GAC to Become DAS

[JLipnick]

But Disney doesn't have to offer a reasonable replacement or any replacement for that matter. You know I have no problem with offering FOTL access to those who need it but when you feel like your kid should ride several times in a row with out a wait then I think you are taking advantage of the situation and being inconsiderate to the other guest. There is no way you can convience me that just because your child has autisim, ADHD , or whatever else they should be entitled to ride the same ride numerous times with out having to wait and if you think they are then I question your parenting skills! Oh and by "you" I mean people in general not you by any means.

PLEASE STOP SAYING FOTL PASS!!!!! I don't see anywhere in this thread that says we, parents of disabled kids, expect front of the line access. several people have said this over the past few pages and I am sick of it. i have posted many times in this very thread about my 5 year old son who walks with a walker but is not wheelchair bound and who has zero cognitive delay. we don't expect FOTL access and never have. We used the GAC several times and were hoping the use the DAS on our next three scheduled trips (we live in Baltimore, so a trip to WDW is not a 15 minute ride). We fully agreed something had to change and the DAS seems to be an acceptable alternative, except that everyone is saying that it is ONLY for kids or people with cognative disabilities. I don't expect to go to the front of the line over and over, but I do expect WDW to accomodate my son who standing in the lines in his walker is not only extremely tiring for him, but it is a hazard to him and others around him. For him to not qualify for a DAS is my biggest complaint. But please STOP saying that many on this board are complaining that there is no more FOTL access.

 

[CaptainessKylie]

Here is where I have a problem. Why is it embarrassing to need a wheelchair. What able bodied member of our society decided this. If a person has a problem that requires one, why is that an embarrassment to them. It is a fact of their life. Are there people out there telling them that being in a wheelchair makes them less of a person or are they letting them know how impressed we are that they are doing what is necessary to live their life the best way they can.

.

Actually my brother decided it was embarrassing to be in a wheelchair. He doesn't need one and has fought all his life to not be in one. Numerous therapies and surgeries. All because he decided to use one at WDW and was either treated like he didn't exist or treated like he was stupid. I have a friend with cancer who has to use a chair and she despises it. It is her enemy and she has no choice. She came to visit WDW recently and we were so shocked at how under accommodating the parks are to those in a chair; she wasn't even able to get in line at guest relations at MK. So yes a wheelchair can be embarrassing to some and it isn't an option so Disney shouldn't see it as one. When my friend finally got to the desk at MK the CM would only talk and look at me. I explained it was not me needing the assistance and she should direct her questions to Helen. She went away to ask a question and came back again talking to me; I had to ask her again and also request to go to the wheelchair height desk which she huffed and puffed about.

It's not an embarrassment to be in a wheelchair at all but it can be embarrassing if someone doesnt need or want it and it's given as their only option.

Also please remember that CP has a huge spectrum, much like autism. It affects some both physically and mentally, and some just one or the other. So what worked for your friend won't work for my brother even though they both had the same disability

 

[unkadug]

Chalk up the increase to the 'what's in it for us' syndrome. It's mostly anecdotal, but, there are plenty of articles that nail the underlying issue:

"
The World Today -
Reporter: Petria Wallace
ELEANOR HALL: Now to what could be a frightening statistic for parents. There's been a 200 per cent jump in the diagnosis of autism in Australia over the past decade. Queensland is the state with the sharpest increase, and a new study out today may hold the key to understanding why.

A paediatrician from the Royal Children's Hospital in Brisbane surveyed the work practices of the state's paediatricians and paediatric psychiatrists.

A study released today shows that 58 per cent of the doctors admit they've been exaggerating the diagnosis of autism in children, to help families get access to assistance at home and in schools."

Not to mention the people who blame it on their poor parenting skills. A lack of discipline is not a diagnosis of autism.

 

[JLipnick]

Chalk up the increase to the 'what's in it for us' syndrome. It's mostly anecdotal, but, there are plenty of articles that nail the underlying issue:

"
The World Today -
Reporter: Petria Wallace
ELEANOR HALL: Now to what could be a frightening statistic for parents. There's been a 200 per cent jump in the diagnosis of autism in Australia over the past decade. Queensland is the state with the sharpest increase, and a new study out today may hold the key to understanding why.

A paediatrician from the Royal Children's Hospital in Brisbane surveyed the work practices of the state's paediatricians and paediatric psychiatrists.

A study released today shows that 58 per cent of the doctors admit they've been exaggerating the diagnosis of autism in children, to help families get access to assistance at home and in schools."

