GAC to Become DAS

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flynnibus

Premium Member
Disney doesn't "cater" to people with disabilities.

Disney has a long history of catering to this audience through it's customer service choices and offerings. Disney very much has catered to the disabled, the overweight, homosexuals, and more. Disney has embraced them and offered services/recognition well beyond what they are legally required to for many years. Many people felt welcome and embraced by Disney while they felt shunned or ignored at other locations.

Unfortunately that open arms policy when combined with our society.. leads to many people slumping into thinking they need such accommodation and others who feel they are owed it.

Disney's open arms have created a monster.
 

duchess1

Active Member
I would say Tell that to this mob.

They gave Autism Hippie 33 FastPasses and I hope all severely autistic children will and should receive them. These children can become obsessed with one ride, hence the need for the unlimited FastPass. You tell the child no and they go ballistic. It is either that or these kids can't do Disney and that is not fair to them or their non-disabled siblings.

But giving the unlimited fastpass was causing the system to break down for ALL the guests. That isn't "fair" either. Many kids can't do Disney at all because of economics so according to your logic, Disney should just be free so everyone can go. There are many families that have hardships, some so awful that you can't even imagine - where is their Disney trip?
 
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darthspielberg

Well-Known Member
The biggest issue that I see with most autistic children and taking away their passes, is routine. Most come to the parks more than once, and have favorite rides that they want to do over and over again. The patttern is comforting.

Limiting them to one ride at a time will throw routine off quite a bit, and that's going to upset some kids AND Parents.

But I will say it was nice to see Disney's official press statement, which I think did it's best to word it in a way that is helpful (and their mention of being willing to work with people was nice, even if it's probably not more than "we'll listen to your problems then tell you that the DAS is the only thing we can offer")
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
They gave Autism Hippie 33 FastPasses and I hope all severely autistic children will and should receive them. These children can become obsessed with one ride, hence the need for the unlimited FastPass. You tell the child no and they go ballistic. It is either that or these kids can't do Disney and that is not fair to them or their non-disabled siblings.

And how does re-enforcing this behavior help these kids integrate in the rest of their lives?

'thats not fair' does not extend to forcing the entire world to revolve around a single person's needs.
 

Gomer

Well-Known Member
And how does re-enforcing this behavior help these kids integrate in the rest of their lives?

'thats not fair' does not extend to forcing the entire world to revolve around a single person's needs.

It doesn't. But what you are facing is the wrath of people who are losing that one good thing.

Analogy time :)
Imagine you are eating liver and brussel sprouts every day (sorry to anyone who likes liver and brussel sprouts) except for Sundays where you are allowed to eat chocolate cake. Everyone around you eats chicken every day (seems like a good choice for normal). You are getting a raw deal 6 days out of the week and a great deal on Sundays. But now someone comes along and says Sundays you need to eat chicken like everyone else. You now have 6 days of Brussel Sprouts and 1 day of chicken. To the people you are eating with on Sunday, that seems fair, but you know how much the rest of your week is going to suck. So, you are upset.

Disney was a place where people living hard lives got to get special treatment for a few days or a week. And people are losing something that was a huge gift to them. We all lost our chocolate cake, so they are going to be ed whether their Sundays are fair or not. This is not to say the outcry is correct. But I do think it is understandable during this transition period.

Finally, just to protect myself for the 16th time in this thread. I am not against the change, I understand the need for it. I'm just trying to give a glimpse into the mental state of those affected by it.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I'm just trying to give a glimpse into the mental state of those affected by it.

It's one thing to be upset or not like it - its another thing to argue you NEED it and then try to justify it with things that are conditioned habit vs actual need/requirement. That's the problem most have with those fighting the change and why the word 'entitlement' gets thrown around so much.
 

Gomer

Well-Known Member
It's one thing to be upset or not like it - its another thing to argue you NEED it and then try to justify it with things that are conditioned habit vs actual need/requirement. That's the problem most have with those fighting the change and why the word 'entitlement' gets thrown around so much.

