Have I Become Jaded?

[pax_65]

one thing also Op, some times I suffer from "remember when-itis" if you went to Disney world during the late 90's and early 2000's (outside of 9/11) you remember Disney at literally it's golden age. It really was the standard for family vacations. The service was just really, really superb and it's hard some times to remember that and not feel like it's gone down.

^THIS. Some may compare Disney to other hotels and give them high marks, but I compare Disney to the Disney of old, the Disney I fell in love with, and it does NOT compare favorably at all. And as I always point out, the cost has gone way up (far beyond the rate of inflation) so the VALUE you're getting at Disney has dropped considerably.

We used to go twice a year. We are now going once every other year and that my be too often. I'll let you know after our next trip in May. Fingers crossed.

 

[Chef Mickey]

We see more and more guests complaining about the lack of a pleasant Disney vacation. I really think the problem with most of the issues stem directly with the massive increase of numbers of guests that Disney continues to draw in. .

That's exactly why I want them to raise prices to whatever makes them their financial targets and decreases crowds. I'd pay 50% more to reduce crowds just 25%.

Of course, the crowd control issue is Disney's fault and their lack of meaningful expansion in the Iger era. Even with everything currently slated, they need a new land and 3-4 new rides in every single park. They also need more hotels and restaurants, particularly in parks.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

Both Disneyland and Disney World now suffer from the same problem. They've filled in the seasonal gaps and have made the parks more consistently busy, but they have not adjusted park hours, entertainment schedules or staffing levels to reflect this. That and a park like MK was never designed to handle 20 million people a year. Until they start adding real capacity to the parks (and they are, but slowly) and increase their daily operating budgets, it's going to be somewhat of a pain to tour the parks without substantial pre-planning.

What is a problem to us, the fans, is far from a problem for Disney lol. They've globalized their brand into the most popular entertainment company, this is good for them.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

That's exactly why I want them to raise prices to whatever makes them their financial targets and decreases crowds. I'd pay 50% more to reduce crowds just 25%.

Of course, the crowd control issue is Disney's fault and their lack of meaningful expansion in the Iger era. Even with everything currently slated, they need a new land and 3-4 new rides in every single park. They also need more hotels and restaurants, particularly in parks.

I would definitely pay more to lower crowds. I love that idea!

 

[eliza61nyc]

What is a problem to us, the fans, is far from a problem for Disney lol. They've globalized their brand into the most popular entertainment company, this is good for them.

very true and as a stockholder one half of me is glad. My concern is what I call "management by stockholders". Stockholders are never satisfied, there is always a push to increase over last years numbers. So now Disney darn near operates a max so to continually increase profits they build more hotels to squeeze more paying guest into the already saturated space. at what point does that backfire.

What I loved to know and what is very hard to get numbers for because the mouseworld is very closed mouth is what is the % of return visitors? If a family saves up for years to go to wdw and then has an experience like op's do they return?

 

[POLY LOVER]

I mean you are asking a business to get rid of their customers because they are to successful. It's like asking a great restaurant to not fill all their tables because you have to wait to get in? I can see asking them to increase their employees to handle the crowds but no one is going to change the number of tickets they sell. The problem is Disney does not have seats to fill and when they fill them they are sold out. They don't have a good way to say what capacity is. What is the number that allows the best experience.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

very true and as a stockholder one half of me is glad. My concern is what I call "management by stockholders". Stockholders are never satisfied, there is always a push to increase over last years numbers. So now Disney darn near operates a max so to continually increase profits they build more hotels to squeeze more paying guest into the already saturated space. at what point does that backfire.

What I loved to know and what is very hard to get numbers for because the mouseworld is very closed mouth is what is the % of return visitors? If a family saves up for years to go to wdw and then has an experience like op's do they return?

It's bound to backfire long term, right? I study medicine, not business, but this just seems like common sense. The scenario you described about the saving family seems like it would happen often, and would happen more and more given the trajectory of the WDW. I wonder how much they rely on returning visitors vs 1 time family visits. At some point this ought to catch up with them and attendance will severely drop.

 

[POLY LOVER]

As a former owner of a resturants some years ago there are a few variety of customers. First one is, the customer that is trying to find something wrong to complain about obviously looking for something for free. Then there is the one that nothing on earth can satisfy them and they refuse to be happy. Then the worst of all, super demanding, wants everything like a five star restaurant but doesn't want to pay for it. They also will get concessions from you and still complain and bad mouth you even when you do the right thing. Being in business is like insane.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

I mean you are asking a business to get rid of their customers because they are to successful. It's like asking a great restaurant to not fill all their tables because you have to wait to get in? I can see asking them to increase their employees to handle the crowds but no one is going to change the number of tickets they sell. The problem is Disney does not have seats to fill and when they fill them they are sold out. They don't have a good way to say what capacity is. What is the number that allows the best experience.