There is also a huge spike in food allergies, but that can't be chalked up to just terminology. My daughter's severe peanut allergy isn't just a terminology issue. either you have a food allergy that you can die from or you don't.

 

[CaptainessKylie]

How about Autism and other mental conditions are approved across the board and other conditions are approved at the discretion of a manager? So if the person has a wheelchair, then the manager says no, but if the person can't use a wheelchair or has another issue, then the manager can approve that.

That would possibly work. Only problem is they would need to fire a lot of jobs worth cast members in Guest Relations. We asked for a manager 12 times and were refused every time.

 

[englanddg]

PLEASE STOP SAYING FOTL PASS!!!!! I don't see anywhere in this thread that says we, parents of disabled kids, expect front of the line access. several people have said this over the past few pages and I am sick of it. i have posted many times in this very thread about my 5 year old son who walks with a walker but is not wheelchair bound and who has zero cognitive delay. we don't expect FOTL access and never have. We used the GAC several times and were hoping the use the DAS on our next three scheduled trips (we live in Baltimore, so a trip to WDW is not a 15 minute ride). We fully agreed something had to change and the DAS seems to be an acceptable alternative, except that everyone is saying that it is ONLY for kids or people with cognative disabilities. I don't expect to go to the front of the line over and over, but I do expect WDW to accomodate my son who standing in the lines in his walker is not only extremely tiring for him, but it is a hazard to him and others around him. For him to not qualify for a DAS is my biggest complaint. But please STOP saying that many on this board are complaining that there is no more FOTL access.

I can feel your frustration.

I would agree...except that FOTL access restrictions was one of the major gripes brought up. Not just here, but elsewhere.

I can post links to examples (AutismHippie being the most offensive I can think of, if her videos are even still public)...but, the fact is...there were plenty of people who used the system, there were also plenty of people who abused the system.

 

[CaptainessKylie]

Maybe you wouldn't. But due to others doing it, this new system is in place.

I know I'm going to be seen as a horse's a$$, but here goes. I have read through all 127 pages of this thread over several weeks, and one thing stands out-everyone seems to feel their disability or their child's disability (be it physical, mental, or emotional), entitles them to no-wait, front of the line access. Folks are forgetting one VERY important fact in all of this-WDW is a business in the end, and the vast majority of their money is made from those very crowds that are standing in line, sans disability. It sucks, but there it is.

The point of DAS/GAC was an attempt to placate and accommodate people with disabilities while still making sure the waiting masses were handled in a reasonable time (the majority that pays the bills). That was not happening. Ride loopers, line jumpers, Tiny Tims (I'm at the front of the line and suddenly cured of needing to sit in a wheel chair), etc brought this system down on everyone. This can be discussed ad nauseum (as it has for 127 pages of people ranting 'my disability trumps your disability' or 'my IBS makes it impossible to wait in a line'-never mind if you can't wait in a line, where do you drop one while you sit on IASW for 8 minutes?) and it won't matter. WDW has made a decision-a business decision. Your choices are as follows-
-Go to Disney and comply (the first rational thing),
-Go to Disney and make a scene a humiliate a cast member that is only tasked by some corporate suit to enforce a rule (the pathetic human response that has become en vogue on these boards and at Disney)
-Don't go (but keep in mind Universal's policy is almost the EXACT same thing). This is the second rational thing.

But keep in mind one thing. As much bad press as is possible has been brought to bear on Disney for this; be it Autism mom on Youtube, to the Orlando printed media, and you know what? No one cares. Because the vast majority of people are standing in 95 degree heat for 40 minutes to ride Dumbo and if this moves the line forward faster, they aren't going to complain or help you. That's the cold, hard reality at the end of the day.

Good luck-but remember-as stated above 'Disney is not there as a therapy session for your Honey Boo-Boo'. It's there for the enjoyment of all, and WDI has made a decision who 'all' is. It's time to move forward and accept it.

An aside-When my family and I were there in September, the lines were short and quick for almost everything in the World. I followed a family one morning out of the Wilderness Lodge. They had a child in a wheelchair. Of course, we all waited at the bus stop until they had boarded. Then we boarded. We arrived at the Magic Kingdom. We hopped off of the bus and proceeded to move towards the entrance. It was while we were waiting to get in something struck me. The family with the wheelchair-required child had magically transformed. It was a miracle!!! Except now it was their poor father that had the disability. I became concerned what this family had may be contagious. Later, as we were waiting to get on at the POTC, the disease had afflicted yet another family member-this time the mother.

