GiveMeTheMusic
Well-Known Member
The show will have Fastpass, as Aladdin before it closed. It will likely be Fastpass-only, a la World of Color.
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The show will have Fastpass, as Aladdin before it closed. It will likely be Fastpass-only, a la World of Color.
Supposedly there is going to be a black Elsa.
http://discuss.micechat.com/forum/d...irginia-there-is-a-black-elsa?_=1461533267153
http://discuss.micechat.com/forum/d...irginia-there-is-a-black-elsa?_=1461533267153
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Seriously? I'm an old guy of Scandinavian descent. Someone help me understand this.
GiveMeTheMusic
Well-Known Member
Like Aladdin was (at first anyway), Frozen is utilizing colorblind casting, meaning they are casting roles regardless of ethnicity. Fairy tales like these work best with colorblind casting - a very successful example would be ABC's 1997 broadcast of Cinderella.
ForeverAnna
Well-Known Member
Speaking of color blind casting and Cinderella, when I saw it on Broadway Cinderalla and the Stepmother where both African American, one step sister was white and one Asian. I don't think anyone was bothered.
Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
They often had Asian Aladdin's playing at the Hyperion, I noticed. So it's nothing new.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
But the girl playing Elsa in the Hyperion will still have a blond wig and be made up to evoke the Scandinavian ancestry that the Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale is based on, correct?
Or is this going to be a thing where Elsa isn't wearing any of the Elsa clothing, and doesn't wear a blonde wig, etc. and will all be a very different telling of the traditional story? Like how Steps In Time used songs from various films, but the characters performing the songs looked and acted nothing like the movie characters they were based on?
I'm trying to wrap my head around this and not be offended that there wasn't a Scandinavian girl good enough for this key Scandinavian role.
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Travel Junkie
Well-Known Member
There are countless movies that use actors that are not of the ancestry of the source material. Scarlett Johansen is the latest staring in the Ghost in the Shell even though the character is Japanese.
FerretAfros
Well-Known Member
I saw Beauty and the Beast when Toni Braxton was playing Belle on Broadway, and didn't mind it one bit. She did a great job with the role. The stage show was obviously different from the film and theme park portrayals, and other characters had different looks for the production, so it didn't seem strange that Belle looked different too. It was also physically removed enough from the other versions that it was okay to be a little different. I think Maurice was even white in that production, and I never gave it a second thought.
But Disney has spent the last 2+ years waxing poetic about how Frozen is based on Scandinavian culture (specifically Norwegian), and is supposedly very respectful of that influence. They're selling guided tours to Norway based on the film and fundamentally altering the Norway pavilion under the premise that this film is somehow an authentic representation of that culture. Everything Disney has said about the film recently has been "authentically Disney, distinctly Norwegian" (to paraphrase from Shanghai Disneyland).
I don't mind Disney taking either approach. There's a lot of merit to either. But they can't have it both ways. If they want to claim that they're reflecting a certain culture and being respectful of it, then they need to do that. If they want to be avant garde and push the limits of what defines these characters, then they're free to do that too. I just struggle to see how they can get away with doing both for the exact same film.
Personally, I think this film is a clear example of cultural appropriation. If Disney had taken a minority-in-the-US culture (say, elements from China or Mexico) and set it in a fictional-yet-suspiciously-similar realm like Arendelle, I suspect there would be a lot of people who were vocally upset about it. If Disney made Aladdin (the film) today, everybody would be up in arms over it. But somehow it's okay when we do it to a European culture. I don't get it.
EDIT: I'll also add that I always enjoyed seeing the lady in the wheelchair in the ensemble of Aladdin at DCA. There's a lot of flexibility to accommodate the background characters like that. But for the main characters, I think they should stick a little closer to their original interpretations, whether it's their race, age, height, gender, etc.
But Disney has spent the last 2+ years waxing poetic about how Frozen is based on Scandinavian culture (specifically Norwegian), and is supposedly very respectful of that influence. They're selling guided tours to Norway based on the film and fundamentally altering the Norway pavilion under the premise that this film is somehow an authentic representation of that culture. Everything Disney has said about the film recently has been "authentically Disney, distinctly Norwegian" (to paraphrase from Shanghai Disneyland).
I don't mind Disney taking either approach. There's a lot of merit to either. But they can't have it both ways. If they want to claim that they're reflecting a certain culture and being respectful of it, then they need to do that. If they want to be avant garde and push the limits of what defines these characters, then they're free to do that too. I just struggle to see how they can get away with doing both for the exact same film.
Personally, I think this film is a clear example of cultural appropriation. If Disney had taken a minority-in-the-US culture (say, elements from China or Mexico) and set it in a fictional-yet-suspiciously-similar realm like Arendelle, I suspect there would be a lot of people who were vocally upset about it. If Disney made Aladdin (the film) today, everybody would be up in arms over it. But somehow it's okay when we do it to a European culture. I don't get it.
EDIT: I'll also add that I always enjoyed seeing the lady in the wheelchair in the ensemble of Aladdin at DCA. There's a lot of flexibility to accommodate the background characters like that. But for the main characters, I think they should stick a little closer to their original interpretations, whether it's their race, age, height, gender, etc.
GiveMeTheMusic
Well-Known Member
But the girl playing Elsa in the Hyperion will still have a blond wig and be made up to evoke the Scandinavian ancestry that the Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale is based on, correct?
