GAC to Become DAS

[JerseyDad]

No - because it's not illegal, nor against the ADA act to go BEYOND the minimum. Come on man, think that one through. You're going to make it illegal to offer MORE services? That doesn't even pass the sniff test.



No, that is one part of the ADA...



They are also supposed to be able to participate. Hence why the standards have been applied to things like playgrounds, amusement attractions, pools, etc. I agree with what you are trying to get across.. but what you are actually saying is not accurate.

Disney was by choice going above and beyond the law's requirements - that is not illegal.
The ADA does not require making the disabled person 'happier' or the like - just ensure they are allowed equal opportunity within reasonable accommodations. But that is a slippery slope because it can be interpreted wildly when the disability puts the person at a disadvantage that COULD be improved upon. But in general the idea is 'get you to the starting line...' and where you go from there is up to the individual.

.....I'm not the one that makes anything illegal ....the law does. The law says that you cannot afford one person or group of persons benefits that are not the same as those that are provided to another person or group (aka: equal)

.....what Disney is saying (now) is that everyone that comes to their parks has an equal opportunity to be on a stand-by line in order to access the attraction.

Additionally, every person that enters their parks has the opportunity to opt to access an attraction by going to a Fastpass entrance line ...after acquiring a ticket with a predetermined return time. The DAS falls into this category.

Disney cannot go "above and beyond" to one group of people ....without negatively impacting another.

Where is any group being denied the chance to participate?

Should there now be separate ADA Laws that only apply to certain groups ...because their affliction (in their minds) is worse than one that another person or group of persons has? Advocates for the ADA Laws fought to make everyone equal ....and now because equality is inconvenient ...they are in an uproar?

 

[IWantMyMagicBand]

Again.....George Orwell

 

[minninedaisy74]

N

There was no description of the handicapped person behaving badly. The description was of a woman saying, "Yes, I want a seat on the bus."

I am going to ask you to think about what you said. People get fat because they don't get enough exercise.

Now think about how that might apply to someone in a wheelchair.

I am actually disgusted that this thread has turned into a bunch of people picking on the handicapped. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I assume that one day, you will understand why you shouldn't pick on the handicapped (even if they are fat) and will stop.

I have to bail on this.

Continue on with your selfish, spoiled, cruel whining about those handicapped people and how their wheelchairs inconvenience you. I won't stop you.

No one is hating on the disabled but being obese should not be a disability . Oh and there is a big difference between a wheelchair and a rent a scooter at Disney! I find it funny that you are critizing some of us for being judgemental but you in fact are doing the same you know with words like selfish, spoiled , and cruel.

 

[PirateFrank]

There was no description of the handicapped person behaving badly. The description was of a woman saying, "Yes, I want a seat on the bus."

I am going to ask you to think about what you said. People get fat because they don't get enough exercise.

Now think about how that might apply to someone in a wheelchair.

Please! People get fat for more than just that....and no one forced them into that wheelchair or scooter. A person riding a scooter due to obesity is doing so out of comfort. Not necessity. I'm not going to come out and say an obese person can not ride a scooter. so lets not go down that road. If he or she wants to do so, fine. But I absolutely object to the modern blurring of the definition of "disabled" due to people too heavy to walk the parks without getting off their and getting some exercise. Too many obese people on these things aren't disabusing people of the notion that they aren't handicapped, when they start taking advantage of accommodations...and who would? You get to force sleeping kids out of a bus seat so you can continue to sit on your .

And for the record....I interpreted the original post as the woman making a senseless demand instead of a request for help. Moreover, just in case you think I'm some skinny guy that likes to dump on fatties without perspective. You're way off. My feet hurt something fierce after a good 5-6 hours in the parks, all because I'm not nearly as fit I should be. The differences is I'm not asking for anyone's help getting around the parks.

I am actually disgusted that this thread has turned into a bunch of people picking on the handicapped. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I assume that one day, you will understand why you shouldn't pick on the handicapped (even if they are fat) and will stop.

I have to bail on this.

Continue on with your selfish, spoiled, cruel whining about those handicapped people and how their wheelchairs inconvenience you. I won't stop you.

