Frozen complainers are finally making headlines.

[lazyboy97o]

I'm sure there were many reasons why the Disney team chose to do what they're doing. Again, crazy lines are expected with new or popular attractions -- that's the theme park way. No, it's not fun to wait in a long line for a short ride and yes it may be super crowded but again, you're in a theme park and we willingly battle those things all the time. Plus we don't know all the details of the ride yet -- they'll be working on it for the next 2 years.

The reasons were that it is cheaper. That is how lacking in respect for guests management has become. The lines were already too long. Also, rides get designed before they are built, not during. They don't have two years to come up with something amazing, they had about six months.

 

[Magenta Panther]

I still think that a Frozen ride should be a completely new dark ride, and at MK. Either replacing something around the storybook circus (not that important) or using the former 20,000 Leagues lagoon as the frozen lake around their town (with ships frozen in the port)

That would be a very awesome visual!

 

[Bairstow]

The Mine Train replaced Snow White, and the previous show building is now being squandered on a meet and greet (this is not only a shameful and unfortunate waste of space where a ride could go, but meet and greets are horribly inefficient and low capacity

It's not always about capacity and per-day-per-guest ride counts.
Personal interaction with the characters, certain princesses especially are of extraordinary appeal and importance to certain demographics.
The princess building, with its multiple encounter rooms and air-conditioned queues, is a recognition of how much these sorts of experiences mean to certain guests.

If the place was deserted, I might be inclined to agree with you, but as it stands Fairytale Hall is barely enough to keep pace with demand as it is.

 

[Cesar R M]

I certainly don't mean that, because it's not even a complete thought.

good point.

"retirement bonus, housing development in the bahamas and new super yatch"

 

[Mike S]

It's not always about capacity and per-day-per-guest ride counts.
Personal interaction with the characters, certain princesses especially are of extraordinary appeal and importance to certain demographics.
The princess building, with its multiple encounter rooms and air-conditioned queues, is a recognition of how much these sorts of experiences mean to certain guests.

If the place was deserted, I might be inclined to agree with you, but as it stands Fairytale Hall is barely enough to keep pace with demand as it is.

Maybe they should've built a bigger Princess M&G space instead of the single Belle M&G. Then they could've either kept Snow White or replace it with a different ride. How popular is the M&G in Storybook Circus? The princesses could've gone over there too if there was a different theme in that area.

 

[wdisney9000]

It personally doesn't bother me where they put it though.

Wasnt a big part of what made Disneyland/World amazing was the proper theming and putting things where they belong in an appropriate "land"? Its exactly what creates the fantasy effect. If it "doesnt bother you where they put it", I suggest visiting your local state fair or parking lot carnival because thats what you get when the designers dont care where things go.

At what point would disregard for theming start to affect you or your vacation because the man who created the wonderful parks we love so dearly didnt want so much as a "cowboy sauntering through Tomorrowland" to ruin the effect he was endeavouring to create. The tiniest details are just as important as the big ones.

 

[Gig 'Em Mickey]

Whenever you get these kind of culturally penetrating moments, sooner or later, the penetration becomes so overwhelming that people get sick of it

I'm definitely tired of getting penetrated by Disney.

 

[xdan0920]

I'm definitely tired of getting penetrated by Disney.

Bravo.

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm sure there were many reasons why the Disney team chose to do what they're doing. Again, crazy lines are expected with new or popular attractions -- that's the theme park way. No, it's not fun to wait in a long line for a short ride and yes it may be super crowded but again, you're in a theme park and we willingly battle those things all the time. Plus we don't know all the details of the ride yet -- they'll be working on it for the next 2 years.

You are missing the point. Maelstrom IS a low capacity boat ride. That's a fact, not an opinion. From all the available information that isn't going to change. If they replaced the ride system with an omnimover or significantly expanded the show building then the ride could potentially be longer and have significantly more capacity. Unfortunately none of that is happening in the limited timeframe and budget. We don't know all of the details of what the show scenes will look like, but we have a pretty good idea what the layout of the ride will be (same as Maelstrom). The best we can hope for when it comes to the layout of the ride is the rumored switch to a single load/unload area which could potentially allow 1 additional small show scene and the use of the theater for expanding the queue (it's gonna need an expanded queue). That's still not getting to a reasonable capacity. There was also a rumor of them reversing the direction of the ride, but I still don't see how that expands capacity.

