flynnibus deep thoughts about WDW - after nearly 10 years away

[DisneyFreak]

We did a Disney Cruise for the first time this past Thanksgiving. It was crazy expensive, but it was really nice. Quite a bit different than WDW, but no crowds and no buses made it really nice.

This is why I always recommend to people if you're going to do a Land/Sea package always go to the parks first and then the cruise. The cruise is a great way to wind down.

 

[flynnibus]

No one can comment on the stormalong bay sand bottom changes or not?

 

[DisneyFreak]

No one can comment on the stormalong bay sand bottom changes or not?

I always remember it having a partial sand bottom.

 

[flynnibus]

This is so true. There have been many times I go to the parks in a stellar mood and leave furious either because of guests being typical idiots or an operational experience that left a bad taste in my mouth

This is the part I don't think the 'new blood' gets. It didn't used to be this way. Disney's reputation was in its ability to create that utopia that seemed to defy 'normal'. It's what 'the bubble' really meant... not simply where you could see big plastic Disney figures or not. It was the place where things were DIFFERENT.

I think Disney is a victim of itself with the "Don't miss (anything)" marketing and the over planning. WDW outgrew "more options" and instead moved into "keeping up with the jones'". The rigidity and scareness of availability just compounds the impact.

It definitely feels different when I go by myself and just wish to hit a few high points. I mean when I went this time by myself, I only managed to do 3 rides. But I was effectively on a free ticket, and my only 'must do' was seeing HEA... so the 3 rides were just icing. So the waits, etc... rolled off me easier. But when I'm there paying top dollar on a limited schedule, and trying to entertain others (family).. the same environment is much more burdensome. That is an angle the "I go whenever I want..." crowd don't necessarily recognize as very different.

 

[Mickey5150]

Fantastic report. And sadly, I agree with most of your comments. I too was a child of the 80's and grew up staying at Deluxe resorts because with the Florida Resident discounts back then they were practically giving the rooms away. I'm now 45, make a very good salary, and I could not even think about staying at a Deluxe with how expensive they are.

Considering Disney didn't open a moderate resort until 1988 and a value until 1994 there weren't many options at WDW besides deluxe resorts.

 

[flynnibus]

Considering Disney didn't open a moderate resort until 1988 and a value until 1994 there weren't many options at WDW besides deluxe resorts.

At the time... options like the garden wing of the contemporary were cheaper... you had the camp grounds and disney Inn for the low end. When there was only one or two parks you didnt always goto the parks everyday. You also didnt have to worry about tickets being wasted. Non park options were more interesting because you were not competing for your limted park time and you were not so heavily influenced to buy 1:1 tickets for your stay.

Now the packaging and pricing drives the buying patterns to be 1:1 and do more more more at the parks. Honestly i cant believe disney hasnt fully gutted all non park activites besidesbthe water parks and kiddie activities at the hotels.

 

[Shouldigo12]

Ok, I'm going to start off by saying that there are absolutely things about WDW that should be criticized. Absurd pricing, long wait times, etc. All valid complaints. But...these are issues at theme parks everywhere. They're more extreme at WDW, yes, but these problems aren't unique to this park imo. Like for example you mentioned being frustrated at having to go across the park in order to ride rides with the lowest wait times because a lot of things had long waits. I have to do this all the time at Kings Island. And as for insane pricing: again, Disney is probably one of the worst offenders when it comes to this but it is far from the only theme park to demand an arm and a leg for a burger or a souvenir. Do you think maybe theme park vacations in general just aren't for you? Again, not saying at all your complaints aren't valid because they totally are. But some of these issues are problems with theme parks in general, not WDW specifically.