That was sort of my point. Let things settle down for a while and the truly entitled will be separated from those who are just having an emotional reaction to losing something precious to them. Not everyone who is complaining is doing it rationally. Once things calm a bit and the system has been in use for a while (assuming it functions properly and isn't destroyed completely) I think people will start to come around and may even see it as a good thing. I think a lot of people will be surprised by their disabled loved one's abilities to wait. A lot of times we parents (speaking solely for the autism folks) underestimate our children and their ability to adapt because it appears so difficult for them. It’s no different than wanting to keep your child from getting injured. We may go overboard to protect them. But they will surprise you with how much they can handle sometimes, and I would bet some parents will find their children were more capable of waiting than they even knew. And some extreme cases won't, and I feel for them. But, 2 months from now, my guess will be the complaints will have calmed down to just the truly affected and truly entitled. The rest will fade.
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
They gave Autism Hippie 33 FastPasses and I hope all severely autistic children will and should receive them. These children can become obsessed with one ride, hence the need for the unlimited FastPass. You tell the child no and they go ballistic. It is either that or these kids can't do Disney and that is not fair to them or their non-disabled siblings.

Remember the press was everywhere yesterday.

While my heart goes out to families with Autistic children, this is the very practice that has to end with GAC. There are just too many parents that want their children to be allowed to keep passing the same guests in the stand-by queue so their families can keep re-experiencing the same attraction. If parents abuse those special FPs by re-experiencing the same attraction over and over, those parents will ruin that courtesy for future families and it will be eliminated too. Adults need to think forward about how their decisions and actions will effect others down the line. FPs will be the rarity not the norm or Disney will tank DAS. Disney researched Autism with Autism advocates extensively and one of the things that became clear, no where else did Autism grant so many special privileges to families as Disney does and it has tanked Disney's ability to operate the parks as designed. Being on the Autism Spectrum hugely impacts Disney's ability to operate the parks effectively for all of their guests. Disney needed to be educated about how schools dealt with Autism and outbursts and it wasn't catering to outbursts during the school day. Disney came away with a better understanding of what is offered out in the real world and how parents parent differently outside the World.

My guess is the majority of parents will find strategies to deal with their Autistic children at Disney the same way they are forced to find solutions every day outside of Disney. Even with GAC gone, I'm laying odds guests with ADA issues will continue to visit Disney if they are willing to adjust their demands and expectations.
 

fosse76

Well-Known Member
That is not what I said. I quoted someone who stored those with physical disabilities would be more readily helped now while chastising the idea of autistic people being the complainers because they were abusers. The opposite is proving true. Many people in wheelchairs are being denied access to the program and being told it is for the autistic.

People in wheelchairs don't need this program unless they have another underlying problem that prohibits them from being in a queue (such as Autism). The ADA is, essentially, about physical access to something. It has nothing to do with granting an equal experience, because there really is no such thing. If the queue is large enough to accommodate a wheelchair and it leads to the load area or alternative load area, Disney has met its obligation under the law. If you don't like being in crowded situations, that's too bad. That in itself is NOT a qualification for ADA accommodation. And no one said that autistic people were abusers. They've been saying that autism is the disability of choice for abusers. It enables them to claim the hyperactivity of their non-physically-disabled child as a disability since Disney doesn't require proof.

Theme parks have used the exit for boarding simply because it was generally easier to make that area accessible than it was the queue. But as has been said numerous times, there is absolutely NO reason that access should be immediate. Disney simply cannot offer an "equal" experience because there is no such thing. Not all guests will experience the same number of attractions, not all guests spend the same amount of time in the parks, not all guests tire at the same time. Everyone has a different experience. As a single rider at WDW, there are times I've been made to wait off to the side, adding an additional 10 minutes to my wait...and that's for an able-bodied person. So I certainly don't have the same experience as the group behind me. OTH, at DLR as a single rider, the single rider lines exist on 3 major attractions in DL and 5 at DCA, so I can get a LOT done in a shorter amount of time than other non-single guests, again, making my experience unequal to others. So let's stop trying to claim that the system is about or should be about equal experiences.

I know folks here have no issue with those having severe enough physical disabilities to make them full time wheelies get a little extra help. I'm telling you that is not how the program is being applied initially.
Again, it's about physical access. This system provides that. If there is another condition that prevents someone from being able to be in that queue, Disney will accommodate that. But simply being uncomfortable in the queue is NOT a condition that should grant someone a DAS.