Oh get a grip, sister. This isn't about handicapped people inconveniencing non-handicapped people. It's about abusers of a handicapped assistance program (by both non-handicapped, partially handicapped and fully handicapped people) that have been stealing value from regular park guests for at least 2 decades. The gravy train seems to be coming to a halt. If that offends you, you can always go to universal. Oh wait, they do it the GAS way too.....

 

[Figaro928]

Geez - this is a hot topic! What it boils down to is Ethics on all sides of the equation. Is it ethical for someone for someone who is not wheelchair/scooter bound outside of Disney to get special privileges inside of Disney for them and their families? And on the flip side is it ethical for people to criticize people who may have a hidden disabilities?

It's a toughy - But I think Disney got it mostly right with the new policy. Again - there are always exceptions. But as an able bodied guest - I wouldn't have a problem with allowing any child with any disability (and their family) to go straight to the front of the line.

 

[flynnibus]

.....I'm not the one that makes anything illegal ....the law does. The law says that you cannot afford one person or group of persons benefits that are not the same as those that are provided to another person or group (aka: equal)

No it doesn't... you're dropping words and changing the meaning to suit your belief. You don't decide what's illegal.. but you can misinterpret what you read.

The law as written says

"No individual shall be discriminated against on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation."

Highlighted the important part for you and why does NOT say 'everyone must be equal' - it says you can't discriminate against people on the basis of a disability. And disability is described prior having the impairment or record of impairment.

That is not the same as saying 'as having or not having a disability'

Additionally, one should read the PURPOSE of the law, as defined in the law
(1) to provide a clear and comprehensive national mandate for the elimination of discrimination against individuals with disabilities;

(2) to provide clear, strong, consistent, enforceable standards addressing discrimination against individuals with disabilities;

(3) to ensure that the Federal Government plays a central role in enforcing the standards established in this chapter on behalf of individuals with disabilities; and

(4) to invoke the sweep of congressional authority, including the power to enforce the fourteenth amendment and to regulate commerce, in order to address the major areas of discrimination faced day-to-day by people with disabilities.

.....what Disney is saying (now) is that everyone that comes to their parks has an equal opportunity to be on a stand-by line in order to access the attraction.

Equal opportunity is not how compliance is measured tho. Compliance is about providing reasonable accommodation for the disability in question. The problem is, simply giving everyone equal opportunity to not wait in a confined line is not the universal answer for all disabilities.

Should there now be separate ADA Laws that only apply to certain groups ...because their affliction (in their minds) is worse than one that another person or group of persons has? Advocates for the ADA Laws fought to make everyone equal ....and now because equality is inconvenient ...they are in an uproar?

No, they fought to not be DISCRIMINATED against. Equal is finite point on the spectrum and the law is not defined in purpose or text to require equality. It is defined to require providing accommodation to remove DISCRIMINATION.

On a sliding line you would have...

hate.... discriminate.... equality... appreciate... love

The law did not define everyone as required to be equals. The law was intended to move the minimum UP, so that disabled people can function normally without being second class citizens.

The ADA is an anti-discrimination law - not a 'require equality for all law'. There is a difference..

 

[Figaro928]

HAHA - i'll say it - Hello, my name is Cat -and I'm obese - (My trip to Disney certainly did not help the situation) and Hello, my name is Cat and I have a wicker heel spur (Disney also didn't help that situation) but I put on my big girl panties (big big girl panties with extra room for a few dole whips) and huffed it around the parks usually holding one of my two toddlers... I'll admit it, riding a scooter sure did look tempting... not waiting in line sure did look tempting too...

Laziness is tempting.

 

[minninedaisy74]

I also wanted to add that I work in a field where I deal with many clients who are physically disabled many who are confined to a wheel chair and I have yet to meet one who is what you would considered obese. So when you see Ursula riding up on a scooter in Disney I bet it is safe to assume she go that way on her own and is now dealing with the many health issues because of it.

 

[luv]

N

No one is hating on the disabled but being obese should not be a disability . Oh and there is a big difference between a wheelchair and a rent a scooter at Disney! I find it funny that you are critizing some of us for being judge mental but you in fact are doing the same you know with words like selfish, spoiled , and cruel.

I want to be clear. I did not criticize anyone for being judgemental. The criticism is for those who agree that parents should be irritated when asked to give up a seat (clearly marked as a seat that will need to be given up) for a wheelchair.