That's a good point. Haha, I suppose we can dream though.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I mean you are asking a business to get rid of their customers because they are to successful. It's like asking a great restaurant to not fill all their tables because you have to wait to get in? I can see asking them to increase their employees to handle the crowds but no one is going to change the number of tickets they sell. The problem is Disney does not have seats to fill and when they fill them they are sold out. They don't have a good way to say what capacity is. What is the number that allows the best experience.

but you can get statistical information to make a guestimate. for example, let's say you survey and find out that 30 mins seems to be the max waiting time in line that guest say they wait without getting a negative feeling. your survey say that after waiting 30 minutes most guest start to feel negatively toward their experience. you can easily pick say your 2 headliners in the park and extrapolate what capacity you max out at. So if it's MK you pick Space and splash mtn, they already give you those time "thingeys" on rides.

While it's not exact, you can get an idea. but you are right that's not going to happen because no way are they going ot turn down sales.

 

[Magenta Panther]

So first, let me start by saying this post could easily fall under this category or Trip Reports category but I settled on here since I'm not going to recall all of my trip. Second, I swear I'm not just looking for a place to complain. I am a Disney parks fanatic through and through and I feel like I'm usually about a step away from selling Disney vacations door to door. I just wanted to start a discussion and see if I'm alone in feeling a certain way after our last trip.
Two weeks ago, we spent 8 days at WDW staying at Port Orleans - Riverside. This was our first trip staying at that resort but not our first WDW trip. In fact, we've been visiting WDW every year for the past several years. I'll start by saying I've seen a lot of chatter lately (on this forum and others) about how the parks, specifically MK, have become TOO crowded to be enjoyable. I really thought this was just people being a little over dramatic but after a couple of days of the same experience, I was starting to second guess that. I will say that not every day was this crowded but there were several days where you just could not move through the sea of people. Several times we just sat and people watched as it was just too crowded to actually do anything.
Then, there was the bus transportation. Now, I've had some crazy bus lines but every single night on this trip; no matter the time, no matter the park, the bus lines were crazy. I wouldn't have been too upset by this but we were always next to the Coronado stop and every night, they would have about 4 buses picking up 15-20 people in the time it took us to get two buses and man, were the bus drivers some of the most hateful cast members.
Then the final straw for me was the resort. The food court was a nightmare every night. Usually Disney seems to be pretty organized when it comes to food service but not here. On at least two different nights, we waited for 20+ minutes for food only to find out the kitchen had somehow lost our order. We had housekeeping leave a dirty tray of food in the room (that was sitting in plain sight on the table) and found roaches on two different occasions.
I say all this to come around to my discussion topic I guess. I went to the front desk and wrote an email to guest services. I've always heard about Disney's excellent commitment to customer service but as we've never complained or gone to guest services, I've never had a personal experience. The hotel manager acted like I was an idiot for complaining about roaches. He proceeded to tell me we were in Florida and there are roaches in Florida. He apologized and moved us to another room. My email to guest services got us a whopping $150 back. Now look, I certainly wasn't trying to get a full refund of our trip but after spending over $2000 just in room fees and park tickets, $150 almost seemed laughable and I'm not sure I've ever stayed in ANY hotel that would take having roaches as lightly as the manager at Port Orleans did.
Usually, by this time, I'm already rearing to go back but we actually just cancelled our trip for next year and are trying to decide if we really want to go back before 2021. Has anyone else run into this feeling? I don't want to become jaded but I just feel a complete sense of disappointment after this trip.

My advice, for what it's worth: next time, go to Universal. Not nearly as crowded (in my experience) and the park is truly a revelation. If you need a Disney fix, arrange with Mears shuttle service to pick you up from Uni to go to WDW and spend a day there (and plan it carefully - restaurant reservations, FastPass etc.) Go to WDW for a couple of days if you like. A friend of mine did that and he just got back and he was ECSTATIC over his trip. He got to ride the Mine Train and Frozen and see HEA and didn't suffer the usual trauma over crowds and dirty hotels etc. I'm following his lead on my next vacation (after I visit Disneyland that is). I think it's the best way to experience WDW for now. (And BTW my friend has a wife and kids - they were very happy too). Just a thought.

 

[Kamikaze]

Lol, you're too funny. You didn't post anything factual. The law is way too complex for you to just dismiss a hypothetical case as unwinnable. You simply cannot know that. I guarantee you I would win if I sued them. Facts, you can't argue against them.

No one thought OJ could win either. Except he did.

OJ didn't 'win' anything. He was found not guilty. Which is exactly what Disney would be found in your 'case'. He also lost the civil case.

You would need to be able to prove Disney was both negligent and an abetting party. You would not be able to prove that. Thus, you would not win. Period. You would have a slight chance if you just sued the offending employee, but since the card carries 0% fraud liability, the only damages you'd be able to seek would be incidental damages such as loss of time and 'pain and suffering'. Which most likely would not fly very far in this hypothetical case.