I'm not getting into current thread fervor over that one mom FB poster because that is the straw man. She's being brought out so people in favor of the change can go on with their gripes about abusers.
She's an example of why the system didn't work. She's the poster child of the abusers. And let's not mince words, the disabled are often just as capable of exploiting their own disabilities for an advantage as those with little-to no-disability who lie to get the advantage are. And unfortunately it's not uncommon.

Meanwhile the people who probably needed a program to help them have a vacation anywhere near comparable to a regular guest are being denied. (A guest with a severe mobility disability never was able just get directly on a ride as you experienced in the Safari wheelie queue.)
A disabled guest is unlikely to ever have a comparable experience to that of a non-disabled guest. So let's stop with that nonsense argument. While it is unfortunate that being in a wheelchair may cause a guest to experience less attractions than someone not in a wheelchair, it is not incmbent on Disney to level the playing field.
 

Pinkerton

Banned
And how does re-enforcing this behavior help these kids integrate in the rest of their lives?

Are you kidding me? What you are seeing is it for the severely autistic. They can't be taught to understand. They are like a two year old in a grownups body. Again, for those who have children who are mildly-autistic, they should be the ones weaning their children off the unlimited FOTL FastPass system that GAC afforded them because those children do have a chance to learn and become productive citizens.
 

fosse76

Well-Known Member
They gave Autism Hippie 33 FastPasses and I hope all severely autistic children will and should receive them. These children can become obsessed with one ride, hence the need for the unlimited FastPass. You tell the child no and they go ballistic. It is either that or these kids can't do Disney and that is not fair to them or their non-disabled siblings.
Life isn't fair. And riding a ride over and over again is not a reasonable solution. It may make the parents' lives easier at that moment, but that is NOT Disney's responsibility. It's also not the respnsibility of the other guests in the park. Last night at The Phantom of the Opera on Broadway, a group of special needs adults arrived at the theater shortly after the performance started. A few of them were constantly groaning and moaning, which was of course disturbing those around them. The manager didn't hesitate to tell complaining theatergoers that these people also deserve to have a good time at the theater, and to try and be sympathetic. But he would move those who complained to another seat, and also stated to the group's chaperones that if the disruptions become too much, the group may be asked to leave.

There are limitations in life. Everyone has them. And while everyone should try to help each other out, it should not be at the expense of others. A little inconvenience is one thing (like having to wait an extra cycle every so often so someone who has a disability can participate), but when the accomodations to limitations become more than a minor inconvenience, it cannot be the responsibility of the public to cater to those needs.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Are you kidding me? What you are seeing is it for the severely autistic. They can't be taught to understand. They are like a two year old in a grownups body. Again, for those who have children who are mildly-autistic, they should be the ones weaning their children off the unlimited FOTL FastPass system that GAC afforded them because those children do have a chance to learn and become productive citizens.

You didn't answer the question. How does re-enforcing the behavior help them integrate for the rest of their lives where they WON'T get to repeat something ad nauseum? You want to give in and encourage this behavior by rewarding it.

And don't say they don't understand... they may not understand consequences but they understand the reward. Else why else do you take them to Disney in the first place if you don't think they enjoy it?
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
The biggest issue that I see with most autistic children and taking away their passes, is routine. Most come to the parks more than once, and have favorite rides that they want to do over and over again. The patttern is comforting.

Limiting them to one ride at a time will throw routine off quite a bit, and that's going to upset some kids AND Parents.

But I will say it was nice to see Disney's official press statement, which I think did it's best to word it in a way that is helpful (and their mention of being willing to work with people was nice, even if it's probably not more than "we'll listen to your problems then tell you that the DAS is the only thing we can offer")

But how is that different from children not on the spectrum? How many of us have not had our children go into a meltdown for not getting what they want? If the Parent has trained the child into a routine as you say, that at Disney you will get what you want when you want as many times as you want, that is a parenting issue, not an ADA issue.

No is a word adults and children do not want to hear. Breaking from a routine of not saying No at Disney isn't teaching children anything, it is a mix message and a disservice.
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
There's an alternative view of the DAS experience over on Temporary tourist on how the experience is at WDW from a family with an autistic family member it sounds very different than the previously mentioned Video blog.
 

Pinkerton

Banned
You didn't answer the question. How does re-enforcing the behavior help them integrate for the rest of their lives where they WON'T get to repeat something ad nauseum? You want to give in and encourage this behavior by rewarding it.