 

[flynnibus]

Ok, I'm going to start off by saying that there are absolutely things about WDW that should be criticized. Absurd pricing, long wait times, etc. All valid complaints. But...these are issues at theme parks everywhere. They're more extreme at WDW, yes, but these problems aren't unique to this park imo. Like for example you mentioned being frustrated at having to go across the park in order to ride rides with the lowest wait times because a lot of things had long waits. I have to do this all the time at Kings Island. And as for insane pricing: again, Disney is probably one of the worst offenders when it comes to this but it is far from the only theme park to demand an arm and a leg for a burger or a souvenir. Do you think maybe theme park vacations in general just aren't for you? Again, not saying at all your complaints aren't valid because they totally are. But some of these issues are problems with theme parks in general, not WDW specifically.

Disney defined the experience... not just played along with other theme parks. My comments aren’t as a theme park noob... I’ve been going to wdw for nearly 40 years, and have been to plenty of other parks. My last sea world and discovery cove experiences were also vastly different.

I also didn’t mention I also spent a half day at Uni Studios this trip too. My views are for me and my style... but this isn’t me stumbling into what wdw or other theme parks are.

When crowds and capacities are managed... you don’t need to queue hop so much when waits are more consistent for instance.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

This is ME! I get so bored sitting by a pool and if I'm at the beach you can bet I'm boogie boarding or ready to go. I love the hustle and bustle of a park. It's invigorating and is relaxing to me. The only time I remember being stressed in a park is when the dang ferry moved to slow. Haha I do spend time planning ahead and we just went this June and never waited more than 25 mins for anything as I don't like long waits. other than our fast passes and some meals we don't plan out ride order or every minute. I think I might get bored on a cruise. I am sure I would like the shows but apart from payong extra for excursions I don't think it would keep me occupied. I guess we all are different. I do love reading but I can do that any day of the year and with teenagers I have plenty of free time so for vacation I like to be on the go. I'm sure as I get older I'll have to slow down. I used to open and close a park and we only do that once or twice a trip now. But I really love being able to ride a coaster, watch a show, ride a water ride, be in a show, take my time at a table service, hug a character and so forth. Each day is a perfect mix of so many random things for me. I love how I am in a different place each day and even in one park the different lands can give me the feel of being different places. I am not knocking cruise life at all. I know people who love it so much. Just saying I know how you feel with loving the hustle and bustle. Now how to save so I can go back in 2020....

Yes, this sounds like how my husband and I like to vacation! We don't like beach/lake vacations and all the down time involved. Sitting at a beach is not for us. However, we love WDW with all it's different attractions, shows, parks,etc, etc.
I had to chuckle when you said , "I'm sure as I get older I'll have to slow down", because I am 68 and my husband is 71 and we STILL go full force while at Disney. I'll bet a little slower, but we love to keep active with different things each day. So don't count yourself out just because you get older - that never stopped us

 

[Shouldigo12]

Disney defined the experience... not just played along with other theme parks. My comments aren’t as a theme park noob... I’ve been going to wdw for nearly 40 years, and have been to plenty of other parks. My last sea world and discovery cove experiences were also vastly different.

I also didn’t mention I also spent a half day at Uni Studios this trip too. My views are for me and my style... but this isn’t me stumbling into what wdw or other theme parks are.

When crowds and capacities are managed... you don’t need to queue hop so much when waits are more consistent for instance.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you didn't know what you were doing or anything. I know you've been to WDW before. But going off your family's comments on why they didn't like the park, I was thinking maybe theme park vacations in general just aren't for you guys as a unit. Again, all your complaints are 100% valid but those are problems that could be applied to theme parks around the US, not just WDW. Just my two cents. If you don't agree that's fine, it is your family after all.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

beach tags (In nj you have to buy beach tags to sit on the beach. don't get me started)

Ha!

 

[flynnibus]

Again, all your complaints are 100% valid but those are problems that could be applied to theme parks around the US, not just WDW

I think this is a dismissive attitude like the one that says "well all theme parks are expensive..." -- without looking at the reasoning behind the outcome. Like the idea of 'price shadowing' where a business happily moves their prices up to be just behind the competition... because they know they can avoid taking the heat as long as they follow and don't lead the price surge. Humans love to look at things in comparison... and when 'everything is like that', people will start to believe it's justified or that it has to be that way... just by the nature of it being common... instead of challenging it.