Or is this going to be a thing where Elsa isn't wearing any of the Elsa clothing, and doesn't wear a blonde wig, etc. and will all be a very different telling of the traditional story? Like how Steps In Time used songs from various films, but the characters performing the songs looked and acted nothing like the movie characters they were based on?
I'm trying to wrap my head around this and not be offended that there wasn't a Scandinavian girl good enough for this key Scandinavian role.
I assume her wig would be blonde, but I don't know. The costumes and wigs will definitely match the look of the film - but like most modern musicals, colorblind casting is a technique they are employing since the show is set in a fictional kingdom and ethnicity is not central to the characters.
There will be at least 9 actresses rotating through the role of Elsa to keep the show going 7 days a week. I know for a fact that they are not ALL black. One may be, but I haven't had this confirmed.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Thank you, you expressed my feelings exactly, and much more graciously than I could have.
This feels like it's too soon to start re-interpreting who Elsa is and what she looks like. I remember really enjoying the 1997 TV remake of Cinderella, but that was also a story that had been in the American pop culture mind for almost 50 years by then, and the '97 remake was a fresh take on that well-worn story.
Frozen is only two and a half years old. And it's based on a Scandinavian folk tale, and distinctly set in Norway. (Yeah, yeah, the mythical kingdom of "Arendelle", but we all know where it's set) And so Scandinavians only get two years to revel in their pop culture fame before Disney says "Oh, by the way, it's not really a Scandinavian thing and Elsa is black" ??? I'm just confused by that.
It's Disney's IP so they can do what they want with it, but this just seems like a very odd casting decision. And a very weird way to treat the ancient Scandinavian culture that they once pretended they were "honoring". Unless this Hyperion stage version is a radical departure from the story and characters that were in the movie and that are on every piece of merchandise Disney has sold for the last three years.
Perhaps the Adventures By Disney trips to Norway to see the inspiration and culture behind Frozen will now visit Indonesia instead and just brand it as the "Frozen Tour of Indonesia"? And then in 2017, Adventures By Disney can lead Moana themed trips to Iceland? I'm sure the Tahitians won't mind that one bit.
https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/europe/norway-vacation/
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TP2000
Well-Known Member
Try telling that to a Norwegian. But make sure he's put down his Lutefisk first.
I appreciate your insight into this news. I'm still baffled by this decision, but then what do I know about Broadway casting?
yookeroo
Well-Known Member
I don't see why they can't.
D
Deleted member 107043
Original Poster
I hope I'm not being insensitive, but I'm trying to wrap my head around why this would be an issue and I can't think of one. For a Broadway style theatrical retelling of the story it really shouldn't matter what race the performers are as long as they can deliver a convincing performance.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
You aren't insensitive at all, there's several of us trying to wrap our heads around this.
I don't think I would care if this was actually on Broadway, or a traveling show performing at the Segerstrom Center or Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, etc. But when it's inside a Disney theme park, literally steps away from where a blonde hair/blue eyed Fullerton Junior College coed is all dressed up as Elsa for meet n' greets, I find it much harder to switch gears completely and say "Elsa can be black or any other ethnicity, it's all just for pretend, and who cares about the Norwegians anyway".
If I can set aside how offended I am as a Scandinavian-American that my native culture is already disposable and not worthy of much respect to Disneyland's entertainment department, I guess the issue is that this is a show in a theme park.
Yes, the Hyperion is a facility that is unprecedented in its scale and sophistication for theme parks. Yes, the show will probably last 45 or 50 minutes instead of the usual 28 minutes for theme park shows. But it's still a show playing five times a day in a theme park. It's not actually a Broadway show. So why does Frozen get to use colorblind casting while every other show and every other character appearance in the parks sticks closely to the ethnicity of each character?
That said.... I've been a huge Motown fan for decades. I went to Detroit once just to visit the Motown Museum and got woozy standing in that garage where all those greats made all those hits. I saw the musical Dreamgirls in Vancouver a few years ago, and if Effie had appeared on stage being played by a Taylor Swift look-alike I would have been furious!
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D
Deleted member 107043
Original Poster
I think this is a valid point, but maybe that IS the point? Maybe Disney is trying to take this experience to the next level and transcend what people normally expect for theme park entertainment and casting. The story as told by the Disney Studio is primarily told from a 21st century point of view, full of pop songs, and voiced by actors who sound like a bunch of California co-eds, and could take place anywhere really, so the relationship of the film to anything authentically Scandinavian is already kind of shaky.
Actually, is it even confirmed that this is happening?
GiveMeTheMusic
Well-Known Member
The division of WDI that produces main stage shows wants to be as close to Broadway as possible (not an aspiration park shows had in the 90s!) - hiring Broadway directors, designers and performers. The show will be an hour long.
Since Arendelle doesn't actually exist and the movie isn't actually set in Norway (despite what Epcot would have us believe), the ethnicity of the characters isn't germane to the story. Effie, however, is a black singer in the 60s. Dreamgirls isn't a candidate for colorblind casting as story points revolve around race.
Frozen has zero story points that revolve around race, so colorblind casting is an option, like it was with Aladdin. Aladdin opened with Asian Aladdins and Jasmines, black Jafars and Sultans.
Having seen dozens of Broadway shows over the years, colorblind casting isn't worth batting an eye over, but I can definitely see where theme park audiences would be confused or surprised.
I don't think it will be a big deal, but I also still haven't been able to confirm that one of the Elsa performers is black.
Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
I can't believe it'll be an hour long. That's awesome! I'll have to make sure we all use the restroom before seeing it.