My heart of course broke for this family. To have multiple members afflicted in one day by the same obviously crippling disease has to be trying, and to see the (very) brave faces the family wore was so uplifting (such brave faces I wouldn't have known the family was afflicted at all with this musical chairs disability). Then I heard the son (originally wheel chair bound at the bus stop while I was sweating vital fluids onto the concrete waiting to board-but still sympathetic) tell his father 'I'm want to ride the wheel chair when we go back to the bus'. I couldn't believe it! They had been gaming the system the whole time. I wonder why this system was instituted in the first place?

Hopefully, readers will see the dripping sarcasm of the story above. But my point is this-I dropped $6500 for the first vacation my family and I have taken since I was without a job 3 years ago. I haven't had a weekend, holiday, or sick day since for a long time. To have to observe this when that much money is saved and the planning that was involved, is frankly disgusting. Now I know a lot of people will call me heartless, say I'm cruel, or that I don't know what it's like. You're missing the point-Disney made a decision based on people like me complaining about the BS they were witnessing while not gaming the system themselves. And they had to do something. And they aren't going back. That's life. But the sympathetic side of me knows you already know that because of the daily challenge you face with you or a loved one's disability. And for that I'm sorry, but this is the way it is going to be.

Just so you know Universal has a different system to the DAS. Similar but different in many ways. I'm not prepared to share it on these boards as that's how the GAC got out of control but that is why our annual passes were purchased at UO and not WDW.

 

[englanddg]

Just so you know Universal has a different system to the DAS. Similar but different in many ways. I'm not prepared to share it on these boards as that's how the GAC got out of control but that is why our annual passes were purchased at UO and not WDW.

The Universal system has been discussed here over and over. This is one of those recurring topics that goes on for years where people just cycle through the same debates, same reasons, same excuses, same criticisms, same statements, same arguments...etc...

over...and over...and over again.

The only thing that changes is the thread title.

 

[CaptainessKylie]

The Universal system has been discussed here over and over. This is one of those recurring topics that goes on for years where people just cycle through the same debates, same reasons, same excuses, same criticisms, same statements, same arguments...etc...

over...and over...and over again.

The only thing that changes is the thread title.

It just frustrates me that someone said in their post (the one I quoted) that universal has the exact same system. They have a similar one and they also have a very very different one

 

[Goofyernmost]

Actually my brother decided it was embarrassing to be in a wheelchair. He doesn't need one and has fought all his life to not be in one. Numerous therapies and surgeries. All because he decided to use one at WDW and was either treated like he didn't exist or treated like he was stupid. I have a friend with cancer who has to use a chair and she despises it. It is her enemy and she has no choice. She came to visit WDW recently and we were so shocked at how under accommodating the parks are to those in a chair; she wasn't even able to get in line at guest relations at MK. So yes a wheelchair can be embarrassing to some and it isn't an option so Disney shouldn't see it as one. When my friend finally got to the desk at MK the CM would only talk and look at me. I explained it was not me needing the assistance and she should direct her questions to Helen. She went away to ask a question and came back again talking to me; I had to ask her again and also request to go to the wheelchair height desk which she huffed and puffed about.

It's not an embarrassment to be in a wheelchair at all but it can be embarrassing if someone doesnt need or want it and it's given as their only option.

Also please remember that CP has a huge spectrum, much like autism. It affects some both physically and mentally, and some just one or the other. So what worked for your friend won't work for my brother even though they both had the same disability

I'm sure that there are some that feel that they are embarrassed by having to use a wheelchair, but, whatever problem they might have makes them need one when at WDW. You can't expect Disney to have a book of exceptions. Basically, the problem is physical and that physical problem is solved by use of a wheelchair to not have to stand for long periods of time in a line. I don't mean to sound insensitive, because I have experienced the same problem and decided not to go rather then to do something that I thought embarrassing. I will never make that mistake again. What you are talking about is commendable but it is also a vanity issue. I must move to the front because I don't want to be seen in a wheelchair, is not an acceptable reason. There cannot be a separate set of rules that are labeled...For those with physical problems complicated by vanity. Vanity is not important in a theme park setting...practicality is.

 

[CaptainessKylie]

I'm sure that there are some that feel that they are embarrassed by having to use a wheelchair, but, whatever problem they might have makes them need one when at WDW. You can't expect Disney to have a book of exceptions. Basically, the problem is physical and that physical problem is solved by use of a wheelchair to not have to stand for long periods of time in a line. I don't mean to sound insensitive, because I have experienced the same problem and decided not to go rather then to do something that I thought embarrassing. I will never make that mistake again. What you are talking about is commendable but it is also a vanity issue. I must move to the front because I don't want to be seen in a wheelchair, is not an acceptable reason. There cannot be a separate set of rules that are labeled...For those with physical problems complicated by vanity. Vanity is not important in a theme park setting...practicality is.