And don't say they don't understand... they may not understand consequences but they understand the reward. Else why else do you take them to Disney in the first place if you don't think they enjoy it?

Why don't you ask Disney this because they are the ones who relaxed DAS 3 days ago to accommodate those with severe autism and to "re-enforce this terrible behavior". Maybe they have a heart unlike you and half the posters on this thread. Boohoo, so you have to wait an extra 5 minutes in line so someone who will never be able to experience life as we know it have a little fun. Get over it because FOTL unlimited FastPass is here to stay for those with severe autism as it should.

From Autism Speaks:
While each situation will be handled individually at Guest Relations, following are two examples of accommodations that could be offered based on a guest’s needs:

For a guest whose disability enables them to be in the park for only a limited time, the guest might be offered an accommodation that enables them to use the DAS Card in conjunction with access to a number of attractions without having to obtain a return time.
  • Another potential accommodation, based on a guest’s unique needs, might include providing access to a favorite attraction multiple times in a row without having to obtain a return time.
If you need more information or have specific questions about an upcoming trip, please send an email to disability.services@disneyparks.com. If you are planning a vacation in the next few months, please include a contact phone number and the best time for us to reach you.
 

minninedaisy74

Active Member
Are you kidding me? What you are seeing is it for the severely autistic. They can't be taught to understand. They are like a two year old in a grownups body. Again, for those who have children who are mildly-autistic, they should be the ones weaning their children off the unlimited FOTL FastPass system that GAC afforded them because those children do have a chance to learn and become productive citizens.
So then all 2 year old children should receive FOLP? Oh and for what is worth 2 year olds are teachable so if severely Autistic children is as you say like two year olds then why aren't the teachable also? I think it is insulting to describe these individuals as unteachable.
 

minninedaisy74

Active Member
Why don't you ask Disney this because they are the ones who relaxed DAS 3 days ago to accommodate those with severe autism and to "re-enforce this terrible behavior". Maybe they have a heart unlike you and half the posters on this thread. Boohoo, so you have to wait an extra 5 minutes in line so someone who will never be able to experience life as we know it have a little fun. Get over it because FOTL unlimited FastPass is here to stay for those with severe autism as it should.

From Autism Speaks:
While each situation will be handled individually at Guest Relations, following are two examples of accommodations that could be offered based on a guest’s needs:

For a guest whose disability enables them to be in the park for only a limited time, the guest might be offered an accommodation that enables them to use the DAS Card in conjunction with access to a number of attractions without having to obtain a return time.
  • Another potential accommodation, based on a guest’s unique needs, might include providing access to a favorite attraction multiple times in a row without having to obtain a return time.
If you need more information or have specific questions about an upcoming trip, please send an email to disability.services@disneyparks.com. If you are planning a vacation in the next few months, please include a contact phone number and the best time for us to reach you.
Autism Hippy is that you?????
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Why don't you ask Disney this because they are the ones who relaxed DAS 3 days ago to accommodate those with severe autism and to "re-enforce this terrible behavior". Maybe they have a heart unlike you and half the posters on this thread. Boohoo, so you have to wait an extra 5 minutes in line so someone who will never be able to experience life as we know it have a little fun. Get over it because FOTL unlimited FastPass is here to stay for those with severe autism as it should.

There you go attacking vs having rational discussion again. You've proven your incapable of having an adult conversation on the topic. buh bye... pl0nk
 

ddrongowski

Well-Known Member
I love this... the woman argues her kid gets violent and out of control and that's why they should give her a FOTL pass. How about.. if your child is violent and out of control - they shouldn't be allowed in the park period. If they become a threat or danger to other guests they should be removed from the park.

And the funny part 'I guess universal studios here we come!' - obviously hasn't done her homework :)
I agree completely, She is using her son as a threat to peoples safety. If he is such a threat, he should not be around people. I'd like to ask her what security should do to her son when he attacks people.
 

IWantMyMagicBand

Well-Known Member
And this within it:
. We saw several examples of families calmly explaining their concerns with the program (especially those with children on the autism spectrum) and getting extra help. Some families received re-admit passes (basically a pass for immediate access to the alternate entrance) or were assisted with FASTPASS+ planning to help ensure their day go as smoothly as possible.
 
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