The challenges around how scheduling and commitments are NOT common to all theme parks. Sure waits are... but when waits are more consistent, there is less motivation to try to 'optimize' your visiting pattern. You won't find entire websites dedicated to 'touring plans' for your local Cedar Fair park... because you can pretty much sum up your needs in a few sentences.

The ramp down of 'per day' costs doesn't hit till 5 days or more... the average park sees that break point at more like 3. You also aren't typically lead towards lodging that is 2x the going rate either... So yeah, the scenarios are very different at WDW.. and not just for scale.

 

[Shouldigo12]

I think this is a dismissive attitude like the one that says "well all theme parks are expensive..." -- without looking at the reasoning behind the outcome. Like the idea of 'price shadowing' where a business happily moves their prices up to be just behind the competition... because they know they can avoid taking the heat as long as they follow and don't lead the price surge. Humans love to look at things in comparison... and when 'everything is like that', people will start to believe it's justified or that it has to be that way... just by the nature of it being common... instead of challenging it.

The challenges around how scheduling and commitments are NOT common to all theme parks. Sure waits are... but when waits are more consistent, there is less motivation to try to 'optimize' your visiting pattern. You won't find entire websites dedicated to 'touring plans' for your local Cedar Fair park... because you can pretty much sum up your needs in a few sentences.

The ramp down of 'per day' costs doesn't hit till 5 days or more... the average park sees that break point at more like 3. You also aren't typically lead towards lodging that is 2x the going rate either... So yeah, the scenarios are very different at WDW.. and not just for scale.

I've already said I think your complaints about Disney are valid. Your complaints being valid doesn't change the fact that it's also the problem at other theme parks. And again, like I've already said, I acknowledge that the problem is worse at WDW. I wasn't looking to get into a debate on whether Disney pricing is extreme (again, it is) or if the long wait times are frustrating (again, they are). Maybe there aren't entire websites dedicated to efficient touring of Cedar Fair but I know my family wouldn't step foot in the park unless we had a rough plan of what rides to get on and when to make sure we got on the rides we want.
I don't have a "dismissive" attitude. It IS problem that the park is so expensive to go to. It IS a problem that you need to plan your days out so far in advance and that lines are long. My point was never to say these aren't legitimate issues just because they're also problems at other parks- and I'll repeat here just for clarity I know the problem is even worse at WDW than at other parks. My point was, you'll find these problems to some extent at all parks so maybe your family would be happier doing vacations that aren't theme parks. You even said in your own post they liked cruises better.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I think this is a dismissive attitude like the one that says "well all theme parks are expensive..." -- without looking at the reasoning behind the outcome. Like the idea of 'price shadowing' where a business happily moves their prices up to be just behind the competition... because they know they can avoid taking the heat as long as they follow and don't lead the price surge. Humans love to look at things in comparison... and when 'everything is like that', people will start to believe it's justified or that it has to be that way... just by the nature of it being common... instead of challenging it.

The challenges around how scheduling and commitments are NOT common to all theme parks. Sure waits are... but when waits are more consistent, there is less motivation to try to 'optimize' your visiting pattern.





The ramp down of 'per day' costs doesn't hit till 5 days or more... the average park sees that break point at more like 3.

But that's exactly what companies do, they follow each other ESPECIALLY in the "nickel and dime" scenario Eg. Airlines, banks ( can we say fees), cell phone companies too name a few

Now as far as "challenging" it??? folks here don't like when I say what the solution is. I do think Disney listens to John q. public a bit, unfortunately they listen to the shareholders more. The way to challenge that is to effect the bottom line.
It's like folks get all shocked and shaken when ***gasp*** Disney begins acting like the corporation it is.
I don't go to other theme parks so I can't say how the operate compared to Disney. I went to Universal pre Harry potter. It was ok and before that it was Coney Island in Brooklyn.

I don't think there is anyone who doesn't think the mouseworld is expensive