Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
It's not even the Epcot that Disney wants, which is why they demolished the center of it...
...and then gave up and are now building something similar in the same spot.
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Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind SPOILER Thread
- Thread starter Surferboy567
- Start date
It's not even the Epcot that Disney wants, which is why they demolished the center of it...
...and then gave up and are now building something similar in the same spot.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
It's only halfway dead -- Disney doesn't seem to care about having any kind of cohesive identity at EPCOT anymore, but they also keep instituting callbacks to when it was the greatest park in the world. I can only assume it's because they think it's valuable to remind people that it used to be an amazing park?
I also don't think this particular version of EPCOT is one that anybody wanted. It's just a random mishmash of things, some of which are pretty good and some of which are terrible, and none of it really fits together.
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James Alucobond
Well-Known Member
I’m not saying the pendulum will swing back; it probably never will. I just think it’s really interesting how close this feels to something that could have been appropriate in the past and disagreed with the notion that the fantastical framing device was out of character for the park. Of course, the fact that it feels pretty reprogrammable might have more to do with a fear that the Guardians star will fade over time than it has to do with the possibility that they’ll shift the theme of the park again.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
Really anything that mainly uses screens is relatively easy to change. That doesn't mean it's cheap (creating a bunch of new CGI sequences/filming new scenes with actors isn't cheap), but it's easier than ripping out physical items, fabricating new ones, and then installing them. It could basically be switched overnight.
Of course they'd want a testing period, so actually doing it overnight isn't really feasible, but it's still a far easier switch (with much less downtime) than anything that's based heavily on actual physical sets.
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yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Imagine missing the point . . . a second time
Incomudro
Well-Known Member
I don't think the poster misses the point at all.Imagine missing the point . . . a second time
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
Imagine missing the point . . . a second time
There’s a point? What point? How do I find the point. Oh help me I am ever so lost.
James Alucobond
Well-Known Member
True, true. I went off on a tangent about how easy it would be to re-program, but my main point was simply that the “built” story arc (learn about the galaxy in a galaxarium, look at models of cities and ships from an imagined hyper-advanced organization, experience their transport technology, and travel through their wormhole network to explore the Andromeda galaxy) is not really any more or less realistic than the premise of Body Wars. What is lacking is educational narration in the ride proper, but I don’t think there’s anything terribly dissonant about the pavilion’s general setup or the presence of a Xandar-like organization.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I agree with what you're staying to an extent -- I think the fact that Xandar is another planet with an alien species (even though they are indistinguishable from humans) is the aspect that would be most incongruous with classic EPCOT in that scenario. If you removed the Guardians and Eson and had the ride itself just be a journey through space, then replaced Xandar with some sort of fake future scientific organization from Earth, it would probably work better.
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doctornick
Well-Known Member
Hypothetically pretend the concept was a future human organization that perfected time travel and set up a pavilion today to showcase the tech and “push” humanity along. But there’s an accident and it goes awry and we get sent back to the big Bang
At least there are Xandarians staffing their pavilion, unlike for Morocco!!
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UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
Right, that's what I'm suggesting. Dump the Guardians and the whole Eson danger, change it from Xandar to a human organization, and it probably works decently well.
It would work better as a 10-15 minute slower paced journey through space with time to really focus on seeing things and hearing a narration, but that's a separate issue.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Let me see if I can break it down . . .There’s a point? What point? How do I find the point. Oh help me I am ever so lost.
Post I quoted: "You know, this ride fits the park way better than I expected – with a simple reskin one day it could be perfect.”
My Post: "A reskin is unlikely, because their whole point in building this ride was to use this skin.”
Your Post: "Ugh, ENOUGH with the debate about whether Marvel fits EPCOT or not!”
. . .
I get that you've got a thorn in your side about the prolonged Marvel/EPCOT fit discussion, but that actually wasn't what we were discussing.
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
The more I think about this, the more I really don't like that there's such an unbalance between the presentation of the queue and the ride itself (ONLY projection and lighting effects) and the story told within the ride portion. ALL of the story during the ride is dictated through onboard audio dialogue. If you can't hear the dialogue, then there is absolutely nothing in the visuals that will convey any sort of story to you. Compare this to Mission Breakout, where you would get the gist of what's happening even without any audio.
What bothers me most about all of the "recent" (since they go back pretty far now) IP attractions is that with a little more effort they could have made each IP work more appropriately.
The first IP changeover, more or less, was Gran Fiesta Tour in 2007. This is ironically the only one I feel they got right. You follow Donald around Mexico so you can see all the different sights and culture and stuff. Donald is always there, but it's about more than Donald.
