The_Jobu
Well-Known Member
It's frustrating. You can pretty much see the writer's thinking "we don't know what to do with these characters right now".
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Game of Thrones: Season 7
- Thread starter Princess Leia
- Start date
It's frustrating. You can pretty much see the writer's thinking "we don't know what to do with these characters right now".
I understand that GRRM needs to finish the books (and boy does he ever, looking at the plot of this season), but I really want to know if the showrunners discussed what they wanted the characters to be doing this season. Because in terms of the Stark kids (the real ones, anyways), it's painful to watch seasons of growth and development go out the window with 2/3 of them (Sansa is the one exception; I know she got a lot of flak for the early seasons, but she is the only one acting reasonable right now).
21stamps
Well-Known Member
Same.
I've already fallen for them.. which makes me feel kind of sick and twisted that I'm rooting for incest.lol
misterID
Well-Known Member
Okay, I know I was the biggest complainer since the first episode of the season that it felt like fan fiction and the writers are actually pretty horrible without George... Thank God for his outline.... But the logic of the season is baffling. Its the shortest season of any other and contains the shortest episode... Why? When you have so many loose ends and a VERY significant romance/relationship to build on, yet you invest so little to it. In this episode you saw how rushed and condensed for time it was. The trek beyond the wall paused several times, identically, for characters to stop, have an interaction, do some character development as to justify their sudden intersection beyond the wall. The Hound and Torrmund, Jon and Jorah, Gendry and Thoros, etc. And Arya, the master of spying and disguises, gets outwitted and manipulated by LF... Gimme a break. Sansa's character should have never left his side to marry Ramsay, which defied logic by itself. Yet, they wasted so much time with Sam and his chamber pots and Arya with the Lannister troops... Its ridiculous.
Having said all that... I can't wait until next week
Having said all that... I can't wait until next week
The_Jobu
Well-Known Member
I felt bad when I noticed they had redshirts with them dragging supplies. You just knew they were going to be used as examples.
misterID
Well-Known Member
Lol, I called them redshirts too.
And wouldn't it have made more sense if Jon charged the Night King and thrown an ax at him to prevent that second ice spear throw? It was established that they could end it all by killing the NK but Jon just seemed to be cutting down zombie soldiers for no reason.
And wouldn't it have made more sense if Jon charged the Night King and thrown an ax at him to prevent that second ice spear throw? It was established that they could end it all by killing the NK but Jon just seemed to be cutting down zombie soldiers for no reason.
I think that there have been good things about this season (cutting back on the sexposition is a major bonus in my book, and the battle scenes have been gorgeous to witness), but the plot has really suffered. Like @The_Jobu and @misterID have mentioned, the writers seem lost without GRRM's blueprint, and it's becoming pretty apparent in places.
Examples:
Note- Jason Momoa was never a part of the opening credits, so I chose not to include Drogo on this list. Daario & Jaqen were left over in Essos, but don't appear to be a part of this story any more. Ellaria is possibly still alive at this point in the show (her daughter, however, is not), but her actress has stated that she will no longer be appearing, so it's safe to assume that Ellaria will eventually die.
There are currently 12 main characters who have stayed alive (well, in Jon's case, mostly alive) since the first season (15 if you include Varys, Sam, and Bronn). While I think that's pretty incredible, how long can it last?
Examples:
- The Greyjoys. Where oh where is this thing going? We haven't seen a Greyjoy since Episode 4 (though I think we'll see Theon next week). Previous seasons would have shown Theon wallowing in guilt over leaving Yara, or perhaps Yara getting tortured by her uncle Euron, but this season we've got nothing. Speaking of Euron, can we talk about overhyped characters or what? If you were going by interviews alone, you'd think he'd be in every episode, hamming it up, but he's been missing since the third episode. The show either needs to let Theon go out as a hero, saving Yara by killing Euron (who in turn kills him with his last bit of strength or something), or pull a Red Wedding and make Theon's attempt at heroics pointless, ending in both his and Yara's deaths.
- Jon/Dany romance. The show is headed in this direction (whether I want it to or not), and it's... not been great. Their chemistry is severely lacking, especially when you put them next to their former romantic interests (Jon/Ygritte, Dany/Drogo). Unfortunately, there have only been 4 episodes to develop this relationship, and despite several characters talking about it (Davos, Tyrion, Missandei), I'd rather believe it with my own eyes
- The Starks. How the hell are they messing up the Starks??? I know I've defended Bran's lack of personality (due to him having millions of memories stuffed in his head now), but his lack of appearances around his sisters feels super off. The three of them should be having discussions about what they've been up to for the past 4 years, but what do we get? Arya becoming a sociopath, that's what. ????????? Unless this is a ploy by the writers to trick us, Arya is getting majorly played by Littlefinger, and has now resorted to threatening her sister's life. Wth?! I understand that she's been through hell and back, but there is no reason for her not to share her story with Sansa, and vice versa. And if they don't believe each other, they can just talk to their brother about setting some facts straight, which would lead to them discovering that Littlefinger is playing them.