Yes, I judge them. I correctly judge them as selfish, spoiled, adult brats. I would hope that they were raised better and that their parents would be saying, "That is not how I raised them." I don't see how a person who was raised better could behave that way, though.

I have a relative in a wheelchair. Although nobody would ever (honestly) describe the couple steps she takes with the the help of one or two others as "easy", she rents wheelchairs and uses the freebie ones in airports and at WDW.

She went to WDW and had a hard time with their ECVs. They're hard to use. They also slow you down a LOT. So much. People who've never done this have no idea how difficult a day at WDW becomes when you tour with a wheelchair.

I had to back down parking lanes to get her out of the wheelchair and into the car. Not all the lots were easy to push a chair through! Just one of the many, many ways using a wheelchair slows you down.

Since using the wheelchair, she's gained some weight. She's pudgy now.

She is also the most genuinely sweet person I've ever known. All of her waking hours, every day of her life, she is kind and sweet. I don't know how it is possible. I really don't. She isn't dumb, either. Just amazingly kind and sweet. Everyone who encounters her falls in love, which is no surprise as she's just that nice. I'm so proud to be related to her. I don't deserve to be, lol.

If some bus driver pressured her to wait through more busses because parents didn't want to move their children, I would SO have campaigned at Disney to fire that person. Because she would have waited. I don't even want to think about how many busses would pull up and ask her not to get on them that she'd have sat there through, not boarding.

I think we've reached a new low. I don't see how much lower we can sink. People shaking their heads at a person in a wheelchair for wanting a seat and not shaking their heads at the people who are annoyed at having to move.

Who would have thought this day would come? Not me.

If we cannot be mildly inconvenienced for the handicapped, we have turned into the most lazy, selfish, spoiled, cruel society on the planet.

 

[NowInc]

I think we've reached a new low. I don't see how much lower we can sink. People shaking their heads at a person in a wheelchair for wanting a seat and not shaking their heads at the people who are annoyed at having to move.

Who would have thought this day would come? Not me.

If we cannot be mildly inconvenienced for the handicapped, we have turned into the most lazy, selfish, spoiled, cruel society on the planet.

But this brings up the problem that started this change in the first place. Those who are GENUINE and in need of the assistance, and those who scam the system (which is a sadly large amount). I can't speak for them, but I can only assume that the "annoyance" factor comes in after spending a long, exhausting day in a hot theme park, watching many people abuse the system and creating growing levels of aggravation to everybody else around them. This obviously doesn't justify it, but its also not fair to generalize anyone as being selfish, spoiled, or cruel to the truly disabled.

 

[minninedaisy74]

I want to be clear. I did not criticize anyone for being judgemental. The criticism is for those who agree that parents should be irritated when asked to give up a seat (clearly marked as a seat that will need to be given up) for a wheelchair.

Yes, I judge them. I correctly judge them as selfish, spoiled, adult brats. I would hope that they were raised better and that their parents would be saying, "That is not how I raised them." I don't see how a person who was raised better could behave that way, though.

I have a relative in a wheelchair. Although nobody would ever (honestly) describe the couple steps she takes with the the help of one or two others as "easy", she rents wheelchairs and uses the freebie ones in airports and at WDW.

She went to WDW and had a hard time with their ECVs. They're hard to use. They also slow you down a LOT. So much. People who've never done this have no idea how difficult a day at WDW becomes when you tour with a wheelchair.

I had to back down parking lanes to get her out of the wheelchair and into the car. Not all the lots were easy to push a chair through! Just one of the many, many ways using a wheelchair slows you down.

Since using the wheelchair, she's gained some weight. She's pudgy now.

She is also the most genuinely sweet person I've ever known. All of her waking hours, every day of her life, she is kind and sweet. I don't know how it is possible. I really don't. She isn't dumb, either. Just amazingly kind and sweet. Everyone who encounters her falls in love, which is no surprise as she's just that nice. I'm so proud to be related to her. I don't deserve to be, lol.

If some bus driver pressured her to wait through more busses because parents didn't want to move their children, I would SO have campaigned at Disney to fire that person. Because she would have waited. I don't even want to think about how many busses would pull up and ask her not to get on them that she'd have sat there through, not boarding.

I think we've reached a new low. I don't see how much lower we can sink. People shaking their heads at a person in a wheelchair for wanting a seat and not shaking their heads at the people who are annoyed at having to move.

