about. Although yes, they are not an "entertainment" company, their brands are very much interwoven into all things entertainment in a way that's very much consumer-facing.

You honestly don't see how that's relevant industry experience to a company like Disney???

Relative to a company like Merrill Lynch, no ... no difference ...

However, the point the recruiter made applies to everyone ... what if someone was a vice president of sales for a an entertainment company that was national or global but not on Coke or Pepsi level, the same priciple would apply, right? My question is; is that sound logic to dismiss someone?

 

[EpcotServo]

I know I and everyone I know who works there were pretty miffed at how they are at casting now...And I'm just talking attractions. For example, their forced online "application" only allows 1. I had over ten great references...It's indecent compared to years before, where you at least got to talk to a human...I'm just stuck here waiting for a call they actually said might never come.
:dazzle:

 

[rickmusic53]

Let me start by saying, I do not mean to bash or belittle the company I love so dearly, but this is more of an open forum/letter to the current administration and a chance to see if I am entirely off base by hearing my fellow forumers thoughts. However, I think my points are nothing new because from reading the boards over the years I feel like my following sentiments are echoed by the great majority of the board members.

If I can briefly relate a personal experience, very briefly. Since 2002, I have attempted to get a job within the Disney company, practically every month for over 7 years now I have sent multiple applications for jobs. My rough estimate is that I have sent over 500 applications. Now, without being overly effusive about myself, let me just state that I have an extensive education and over 10 years of experience (currently I am vice president of sales and marketing for a national construction corporation). So I am not reaching or misjudging my abilities or experience, in fact all the jobs I applied for I was either ideally suited for due to the stated criteria or over qualified for in some cases.

In those seven years and 500 plus applications, not once, have I ever even been asked for an interview. Not once. I find that very odd that someone with experience, too much education, and the obvious desire does not warrant at least one interview.

However, my point about all this is not to whine about myself, because in reality I am very happy with my current secular situation but I do believe my point illustrates a big problem with the current management team; so here's the point of it all:

After an exhaustive search for answers I finally was able to get a Disney recruiter on the phone. The recruiter examined my education, experience, and so on, she admitted, and validated my own thoughts, that I was perfectly suited if not more than qualified for the positions I applied for. So why did I never get an interview? Her response was that I never worked for "Coke" or "Pepsi" ...

What? Obviously, she didn't implicitly mean I had to work for only one of those two companies but the implication was that I hadn't worked for someone like that. This type of logic is so misguided and short sided.

I understand they must get thousands of resumes, if not more, ands they need a way to pare it down. However, to make the criteria based around working for a company such as Coke or Pepsi is so incredibly myopic because truthfully, no offense to the sales and marketing of those companies, but how hard is it to sell or market a product that is so concretely branded into the public's conscience? I'd wager to bet that no matter how those products are marketed or sold that it would not largely affect the profits from those companies in the slightest ... because everyone is always going to drink Coke or Pepsi. In fact people are always going to drink Coke or Pepsi more so than people will always support a Disney movie or Disney theme park. In that way Disney requires something more ...

Now contrast that with someone that has had to work at a smaller corporation, relative to those companies but not mom and pop by any means, and how they have to be inventive, imaginative, creative to sell something that in most cases people have not ever heard about? It takes almost zero effort to sell Coke or Pepsi.

This brings me to my ultimate summation; this situation is a small one and specifically is about sales, marketing, and management positions however if this is the same principle they apply to other positions, projects, and plans then it shows a severe lack of vision, foresight, direction, and really the basic guiding principles that Walt built the company on. Which was looking for the best people regardless of station, experience, or background.

It shows that they take an easy way to cut corners, to eliminate actually looking through applicants that in all likelihood may be incredibly well suited and fresh for the company ... and applied globally shows that they are probably cutting corners everywhere in favor of doing a little bit more work to ensure the best quality product is presented.

My fear is this isn't just a management or recruiting ideology but something that sums up the way the entire company is currently operated. I hope it is not but all indications seem other wise ... especially with the lack of vision shown recently, save for the Fantasyland expansion which ... we don't know how it well eventually turn out because if this same ideology is applied what can we actually expect from it?

I wonder what 2010 will bring?

I don't believe you pal. Your manner of communication alone indicates to me that you are full of yourself. I applied once and got an immediate interview and it wasn't menial labor. You need to stay where you can be appreciated as what you are...extremely pretentious.

 

[tomman710]

I know I and everyone I know who works there were pretty miffed at how they are at casting now...And I'm just talking attractions. For example, their forced online "application" only allows 1. I had over ten great references...It's indecent compared to years before, where you at least got to talk to a human...I'm just stuck here waiting for a call they actually said might never come.
:dazzle:

OK ... perfect this is what my intention was, so this has permeated the entire employment process ... now is this ideaology part of Disney as a whole or just employment? However, one could argue that what makes WDW so great is the people ...

 

[TURKEY]

What type of position are you applying for?