- Jaime........... They set it up last season to make it look like he was potentially going to leave Cersei after she burned part of King's Landing. And what happened? He's still with her.
- "________ hasn't been around in a few episodes." This could apply to a few members of the main cast, but these are the ones worth mentioning: Theon, Brienne, Melisandre (essentially out on maternity leave until Season 8), Tormund, Bronn, and Sandor. After a great first episode, Sandor wasn't seen until Episode 5. That felt a little off to me (as a main cast member, he has only been in 4 episodes over the past 2 seasons, but at least that made sense in Season 6). Brienne has had next to nothing to do this season, which is a damn shame. I'm excited for her reunion with Jaime next episode though. Bronn had 2 good episodes... and then boom, gone again.
- A reluctance to kill off some major characters. Believe it or not, but Ellaria Sand is the only main character to have died this season (Sand Snakes, Olenna, Thoros, and Viserion the Dragon- RIP- were all secondary characters). We haven't seen this kind of reluctance to cull the main cast since season 2 (or season 5, since Jon's death was temporary).
Note- Jason Momoa was never a part of the opening credits, so I chose not to include Drogo on this list. Daario & Jaqen were left over in Essos, but don't appear to be a part of this story any more. Ellaria is possibly still alive at this point in the show (her daughter, however, is not), but her actress has stated that she will no longer be appearing, so it's safe to assume that Ellaria will eventually die.
There are currently 12 main characters who have stayed alive (well, in Jon's case, mostly alive) since the first season (15 if you include Varys, Sam, and Bronn). While I think that's pretty incredible, how long can it last?
Last edited:
The_Jobu
Well-Known Member
I feel all your points. And that chart speaks volumes.
I'm putting together a list of the supporting cast and their survival (slow day at work), and that's where the deaths seem to be really strong.
Alright, new charts. Bit of a explanation first- I decided to add Drogo to the main cast. Even though he wasn't in the main credits, Jason Momoa is the only cast member to be billed as 'Also Starring' in the end credits. Secondly, I decided to not add the characters who have appeared in Bran's flashbacks (Ned, Ser Rodrick) in Season 6 for the supporting list. Rodrick is only going to count as a supporting character when he was alive. Wikipedia's list of supporting characters is compromised of those who have appeared in at least 10 episodes while maintaining a 'Recurring' status. So, no Oberyn, Lysa, Mance, Balon Greyjoy, or any Tarlys not named Sam. Asterisks next to names under Supporting Cast means they were credited as a guest that season, as opposed to 'recurring'.
What was I most surprised to find? Podrick is still a 'supporting' character. I checked on IMDB, and he's been in 30 episodes (which will probably be bumped to 31 next week). When you compare it to the surviving main cast, Melisandre has been in 28 episodes, Gilly in 23, and Gendry in 19 (Daario was in 18 episodes, and Jaqen in 17). Unless we see Edd next week (we sure as heck won't see Pycelle), Podrick becomes the surviving supporting character with the most episodes.
Main Cast
Supporting Cast
This wasn't a perfect way to show this, but I think it's one of the cleanest. Renly only appeared in 8 episodes, so his death in season 2 is worth mentioning here. Season 6 culled a lot of characters (including more that aren't listed here). Supporting Cast
What was I most surprised to find? Podrick is still a 'supporting' character. I checked on IMDB, and he's been in 30 episodes (which will probably be bumped to 31 next week). When you compare it to the surviving main cast, Melisandre has been in 28 episodes, Gilly in 23, and Gendry in 19 (Daario was in 18 episodes, and Jaqen in 17). Unless we see Edd next week (we sure as heck won't see Pycelle), Podrick becomes the surviving supporting character with the most episodes.
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21stamps
Well-Known Member
I think that there have been good things about this season (cutting back on the sexposition is a major bonus in my book, and the battle scenes have been gorgeous to witness), but the plot has really suffered. Like @The_Jobu and @misterID have mentioned, the writers seem lost without GRRM's blueprint, and it's becoming pretty apparent in places.
Examples:
- The Greyjoys. Where oh where is this thing going? We haven't seen a Greyjoy since Episode 4 (though I think we'll see Theon next week). Previous seasons would have shown Theon wallowing in guilt over leaving Yara, or perhaps Yara getting tortured by her uncle Euron, but this season we've got nothing. Speaking of Euron, can we talk about overhyped characters or what? If you were going by interviews alone, you'd think he'd be in every episode, hamming it up, but he's been missing since the third episode. The show either needs to let Theon go out as a hero, saving Yara by killing Euron (who in turn kills him with his last bit of strength or something), or pull a Red Wedding and make Theon's attempt at heroics pointless, ending in both his and Yara's deaths.
