The booking ahead makes a huge difference. And a couple more big differences: 1) You can't (don't have to?) choose a return time with MP and 2) MP is an upcharge.
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Grand Villa Stays Qualify For Extra Fastpasses
- Thread starter rudyjr13
- Start date
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
The original idea behind FP was that Disney would make more money because people would spend money on food/merchandise while waiting in the virtual queue. Instead, people waited on standby for a different ride (or the same one) so the profit wasn't realized.
Then, they made FP+ where they planned to make money by a combination of getting higher occupancy and higher rates at Disney resorts by offering the 60 day window as a perk combined with operational efficiency gains.
It seems like those things aren't getting enough ROI so now they are looking for other ways to monetize the system.
FP was never designed as a guest benefit. Nobody was going to choose a Disney park over a competitor just for FP.
A complete virtual queue system like volcano bay could actually get higher guest spending. They'd have to eliminate the standby line completely and make all waits virtual. You would only be allowed to be in the queue for one attraction at a time (allowing some kind of exception when your reservation is over two hours away).
There would have to be limits to only allow one ride of each "tier 1 ride" so that people aren't unable to ride something like FoP.
The on site perk and/or upcharge could be a certain number of advanced reservations which some percentage of capacity would be dedicated to. The free/off site version would be first come first served like the original fast pass.
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Jon81uk
Well-Known Member
It can sort of be argued the the ability to book FP+ is an upcharge as you need a resort stay to book at 60 days, otherwise you only get 30 days.
Also at present at DLR MaxPass includes photos making it a good price just for photos if nothing else.
Fox&Hound
Well-Known Member
This makes me so sad. Why does Disney hate its middle class and lower class guests?????? If FP+ ends up monetized and you can't get fastpasses for the rides you want (plus the insane tier system assignments in some of the parks), and the parks are super crowded, I wonder how many quests will just stop coming. What will be the benefit for Annual Pass holders if they can't get passes for the rides they desire? Come on, Disney...
Capsin4
Well-Known Member
Express is limited too. Dynamic pricing helps but it does sell out.
Capsin4
Well-Known Member
This is the big failure IMO. Tapu Tapu got it right by limiting guests to one placeholder and not multiplying demand for rides.
deeevo
Well-Known Member
Don't forget tracking your spending habits and every move in and out of the parks.
BigThunderMatt
Well-Known Member
I mean...you kind of answered that question with your question. They can't afford upcharges, which means they are of less overall value to the company over Guests that do. Lower/middle class guess who only buy a park ticket and minimal food/merchandise add little to the company's profits and only exacerbate crowding issues. Pricing them out, making up the loss by upcharging guests that can afford it and ultimately making more money while increasing guest satisfaction by reducing crowds sounds awful but it makes perfect sense.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
Exactly. As a business, the goal isn't to do the most volume. The goal is to bring in the most revenue at the least cost. Walt's vision of a park for everybody was created in a very different time. First of all, the population was a lot lower so he needed to attract a higher percentage of the population to get enough people in the parks. Most importantly, with respect to WDW, the "everybody that has children MUST take a trip to WDW at all costs or they are a horrible parent" attitude had not been created yet. These and other factors have made it where more people desire to visit the parks than can be handled.
Adding attractions can only help to a point. Some days (and I never go anywhere near there on 7/4 or NYE) it is so crowded that I can't even stand walking from one side of MK to the other. There's just not enough space for that many people to have an enjoyable experience.
From a business perspective, if they could double the prices and half the crowds it would be ideal. The people that could still afford it would have a better time and it would cost Disney less to operate so they'd make more profit.
Years ago I was in the movie theatre business. I did an analysis on concession sales to figure out if lowering the prices made sense. I determined that we could gross significantly more but since the margins would be lower and it would take more staff to serve more people, we would make a lower profit by doing higher volume.
smile
Well-Known Member
BigThunderMatt
Well-Known Member
This, I think, is the biggest culprit when it comes to the overcrowding issues. A WDW vacation, for the last decade if not longer, has become something that people perceive as a rite of passage that everyone is entitled to, rather than seeing it for the luxury that it actually is. There are people who will go into massive debt to go to WDW or bug their friends/family for nothing but Disney gift cards for literally years to be able to cover the cost. WDW is something that you should only be doing if you can actually budget for, and afford it, and not owe anything on it when you leave (other than a few surprise costs here and there). And yes, that means there are going to be people who simply cannot afford to go. But just like not everyone will be able to afford a yacht, a luxury item, in their lifetime, so too will not everyone be able to afford a WDW vacation, also a luxury item, within their lifetime.
I know. Doesn't change the fact that many, many posters stated for years, unequivocally, that Disney would never charge for FastPasses. And those of us who said it was only a matter of time were proven right then, and could be proven right again.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
just for the record: Universal actually started with a free system just like FP where you scanned your ticket and got a return time but then changed to a paid EP at some point (though it has been a while). So, if anything, that a precedent for changing from free to paid.
I guess I meant the way it works vs the tech used. The Disneyland experience was much better.
Jon81uk
Well-Known Member
Yep and they completely scrapped all free options but also introduced “free” Express Pass at their deluxe resorts.
Jon81uk
Well-Known Member
And most people find it better as it doesn’t offer 60/30 day booking. MaxPass works because it’s the same old FasPass return time system just without the schlepping to attractions to collect times.
If I remember correctly you also were not limited to 3 a day. The whole 60 day booking thing is very annoying. I do it because I like planning for our trips but it's very stressful and annoying to have to think that far in advance where we are going to be when. The tiers in some parks also make it more difficult.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
I agree. I am also sure that there is a not insignificant percentage of people that spend way more than they can afford to go to WDW, put it all on credit cards and then end up filing bankruptcy to get out of the debt. At least people begging for Disney gift cards for years can pay for the trip.
This mentality doesn't make any sense to me. It would be really awesome to fly first class when I travel. However, I can't afford first class tickets so I travel in economy. It would also be a "bucket list" item to own a Ferrari. Well, I can't afford that either so I don't have one.
Almost worse is the trend in the last decade where people take their kids out of school to go to WDW during the "off season." Sure, it's great for Disney to spread the crowds out all year but I always shake my head when I see children that are clearly school aged in the parks on a Tuesday in October.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
Call me a terrible parent, but we pull our kids at least once a year for a long weekend (2 days missed usually). We are among those that do a Disney trip whenever we're able (last time was 2016), and we pull our kids for a week. Even kids need a mental health break once in a while.
PS - I've been complimented by more than a few of my kids' teachers for making travel and fun family time a priority.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
I don't think you are a terrible parent. I just think kids should maximize the time in school in general, especially young kids getting their base education.
When I was a child we took vacations when there were weeks (or months in the summer) off from school. With all the 3 day weekends and the normal breaks it's not like the kids are locked in school from August until May.