Now if someone with CP with just the physical difficulties had that argument I would agree with you.

BUT some idiot at Disney has concocted that "CP is just a physical issue" (direct quote Studios GR CM Taylor) which it isn't. It might be for some. But for many it isn't. Like my brother. So whilst the wheelchair would help the physical difficulties it does nothing to help the mental difficulties that are caused by his CP.

So to simply tell someone they should get a wheelchair when they have explained all sides of their challenges just because they have Cp instead of autism is very wrong.

 

[CaptainessKylie]

I'm sure that there are some that feel that they are embarrassed by having to use a wheelchair, but, whatever problem they might have makes them need one when at WDW. You can't expect Disney to have a book of exceptions. Basically, the problem is physical and that physical problem is solved by use of a wheelchair to not have to stand for long periods of time in a line. I don't mean to sound insensitive, because I have experienced the same problem and decided not to go rather then to do something that I thought embarrassing. I will never make that mistake again. What you are talking about is commendable but it is also a vanity issue. I must move to the front because I don't want to be seen in a wheelchair, is not an acceptable reason. There cannot be a separate set of rules that are labeled...For those with physical problems complicated by vanity. Vanity is not important in a theme park setting...practicality is.

And not once did we say or imply we needed to be at the front. But given the opportunity to try the new system. Keep somewhere cool, preferably with food for him, in a place not to crowded with people staring, and somewhere that should a blow up occur that other people aren't in super close quarters to hear. That is the beauty of the DAS but not for those with CP.

 

[unkadug]

Now if someone with CP with just the physical difficulties had that argument I would agree with you.

BUT some idiot at Disney has concocted that "CP is just a physical issue" (direct quote Studios GR CM Taylor) which it isn't. It might be for some. But for many it isn't. Like my brother. So whilst the wheelchair would help the physical difficulties it does nothing to help the mental difficulties that are caused by his CP.

So to simply tell someone they should get a wheelchair when they have explained all sides of their challenges just because they have Cp instead of autism is very wrong.

Just tell the CM that your brother is Autistic as well as having CP.

Problem solved.

 

[CaptainessKylie]

Just tell the CM that your brother is Autistic as well as having CP.

Problem solved.

But it's not problem solved and that's a bad attitude to have. Why is that any different to someone without a disability pretending to have autism?

If someone was saying they had CP I would be very offended. Disney should be accepting that there are many disabilities they should be accommodating. (Note should, not: have to)

 

[unkadug]

But it's not problem solved and that's a bad attitude to have. Why is that any different to someone without a disability pretending to have autism?

If someone was saying they had CP I would be very offended. Disney should be accepting that there are many disabilities they should be accommodating. (Note should not have to)

That's exactly what will start happening unless they do SOMETHING to fix the DAS program.

If Autism is the only supported disability, then you can expect Autism to suddenly spike higher than it has in the past 30 years. I foresee 1 in 5 people being autistic at the MK.

 

[englanddg]

But it's not problem solved and that's a bad attitude to have. Why is that any different to someone without a disability pretending to have autism?

If someone was saying they had CP I would be very offended. Disney should be accepting that there are many disabilities they should be accommodating. (Note should not have to)

Ok, this is gonna sound callous, even offensive, but...hear me out...(because I certainly don't mean to be either). Be aware, it's certainly not directed at you, your comment just sparked it.

Why not just say "my friend / family member here is retarded. You don't need to know or understand the details of his disability, but seriously, he's retarded. So, just give us the retarded accommodations you have, and we'll be on our way."

My point is, there are too many disabilities to reasonably expect a company, much less a front line CM, to keep up with. Heck, even Primary Care Physicians can't...that's why there are those who specialize.

At some point in our culture we decided that everyone must have their own personal excuse for whatever. Really, I don't care. If your brother is "special" and has "special needs", I don't need (nor care to hear) a massive sob story and breakdown of how difficult your life is or theirs. Just tell me what you need.

That being said, there comes a point where your requests are unreasonable. If you think you should have a closer parking space...sure. If you think that you should be able to barge through life without interactions (a la FOTL)? Um...nope.

The simple truth is, the vast majority of people don't care about specific disabilities because they don't impact their lives directly. They also don't harbor grudges against specific disabilities. If they see a blind person, they are most likely going to try and be as helpful as possible. If they run into a deaf person, they are most likely going to pick up on that and write (if they don't know sign language).