 

[Rumrunner]

I guess I could have gotten into every single detail but I chose to try from rambling on and on. I'm a seasoned Disney visitor. I have very realistic expectations and know not to expect the Disney vacation you see in commercials. And to be quite honest, I wouldn't have made a peep about the other things if the roach thing hadn't been an issue. Again, I need to reiterate that I'm not a complainer by nature but I also feel like when you're paying ~$250/night for a hotel room plus the price of park tickets, a manager should at least ACT like they care that there were roaches and a tray of food left over 12 hours sitting in a hotel room. And maybe you don't think it's a big deal but again, at that price per night, I don't think it's "dramatic" to feel like waiting 40-45 minutes for a bus is a little long.

You're welcome to take my post as you will and I welcome the input. It wasn't my intention to bash WDW. I just have to question if it's that my expectations are too high or our expectations with Disney have gone down

I appreciated the information you posted. It was your experience and you have ever right to express displeasure at what happened on your trip. You stated your case well and expressed legitimate concerns. Disney is a wonderful place and many are so loyal any criticism is taken as heresy. We should all speak out and attempt to help Disney with improving the product. I don't think they are aware of how discouraged some are about the so called "new direction" which has a lot of problems.

 

[GoofGoof]

I can honestly say that in the 20 years I have been going to Disney I have never had to wait for my quick service meal. I pay , walk to the pick up area and in a matter of minutes my food comes out. I don't doubt what you are saying but I have never had that problem.

I never did either in 30+ years until this trip. It happened on multiple occasions too at 3 different parks so it wasn’t just a one off issue. I had no issues at Contempo Cafe or Captain Cook’s but they bring the food out to you at both those places and they are not in the parks. I do wonder if it has anything to do with the new mobile ordering. Maybe it’s messing with the flow of orders in the kitchen or something.

 

[GoofGoof]

We had proof, disney said they knew what employee was in the room on the date it was used. The problem was we didn't notice it until we got home. When we called and told them what happened, they investigated it, and the resort called us back with a sorry, and we will refund the money to your card in the next 2 to 3 weeks... that was it. I have no knowledge of if the mouse keeper was fired, or even disciplined. Apparently the mouse keeper found the card, wrote down the card number, then charged $50 to some catalog. If I would have scammed Disney like that I would probably be in jail, or on probation.

If that happened to me and they knew which employee was involved I would have wanted to know that the employee was fired and arrested. I would hope that’s what happened in this case anyway. Credit card theft is so common because people get away with it too often. Companies don’t want to bother pursuing losses for $50 so the criminal gets away. These thieves know if the losses are small enough the company will just write it off without any investigation.

 

[GoofGoof]

First, how could they do a better job managing the crowds? I'm genuinely curious of your opinion on the matter. You state that they mishandled them, but what could've been done better?

IMHO the handling of crowds while I was there seemed much improved. I saw more CMs actively monitoring crowds and keeping paths clear especially on Main Street in MK. The bag check lines seemed a lot better organized too. The one exception was the counter service food lines which I talked about already but that was more of a kitchen issue.

 

[Chef Mickey]

OJ didn't 'win' anything. He was found not guilty. Which is exactly what Disney would be found in your 'case'. He also lost the civil case.

You would need to be able to prove Disney was both negligent and an abetting party. You would not be able to prove that. Thus, you would not win. Period. You would have a slight chance if you just sued the offending employee, but since the card carries 0% fraud liability, the only damages you'd be able to seek would be incidental damages such as loss of time and 'pain and suffering'. Which most likely would not fly very far in this hypothetical case.

I’ll let you know the outcome if it ever happens. Civil, Shmivil...he won the case that mattered.

 

[larryz]

I would definitely pay more to lower crowds. I love that idea!

Well, that was one of the original selling points for the hard-ticket parties -- enjoy the MK with smaller crowds.

 

[graphite1326]

one thing also Op, some times I suffer from "remember when-itis" if you went to Disney world during the late 90's and early 2000's (outside of 9/11) you remember Disney at literally it's golden age. It really was the standard for family vacations. The service was just really, really superb and it's hard some times to remember that and not feel like it's gone down.

You are right. Our first rip was 1996. We then went every-other-year. Usually October or November. Maybe we were spoiled. I do remember the service and the CMs were exceptional. The main reason we became hooked. We actually had booked a few weeks after 9/11. The airports and everything were less crowded. The last few trips have been with people wanting us to take them to WDW and I haven't really been able to enjoy going because I was so worried about them having a good time. However, the last trip we decided to skip a few years until the construction is done. And also, the magic just wasn't there for us. Maybe absence will make the heart grow fonder but it hasn't happened yet. Not looking good for 2018.

 

[Larry Mondello]

I'm not worried, to be honest I was mad, but I got the money back. Was it an evasion of privacy.... Yes. Could I have got the name of the cast member...Yes, from the credit card company. That was gonna take 2 months, and I was already to plan my next vacation, so when my lady at coustmer services worked out the free dinning, I felt no need to take it any further..... I probably wouldn't have regardless

So you got $150.00, free dining, anything else.