For reference here are the hourly ride capacities of some WDW attractions (per the Internet):

In EPCOT:
Maelstrom 900
Spaceship Earth 2,400
Soarin 1,600 (remember that Soarin is adding a 3rd theater bringing it up to I assume 2,400)

In MK:
HM and Pirates 3,200
Space Mt 2,000
Splash 1,200
Big Thunder 1,500
Under the Sea 2,200
Peter Pan 800
7DMT 1,650

TSMM 1,000 (soon to be 1,500 after the additional track opens).

Based on these numbers you can see that Maelstrom is a low capacity ride on par with Peter Pan or TSMM. The standby lines at TSMM have gotten so bad that they are adding another track and that's in a park with lower daily attendance than EPCOT. If you consider the popularity of Frozen and the crazy lines at the current M&G combined with the low capacity of the ride you can see this has the potential to be a problem. Peter Pan is at least in MK with so many other rides. Frozen Maelstrom is going to be one of 2 rides in world showcase.

How could this have been resolved? Completely gutting the Maelstrom show building and making a full scale, high capacity Frozen ride. But why bother to do that when they could just build the brand new Frozen ride in MK or even DHS. If they built a ride with capacity similar to HM or Pirates or at least LM in New Fantasyland it would make for a much more enjoyable guest experience.

Understand that I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom and put down a ride before it even opens. I have hope that the ride itself will have some good AAs and nice scenery. It has the potential to still be a nice ride, but it's too bad they didn't go all out for a once in a generation smash hit like Frozen is.

 

[Siren]

Isn't is possible that the new "Frozen" ride could open with Fast Pass + reservations and no stand by? Sort of like what they tested recently? That to me seems the only way to prevent continuous massive lines.

I really don't know what that was about but if Disney were to implement something like this permanently than I would definitely reconsider another vacation spot.

I'm definitely tired of getting penetrated by Disney.

Sigh. I'll remember next time to quote the article. Also, if you're so tired of Disney then just stop going.

 

[prberk]

Just curious... how long has it been since you have been to WDW? The lagoon for 20K has been gone for, at the very least, 5 years now.

I said the former lagoon, as in the space, which still would work like that. Obviously a real lagoon could not stay frozen outdoors in Florida. But the space of the former lagoon would work for that concept using some glasswork and effects that at once looked frozen and also gave a nod to the old lagoon. Wasn't sure what was under it, or behind it, so I postulated that the show building could be wherever it needed to be to work. My whole point was that it would be nice to find an effective place to put it in the MK. Even though the lagoon area was a little close to Tomorrowland, it was an idea. I also suggested replacing part of the circus area. Anyplace that would be reasonably close to Fantasyland or Cindy's castle was my though process.

 

[GoofGoof]

I said the former lagoon, as in the space, which still would work like that. Obviously a real lagoon could not stay frozen outdoors in Florida. But the space of the former lagoon would work for that concept using some glasswork and effects that at once looked frozen and also gave a nod to the old lagoon. Wasn't sure what was under it, or behind it, so I postulated that the show building could be wherever it needed to be to work. My whole point was that it would be nice to find an effective place to put it in the MK. Even though the lagoon area was a little close to Tomorrowland, it was an idea. I also suggested replacing part of the circus area. Anyplace that would be reasonably close to Fantasyland or Cindy's castle was my though process.

I think the Beast might have a problem with that since his castle is where the lagoon once stood

There is some space still behind LM that could be used if desired. They could also use the Speedway.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I said the former lagoon, as in the space, which still would work like that. Obviously a real lagoon could not stay frozen outdoors in Florida. But the space of the former lagoon would work for that concept using some glasswork and effects that at once looked frozen and also gave a nod to the old lagoon. Wasn't sure what was under it, or behind it, so I postulated that the show building could be wherever it needed to be to work. My whole point was that it would be nice to find an effective place to put it in the MK. Even though the lagoon area was a little close to Tomorrowland, it was an idea. I also suggested replacing part of the circus area. Anyplace that would be reasonably close to Fantasyland or Cindy's castle was my though process.

There is no place where the lagoon still exists in reality or empty space. What was 20K is now Belle, Beast Restaurant, Little Mermaid and 7DMT. AKA... the new Fantasyland.

 

[Gig 'Em Mickey]

Sigh. I'll remember next time to quote the article. Also, if you're so tired of Disney then just stop going.