Who would have thought this day would come? Not me.

If we cannot be mildly inconvenienced for the handicapped, we have turned into the most lazy, selfish, spoiled, cruel society on the planet.

There was no WHEELCHAIR but an EVC and someone who clearly wasn't disabled. Seriously I could debate this with you all day but you obviously did not fully read the original post and if you did you are trying to twist it into something it is not so that you can criticize all of us for being judgmental. So again no one here is picking on the disabled as much as you would like for that to be the case so that you can continue to stay up there on that soap box and lecture us all on how low and shameful you feel us to be.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Instead of taking advantage of unlimited fastpass, they will have to get the reservation time each time. So, maybe 4-6 extra fastpasses a day instead of more than a dozen. At that point, the cheaters have lost more than half of their incentive, but also more than half the lines they bog will be that much more clear.

Estimates are that 50% of fastpass on a given day are GAC. If those are reduced by 75%, fastpass lins could be cut by 1/3. This is a huge win on Sorin, Toy Story, Test Track and many others where the stand by times ary often 2-3x longer than posted times.

Soarin & TSMM are the only places I've seen a GAC scrutinized.

 

[luv]

I get that it is supposed to be rude to not respond once you're in the discussion, but I've said what I had to say. I have nothing to add.

I see the thing pop up saying I've been quoted, but am done reading the justifications of selfish, spoiled, adult brats who were raised to believe that their every desire should be accommodated and that those who are in wheelchairs should just sit and wait all day for a bus on which nobody has sat in the handicapped section, lol. God forbid that (after they run their children so hard that the kids are falling asleep in public) their little pumpkins should have to be moved.

I have little sympathy for these adults. I will save my pity for the people who deserve it.

 

[Nemo14]

There was no WHEELCHAIR but an EVC and someone who clearly wasn't disabled. Seriously I could debate this with you all day but you obviously did not fully read the original post and if you did you are trying to twist it into something it is not so that you can criticize all of us for being judgmental. So again no one here is picking on the disabled as much as you would like for that to be the case so that you can continue to stay up there on that soap box and lecture us all on how low and shameful you feel us to be.

I'm just wondering how, after all the discussions here about disabilities, Anyone can say that a person is clearly not disabled.

 

[IWantMyMagicBand]

It could also be argued that, if the person driving the ECV was not disabled as they made out, could have an issue with kids taking the best seats on the bus and "picks" on sleeping kids. Their morals are skewed anyway, what's waking up a couple of babes going to do to their conscience?

Most of us know someone who is disadvantaged in some way. I'm sure we can all relate. However, there seems to be an issue with a few taking things way too personally, and having to defend every comment made.

Can we leave the bickering now, please? Everyone.

 

[Lord_Vader]

I'm sorry - but it's the same society that lugs around Grandma with her bad knees so Jr. doesn't have to wait 45 minutes to ride or Peter Pan...

There is also the distinct possibility that Grandma is footing the bill and wanted to be there to enjoy the vacation with her grandchildren. I only wish my children had grandparents so willing!

 

[IWantMyMagicBand]

There is also the distinct possibility that Grandma is footing the bill and wanted to be there to enjoy the vacation with her grandchildren. I only wish my children had grandparents so willing!

But even if she was, what gives the family the right to go front of line while she waits outside, just so they don't spend less time together. (or somethinglike that, kids are crawling all over me lol)

 

[NowInc]

I get that it is supposed to be rude to not respond once you're in the discussion, but I've said what I had to say. I have nothing to add.

I see the thing pop up saying I've been quoted, but am done reading the justifications of selfish, spoiled, adult brats who were raised to believe that their every desire should be accommodated and that those who are in wheelchairs should just sit and wait all day for a bus on which nobody has sat in the handicapped section, lol. God forbid that (after they run their children so hard that the kids are falling asleep in public) their little pumpkins should have to be moved.

I have little sympathy for these adults. I will save my pity for the people who deserve it.

No offence, but your posts come off as very rude. SOME of us have replied to you trying to help shed light on both sides of a topic, but you choose to ignore that and then continue to accuse everyone else of being selfish, spoiled, and adult brats?

 

[Timekeeper]

 

[IWantMyMagicBand]

Another thing wrong with Disney. If it's on public display at least grammar check it!