Everything else, well, let's see:
Nemo - it could have been a field trip with Mr. Ray as you learn about coral reefs and stuff. Instead, it's just a recap/reboot of the movie.
Frozen - I guess somewhat harder to incorporate and I know they were itching to cash in on the Frozen craze as quickly as possible. There's not really any way to make it work. But I'm sure there could have been something better than yet another recap of the movie.
Ratatouille - This one seems like a no brainer. Remy wants to make a special French dish and you follow him around Paris as he steals the ingredients he needs. Strong emphasis on French cuisine and culture along the way. Instead, you're just... escaping, getting chased around the restaurant floor, because it was easier to just clone the ride as-is. The only thing that ties it to France is the fact that the movie takes place in Paris.
Guardians - as mentioned earlier in the thread, this is not the first time a fictional company with fictional technology has been used as the premise for an Epcot attraction. Right up until the last moment of the pre-show I was on board. "Okay, they're talking about Universe of Energy stuff... alright." But then, again, you're just escaping from the bad guy.
So out of these, Guardians at least has the strongest attempt to make it sort of fit the mission statement of Epcot, but it still doesn't.
I see we are still debating IP / Marvel in Epcot.
I’m sorry for all your loss - the old Epcot is dead.
What bothers me most about all of the "recent" (since they go back pretty far now) IP attractions is that with a little more effort they could have made each IP work more appropriately.
The first IP changeover, more or less, was Gran Fiesta Tour in 2007. This is ironically the only one I feel they got right. You follow Donald around Mexico so you can see all the different sights and culture and stuff. Donald is always there, but it's about more than Donald.
Everything else, well, let's see:
Nemo - it could have been a field trip with Mr. Ray as you learn about coral reefs and stuff. Instead, it's just a recap/reboot of the movie.
Frozen - I guess somewhat harder to incorporate and I know they were itching to cash in on the Frozen craze as quickly as possible. There's not really any way to make it work. But I'm sure there could have been something better than yet another recap of the movie.
Ratatouille - This one seems like a no brainer. Remy wants to make a special French dish and you follow him around Paris as he steals the ingredients he needs. Strong emphasis on French cuisine and culture along the way. Instead, you're just... escaping, getting chased around the restaurant floor, because it was easier to just clone the ride as-is. The only thing that ties it to France is the fact that the movie takes place in Paris.
Guardians - as mentioned earlier in the thread, this is not the first time a fictional company with fictional technology has been used as the premise for an Epcot attraction. Right up until the last moment of the pre-show I was on board. "Okay, they're talking about Universe of Energy stuff... alright." But then, again, you're just escaping from the bad guy.
So out of these, Guardians at least has the strongest attempt to make it sort of fit the mission statement of Epcot, but it still doesn't.
Centauri Space Station
Well-Known Member
That’s because it’s all screens on MB
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
I don’t think the argument that CR could be easily reskinned to remove the Guardians is much of a point in Disney’s favor. It’s actually a big part of the problem - CR doesn’t really fit in EPCOT AND it’s not a very good representation of the featured IP. It’s like they tried to hew a middle line and ended up with an attraction that is neither one thing or the other. The Guardians feel much more integral to MB, and that’s a reskin!
flynnibus
Premium Member
Lets cut to the chase… they aimed to build a ride that was fun first… some story second. They seemed to hit that mark
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
Yes! I've been pondering on this myself. They tried to simultaneously please Epcot fans and Marvel fans and resulted in an attraction that is not great at being either.
Definitely. Despite all my criticisms, it's definitely a fun ride. In fact, this is the type of coaster experience that Gringotts should have been.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Not sure what this comment has to do with my post, since I didn't say anything about story . . . but since we're chatting now, it seems a little bit of an oversimplification to say their main goal was just to make a fun ride, because they could have done that for far less than the $450 Million they spent.
The goal here was to capitalize on a big Marvel property in the hopes that it would be a huge draw for EPCOT. It seems like the ride is fun, and clearly that's by design - I don't think Disney ever sets out to build a ride that isn't fun. But you don't spend that much money when the bar is merely "fun". They think a major IP rolled up in a novel coaster system done on a large scale will reboot the park.
They swung big with the budget because the expectation is that this will be able to prop up everything else in EPCOT. Which is why it's so mystifying that the attraction is so relatively simple in the show department. They had enough money to make the most visually dazzling attraction in Florida several times over, and somehow missed . . . which is odd when this attraction is meant to blind people to the rest of EPCOT's shortcomings.
But it IS fun, it seems, so we'll see how much mileage they're able to get out of that.
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UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
Of course, when you're building a roller coaster, if it's not fun you've really failed badly. It's not difficult to make a coaster that people enjoy.