Sigh. It's called a joke. And I'm pretty sure you did quote the article.

Look. If I didn't like it I wouldn't keep coming back.

But it is about to reach the point where the cost to go exceeds the perceived value that I get, I'll admit that.

 

[Siren]

Sigh. It's called a joke. And I'm pretty sure you did quote the article.

Look. If I didn't like it I wouldn't keep coming back.

But it is about to reach the point where the cost to go exceeds the perceived value that I get, I'll admit that.

Sigh. I know you were joking, lol. I'm glad you still like Disney -- and, just like you, I have my breaking point, too. Thankfully, I haven't reached that point, as yet.

 

[AMartin767]

Wasnt a big part of what made Disneyland/World amazing was the proper theming and putting things where they belong in an appropriate "land"? Its exactly what creates the fantasy effect. If it "doesnt bother you where they put it", I suggest visiting your local state fair or parking lot carnival because thats what you get when the designers dont care where things go.

At what point would disregard for theming start to affect you or your vacation because the man who created the wonderful parks we love so dearly didnt want so much as a "cowboy sauntering through Tomorrowland" to ruin the effect he was endeavouring to create. The tiniest details are just as important as the big ones.

This... Absolutely!

 

[RSoxNo1]

Anyone that thinks the Frozen ride won't be popular is delusional. It could be a steaming pile of crap and it will still generate ridiculous waits in it's first year. That doesn't make it the right decision.

 

[Bairstow]

How could this have been resolved? Completely gutting the Maelstrom show building and making a full scale, high capacity Frozen ride. But why bother to do that when they could just build the brand new Frozen ride in MK or even DHS. If they built a ride with capacity similar to HM or Pirates or at least LM in New Fantasyland it would make for a much more enjoyable guest experience.

First of all, are we absolutely certain that Disney isn't significantly expanding/reworking Maelstrom to make the Frozen version bigger? The rumor I've heard is that the current unload area will become both load/unload and the current load area and last 3 switchbacks in the queue will be a new show scene area. Assuming that's all, it's not going to be enough, but are we certain that's all?

Second, while Fantasyland is the most (if not the only) appropriate location thematically, the Magic Kingdom doesn't need any new rides right now, certainly that would boost attendance even further. If anything, that park needs some low-key, but high-capacity additions to relieve overcrowding.
It's the other 3 parks that need the Frozen bump, but MGM already has the "Summer Fun" and Wandering Oaken shop or whatever, and supposedly there are major expansion plans in the works involving Star Wars and Pixar, which are probably 8-9 years out, but still coming. Animal Kingdom would be an even worse thematic fit than the World Showcase, and that's saying something.

 

[lazyboy97o]

First of all, are we absolutely certain that Disney isn't significantly expanding/reworking Maelstrom to make the Frozen version bigger? The rumor I've heard is that the current unload area will become both load/unload and the current load area and last 3 switchbacks in the queue will be a new show scene area. Assuming that's all, it's not going to be enough, but are we certain that's all?

We're fairly certain given the amount of time designing the ride and the amount of time construction is expected to take.

 

[RSoxNo1]

First of all, are we absolutely certain that Disney isn't significantly expanding/reworking Maelstrom to make the Frozen version bigger? The rumor I've heard is that the current unload area will become both load/unload and the current load area and last 3 switchbacks in the queue will be a new show scene area. Assuming that's all, it's not going to be enough, but are we certain that's all?

Second, while Fantasyland is the most (if not the only) appropriate location thematically, the Magic Kingdom doesn't need any new rides right now, certainly that would boost attendance even further. If anything, that park needs some low-key, but high-capacity additions to relieve overcrowding.
It's the other 3 parks that need the Frozen bump, but MGM already has the "Summer Fun" and Wandering Oaken shop or whatever, and supposedly there are major expansion plans in the works involving Star Wars and Pixar, which are probably 8-9 years out, but still coming. Animal Kingdom would be an even worse thematic fit than the World Showcase, and that's saying something.

Magic Kingdom still could use another E-ticket. Make it high capacity, add in other dark rides to an additional Fantasyland expansion and make the heartbeat of WDW even better. I'm not denying for a minute that Epcot needs help. Soarin' Over the World will help, but Imagination should be where the focus is. If you want to spread out the crowds, re-do Maelstrom into something culturally relevant and potentially add a ride (or additional pavilion) elsewhere in World Showcase.