- Jon/Dany romance. The show is headed in this direction (whether I want it to or not), and it's... not been great. Their chemistry is severely lacking, especially when you put them next to their former romantic interests (Jon/Ygritte, Dany/Drogo). Unfortunately, there have only been 4 episodes to develop this relationship, and despite several characters talking about it (Davos, Tyrion, Missandei), I'd rather believe it with my own eyes
- The Starks. How the hell are they messing up the Starks??? I know I've defended Bran's lack of personality (due to him having millions of memories stuffed in his head now), but his lack of appearances around his sisters feels super off. The three of them should be having discussions about what they've been up to for the past 4 years, but what do we get? Arya becoming a sociopath, that's what. ????????? Unless this is a ploy by the writers to trick us, Arya is getting majorly played by Littlefinger, and has now resorted to threatening her sister's life. Wth?! I understand that she's been through hell and back, but there is no reason for her not to share her story with Sansa, and vice versa. And if they don't believe each other, they can just talk to their brother about setting some facts straight, which would lead to them discovering that Littlefinger is playing them.
- Jaime........... They set it up last season to make it look like he was potentially going to leave Cersei after she burned part of King's Landing. And what happened? He's still with her.
- "________ hasn't been around in a few episodes." This could apply to a few members of the main cast, but these are the ones worth mentioning: Theon, Brienne, Melisandre (essentially out on maternity leave until Season 8), Tormund, Bronn, and Sandor. After a great first episode, Sandor wasn't seen until Episode 5. That felt a little off to me (as a main cast member, he has only been in 4 episodes over the past 2 seasons, but at least that made sense in Season 6). Brienne has had next to nothing to do this season, which is a damn shame. I'm excited for her reunion with Jaime next episode though. Bronn had 2 good episodes... and then boom, gone again.
- A reluctance to kill off some major characters. Believe it or not, but Ellaria Sand is the only main character to have died this season (Sand Snakes, Olenna, Thoros, and Viserion the Dragon- RIP- were all secondary characters). We haven't seen this kind of reluctance to cull the main cast since season 2 (or season 5, since Jon's death was temporary).
Note- Jason Momoa was never a part of the opening credits, so I chose not to include Drogo on this list. Daario & Jaqen were left over in Essos, but don't appear to be a part of this story any more. Ellaria is possibly still alive at this point in the show (her daughter, however, is not), but her actress has stated that she will no longer be appearing, so it's safe to assume that Ellaria will eventually die.
There are currently 12 main characters who have stayed alive (well, in Jon's case, mostly alive) since the first season (15 if you include Varys, Sam, and Bronn). While I think that's pretty incredible, how long can it last?
I had more of a connection to Olenna than I did to Ellaria.
Maybe even more disappointed to see the dragon killed than Ellaria. Lol
21stamps
Well-Known Member
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/gam...beyond-the-wall-timeline-director-1202534403/ At least someone in charge knows that the timeline's messed up. I was so thankful for Sansa's line about it being 'weeks' since she'd heard from Jon.
misterID
Well-Known Member
Jon would have been gone for months by this point. They had many opportunities to build on Jon and Dany's relationship but it comes down to poor writing. They could have saved so much time, for instance, when she grants Jon permission to mine the Dragon glass. How about he's brooding on the cliff, the dragon appears behind him. Dany witnesses him bond with Rhaegal, who he's inevitably going to ride anyway, she's blown away, he mentions he has a wolf, they bond and show some chemistry, you wrap all this up in episode 2. Yet we get some more scenes of Jon brooding. And the scene in the cave was a big missed opportunity. They could have had a dinner scene, a walk, or something, show them bonding. The idea of marriage should have been brought up already when just last season, in the last episode she and Tyrion talked about uniting houses and support through marriage.
What would have stopped Gendry from going north? Everyone knew Stannis was dead, Dragonstone was lost, Dany is back, yet he's still working for the Lannisters. Could have put this in episode one.
Why didn't Arya show up at WF in episode one? She could have run into the BWB and The Hound, huge reunion, no need for a Hotpie exposition scene. Have a reunion that matters.
Fan service is nice but there's a reason fans make crummy writers.
What would have stopped Gendry from going north? Everyone knew Stannis was dead, Dragonstone was lost, Dany is back, yet he's still working for the Lannisters. Could have put this in episode one.
Why didn't Arya show up at WF in episode one? She could have run into the BWB and The Hound, huge reunion, no need for a Hotpie exposition scene. Have a reunion that matters.
Fan service is nice but there's a reason fans make crummy writers.
TiggerDad
Well-Known Member
Yes, it will be interesting to see what the Night King does with the ice dragon. It looked like he planned for the dragons, bringing three spears to ambush the raiding party and holding off on attacking to give time for the dragons to come to the rescue. He must have a plan for the dragon. Does a flying ice dragon allow them to fly over the wall that they are unable to cross by land?
Why fly over the wall when you've got a dragon who could probably break it?
TiggerDad
Well-Known Member
Sorry, not a dragon expert. Isn't it a magic wall? How does the dragon break the wall? Smash into it?