I'm sorry, accommodation doesn't mean "You are so ignorant of my specific concerns and needs so therefore what you tried to do to accommodate me is not acceptable!"...accommodation is a two way street.

This is borderline the people who have kids with peanut allergies who demand that all foods be peanut free. It's societal lunacy!

 

[CaptainessKylie]

Ok, this is gonna sound callous, even offensive, but...hear me out...(because I certainly don't mean to be either). Be aware, it's certainly not directed at you, your comment just sparked it.

Why not just say "my friend / family member here is retarded. You don't need to know or understand the details of his disability, but seriously, he's retarded. So, just give us the retarded accommodations you have, and we'll be on our way."

My point is, there are too many disabilities to reasonably expect a company, much less a front line CM, to keep up with. Heck, even Primary Care Physicians can't...that's why there are those who specialize.

At some point in our culture we decided that everyone must have their own personal excuse for whatever. Really, I don't care. If your brother is "special" and has "special needs", I don't need (nor care to hear) a massive sob story and breakdown of how difficult your life is or theirs. Just tell me what you need.

That being said, there comes a point where your requests are unreasonable. If you think you should have a closer parking space...sure. If you think that you should be able to barge through life without interactions (a la FOTL)? Um...nope.

The simple truth is, the vast majority of people don't care about specific disabilities because they don't impact their lives directly. They also don't harbor grudges against specific disabilities. If they see a blind person, they are most likely going to try and be as helpful as possible. If they run into a deaf person, they are most likely going to pick up on that and write (if they don't know sign language).

I'm sorry, accommodation doesn't mean "You are so ignorant of my specific concerns and needs so therefore what you tried to do to accommodate me is not acceptable!"...accommodation is a two way street.

This is borderline the people who have kids with peanut allergies who demand that all foods be peanut free. It's societal lunacy!

I think you are misunderstanding our issue. Whilst I accept there are so many disabilities it is hard to keep up and accommodate all. But to have CP listed as just a physical issue (again direct quote - Thanks Taylor....) is wrong as it's not. It's like saying my profile picture is a pirate horse....pirate correct horse not so much. For them to get something so wrong is insensitive and very wrong. I have a feeling you don't have a child or family member with a disability because you would see the daily struggles and realize that once those challenges are overcome even in the tiniest bit it really is a miracle that you don't want blurred by someone saying hey just pretend that you have something else wrong with you. You've been treated differently all your life because of your disability and now you are being told that your disability isn't good enough.

 

[CaptainessKylie]

That's exactly what will start happening unless they do SOMETHING to fix the DAS program.

If Autism is the only supported disability, then you can expect Autism to suddenly spike higher than it has in the past 30 years. I foresee 1 in 5 people being autistic at the MK.

The crazy part is; I think if Disney were allowed to ask for proof then the people with genuine difficulties would have no problem providing it and the people that have none; can't provide...it's so simple and I feel that which ever governing body made that decision needs to move forward with that.

 

[englanddg]

I think you are misunderstanding our issue. Whilst I accept there are so many disabilities it is hard to keep up and accommodate all. But to have CP listed as just a physical issue (again direct quote - Thanks Taylor....) is wrong as it's not. It's like saying my profile picture is a pirate horse....pirate correct horse not so much. For them to get something so wrong is insensitive and very wrong. I have a feeling you don't have a child or family member with a disability because you would see the daily struggles and realize that once those challenges are overcome even in the tiniest bit it really is a miracle that you don't want blurred by someone saying hey just pretend that you have something else wrong with you. You've been treated differently all your life because of your disability and now you are being told that your disability isn't good enough.

See the bolded text.

What exactly do you mean by that?

 

[CaptainessKylie]

See the bolded text.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Take my brother for example; he has been treated terribly throughout his life because he has cerebral palsy. Bullied to the point of depression and suicidal thoughts, had to sit out and watch other people do things he couldn't. Desperate to lead a normal life and can't because of his disability. Some days he accepts it many others he doesn't.
He gets to WDW and we as well as him explain his difficulties and issues he will encounter throughout the day and he is told no but if you tell me you have autism I can give you this assistance.
He is being told that his disability isn't good enough. That he would be better off having autism. This thing that he battles every day to be good is suddenly evil again and it's not good enough for him to enjoy a day at Disney World.

Once again, having felt he isn't good enough all his life, he is made to feel not good enough again when trying to get assistance for his disability. That's very very wrong.